New or Used car - what should I buy?

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by 240glt

This is a timely conversation for me... my partner currently drives an Acura 1.7EL and as we are talking about co-habitating soon a new car might be in the works.... We're thinking about a BMW 325i wagon... never had a Beemer before and the honey doesn't like Volvos (silly boy) But I've always thought BMW's were quite a good car. We need a wagon with the 2 (soon to be 3) dogs

You want to stink up a brand new BMW with dogs? SHAME!

[240glt]

^ well one's a Chihuahua so it's really more like a 1/8 of a dog

It is nice to see some wagons come back on the market... for a while there practically no one made them.

If it was purely my decision I'd probably trade in both the Acura and my Toyota Tacoma for a 4runner, but a certain someone doesn't do so well with larger vehicles so it needs to be a car.

[DizzyEdge]

Also both my sisters have Mazda 3's (wagon and sedan) and both quite like them.

[GTING]

There sure is a lot of hate out there for VWs, I would like to say the opposite. I bought a new Golf back in January which has been nothing but a treat since the day I owned it. Granted it is brand new, but I have had no issues with electrical systems which everyone seems to rag on. My dad owned a Jetta (2002?) for a 3 years before he bought a minivan He had no issues with his car that you wouldn't expect from any vehicle (it is still in the faimly). VW is now the top seller of cars in the world and I don't think they would get there if all their cars were plagued with issues. I think that with any car you take a risk that it will turn out to be a lemon, but with regular scheduled maintenance almost any car should easily last you 200 000km.

ps. take what you see here with a grain of sailt, look at the cars and buy the lemonade books because everyone has an opinion about something. PM me if you want to know more about the Golf.

edit - I looked at and drove ever hatchback and the way I rated it based on what worked for me was 1. Golf 2. Mazda(close second) 3. Honda civic 4. the rest not worth mentioning

[polishavenger]

In the last two years I have bought two cars and underwent the same process. At first I looked at used, but the financing rate sucks ass, while new was offering 0% or very near to it (0.9%), and used have little to no warranty. First car I bought was the Honda Fit for my mom, and now I've inherited it since she moved to Europe. Its a fantastic car, has seat folding options that are not offered on any other car, burns next to no gas, drives great as a standardard (I got from Winnipeg to calgary in 9.5 hours) and has honda quality. I was selling it for a while, but then opted to keep it for myself.

The second car was a 2009 mazda 3 sport luxury edition (we couldnt stand the smiley face of the 2010). We narrowed it down to the subaru impreza and mazda 3 at first. Subaru was super fun to drive, but you get very little in bling and accessories for the money. Not really worth it unless you really want the performance or are willing to shell out the dough for the WRX. The Mazda 3 came fully loaded, performs respectfully, and all for $9,000 less than an entry level subaru.

[Me&You]

Originally Posted by 240glt

^^ for the love of god stay away from Audi. It's like saying "I love my VW, but I wish it had more electrical problems"

They are fun to drive though

I had one a couple years back for ~10k trouble free km. The issue to watch out for on the RS4 is carbon build up and

[Me&You]

Wooster - I'm usually a BIG fan of slightly used cars and letting someone else take the initial hit of depreciation. In your case though, I'd make a list of 'wants' and make a list of any new cars that satisfy them. From there, I'd keep an eye on the paper and manufacturer's websites for a low-interest closed-end lease program. Many of these manufacturers will have a .9-3.9% lease rate, and while it's circumvented, it's "cheap money". The closed end program is advantageous for several reasons -

The residual/end of term value is the responsibility of the lessor. If the market value is lower than the end of term value, you hand them the keys and the lessor eats the deficiency.

If the market value of your car is higher than the end of term value, you can buy it out and pocket any equity.

You get to drive a new car, with full warranty.

[Wooster]

^ yeah a slightly used vehicle is a good way to go usually. Just unsure of the financing options because paying cash wouldn't be possible.

Leasing a new car is certainly an option too. I always used to think, why would I want to OWN a depreciating asset.

What do you guys think if the Golf City? It seems a bit gutless at only 115 hp, but seems a good value at MSRP $15,300.

[SHOFEAR]

Speaking of Audi....

The "family" car at the moment is a 2009 Audi A3 3.2. It's simply awesome. It's not as fun to drive as my toy, but it's just so damn practical. It's a great daily driver for the gf and fantastic for a ski trip. I'd of loved an A4 Wagon...maybe in a few years.


I'd recommend one to anybody.

[Me&You]

Originally Posted by Wooster

^ yeah a slightly used vehicle is a good way to go usually. Just unsure of the financing options because paying cash wouldn't be possible.

Leasing a new car is certainly an option too. I always used to think, why would I want to OWN a depreciating asset.

What do you guys think if the Golf City? It seems a bit gutless at only 115 hp, but seems a good value at MSRP $15,300.

The "City" edition VWs usually offer a good bang-for-the-buck and if it meets all your other requirements, I think it should be considered.

You make a great point about cars being a depreciating asset that I'd meant to address in my earlier post. If you can finance that depreciation for next to nothing, you'd be silly not to. Many of the leases on the types of cars you're looking at require very little down as well. Like you mentioned, it's a much better use of money to have it in your pocket while saving for a down payment and let someone else (the manufacturer) finance the loss on the car...

I don't know enough about your exact needs to recommend a car, but I can strongly recommend the method you use to attain it.

[MichaelS]

Perhaps something a bit different that might fit most of your list, a used Lexus IS 300 Sportcross.

http://daddytypes.com/archive/lexus_...sportcross.jpg

I'm not entirely sure if you could get the Sportcross with a manual, some niggling memory of an article in Car and Driver I read years ago has me leaning to no. But, it comes with the triptonic shifting on the wheel as standard with the Automatic (if you are into those things).

I currently drive a 2002 IS 300 (regular sedan) with a manual transmission. I love it, it is such a fun, tight car. I have owned it for about a year, and have had zero problems with it.

My one biggest complaint about it. It is a RWD, which I love, except it isn't very heavy so in our winters it isn't the most practical. I have a decent set of winter tires, but I think this winter I am actually going to put some sand bags in the trunk, just to help that much more.


My car before this was a '97 Audi A4. I had a few issues with it (alternator mostly) but it was unstoppable in the winter with it's Quattro AWD. The only reason I went with the Lexus when I came back to Canada instead of another Audi was because the Audi's in my price range were ugly! (2002-2007 A4's). I love the new model Audi's now though, and in a few years time can easily see myself trading in the Lexus for one of them.

Lexus' tend to be bullet proof too. My mom drives a '98 GS 400 that just recently rolled over 490,000 kms on the odometer. Besides scheduled replacement of belts, brakes, etc.. she has had no major problems with it.

[Me&You]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

Perhaps something a bit different that might fit most of your list, a used Lexus IS 300 Sportcross.

...

The IS', and Lexus' (Lexi?) in general are very reliable cars, but I'd have a tough time recommending a near-10 year old car for someone in Wooster's shoes. If you knew me, you'd know that I'm usually the first to recommend the "fun car" and I truly wish everyone drove Porsches

But in Wooster's case, he's got a home to save for, a wedding to save for and (sounds like) a child coming sooner than later. The smart move in his case is to get as little grief as possible from a vehicle while he has this other stuff on his plate... That means low upfront costs, low payments, low (if any) maintenance costs and little or no concern for depreciation. The best way to achieve this is to get a new car, with full warranty on a closed-end lease... Then next time, he can get the Porsche

[jeffwhit]

Mayormobile.

[Me&You]

Originally Posted by jeffwhit

Mayormobile.

That's what the Porsche is for

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Leasing a new car is certainly an option too. I always used to think, why would I want to OWN a depreciating asset.

Well, to be honest you're paying the depreciation regardless (someone always is). I've leased a few times and it feels great, until you realize that you're just plowing money into depreciation for pretty much the entire lease. At the end you have the buy-out scenario which sometimes works in your favour and sometimes does not. Either way, you've paid the depreciation, don't kid yourself.

We had to stop leasing because when you put 40,000+ km/year on vehicles, leases get damned expensive, damned quick. Probably less of an issue for most people who don't live their weekends on the highways.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Wooster

My last car that I owned was actually an 87 accord, which was a great little car.

Such a great car! I learned to drive on that (and a crappy old Ford Ranger, and Ford Windstar lol)

I know people think Camry's (Kanmuri ) are terribly boring but my family has become "a Camry family". I have the old '93 LE (bought used) and my parents have a '97 LE (bought used) and 2009 XLE (new).

My Camry has well over 350k kms! It's lasted many a Southern Ontario/Buffalo winter and never let me down driving across the U.S. and Canada to reach Calgary in early '09. Talk about longevity and reliability!

[Wooster]

what do you think about perhaps buying a 2007 or so Audi A3. There doesn't seem to be much inventory of used A3s out there - but it seems it could be had for about $22,000 with about 70,000km on it. Could be financed through one way or another. This is a car I really like, and has the 4 doors. Having a hard time finding manual transmissions though. Smart or dumb idea?

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by Me&You

But in Wooster's case, he's got a home to save for, a wedding to save for and (sounds like) a child coming sooner than later. The smart move in his case is to get as little grief as possible from a vehicle while he has this other stuff on his plate... That means low upfront costs, low payments, low (if any) maintenance costs and little or no concern for depreciation. The best way to achieve this is to get a new car, with full warranty on a closed-end lease... Then next time, he can get the Porsche

Hence why an older used Lexus. They can be had for a decent bargain, not sure about depreciation but if he plans to hold on to it for at least 5 years, probably not a bid deal, and like I said they are damn near bullet proof so there would be little to no maintenance costs.

And as for the '87 Accord, my first car was an '88 Accord Coupe, manual transmission (of course). I put a sweet set of 15" rims on it in high school, and it looked awesome. Loved that car. Unfortunately, in University, the rims lead to it being stolen . The RCMP found it sitting on its brake discs and drums out in Beaumeant, and with over 330,000 kms, the insurance company wrote it off. Boourns.

And to reply to Wooster, I think an A3 would be a cool car. I test drove one with a friend a few years ago, it was the 2.0 engine and it had plenty of zip for some fun, plus looked to be a pretty practical car in terms of space. Well sort or pracitcal. The actual trunk isn't as large as you would get in an A4 Avant, or probably even in a Mazda 3 hatchback. You could easily fit 3-4 bags of groceries in it, but if you were going camping for the weekend, you would be hard pressed to fit everthing behind the back seat.

[floobie]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

Take it from me, don't buy a VW that's off warranty. Chances are you'll be getting to you know your service dealer anyway even if you buy new, but atleast you'll be covered. Great cars to drive, but they become frustrating to own.

Some other cars I would look into in that price range include the Mazda 3 (or the new 2 if you want to save some money), Subaru Impreza (WRX or STI if you really want to have fun) and the new Ford Focus/Fiesta (wait for 2011 Focus though as they are still selling the old one). Hyundas are a great value these days as well, and are pretty damn reliable now. The new "fluidic sculpture" design language is a little hit or miss I think....but if you're willing to wait a bit, the new Elantra should be a pretty great car for the price. The Volvo c30 sure is a looker as well....I know you've mentioned liking that one.

You might want to check out sites like http://www.truedelta.com/ for reliability....and places like http://www.autoblog.com/ and http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/ for other news about cars these days.

Mark IV VWs were notoriously unreliable, but as far as I know they've since improved substantially. I wouldn't go for a City Golf. They're basically mark IV Golfs with a bit of a face lift. I'd definitely look towards other brands before considering one.

If you want a VW, I'd be looking at a lightly used mk V Golf...er Rabbit (2006-2009, I think), or a new mk VI.

As to the original question... difficult to say. So far I've owned exactly one new car and one used car. I think new cars bring with them a lot of "subjective" benefits, but used cars are probably almost always a better financial decision in the long term.

If you want a hatchback that's new but still pretty cheap, I'd look into the new Ford Fiesta hatchbacks. They're pretty awesome. I would definitely get one if I didn't have my Civic. Decent power, excellent chassis, very fuel efficient, and very efficient use of space. With a manual transmission, it would be a blast to drive. The "Euro" Fords have built quite a reputation of being really fun, communicative cars to drive.

If you want an awesome used deal, a slightly used Ford Focus is also a great deal. Know that you'll effectively be buying a 10+ year old platform, but they're still solid, cheap, and entertaining cars.

Since Audi came up... they're definitely great cars. My parents have been driving them exclusively for about 15 years now. As far as pure driving pleasure goes, they still can't quite match BMW. RWD and a 50/50 weight distribution really does go a long way. But, Audi still make a damn entertaining car. Best interiors in the business, AWD is really nice to have in Calgary, and excellent powertrains. Their 2.0T engine is soooooo awesome. 211 hp, pissloads of torque all over the rev range, sips gas if you have any idea what you're doing, buttery smooth, sounds great... awesome, awesome engine. And their DSG transmissions are pretty much the only automatic transmission I'd consider trading for a manual.

If you're looking at an A3, though... just get a VW GTI. Same chassis, same engine, same transmissions, still an awesome interior with loads of standard options, but it costs quite a lot less. This holds true for any GTI newer than 2006.

[Calgarian]

I always try to convince people to buy a car that's 2-4 years old. Usually they will still be under warranty, won't have too many km, and will come with a lot of features that might put a new car out of reach.

I bought a Mazda 6GT last year and I am thoroughly satisfied with it so far. The only thing I'm not too big of a fan of is the clutch. I paid $17 000 (plus taxes and interest from financing), and it had about 70 000kmn on it. Since I live downtown and walk to work, I wasn't too concerned about the kms on it, and have only put 18 000km on it in 18 months. When I want to drive a car I want something with some power and torque. I don't see the point of driving if you can't have some fun. My car has about 200hp and 180-200lb-ft of torque, so when you want to get around someone going too slow on Deerfoot or the highway, it's no problem.

I do see what people mean about the rust problems, I have a rock chip on the roof above the windshield that has already started rusting to the point where the paint is flaking.

My Car.