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View Poll Results: Should cyclist be Licensed?
No 15 83.33%
Yes 3 16.67%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2009, 4:42 AM
FairHamilton FairHamilton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
??

You can be under multiple categories (drinking and at fault, drinking and on a rural road, at fault and on a rural road and drinking)
You are correct, but that's not what you posted. There is an inferences, but you should really include that as part of your post.
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  #42  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2009, 5:22 AM
llamaorama llamaorama is offline
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right, you'd need to present the alcohol statistic separately by at least making a comment. Putting it in directly is misrepresenting the data in more than one way. Ideally you'd use some kind of two-columned list that broke down each category by how much alcohol played a role.
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  #43  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2009, 12:38 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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Each statistic is separate, and each was on its own line. How much clearer could it be?

Did you guys see this:

We all lose when cars battle bikes

September 16, 2009
SCOTT THOMPSON
The Hamilton Spectator
(Sep 16, 2009)


On most occasions when a car is up against a bicycle, the car wins. It's simple physics.

Yet we are seeing this type of battle take place daily on the streets of Canada's cities. Why?

It seems like suicide for a cyclist to hang on to the side of a moving car while it is travelling down the street. It seems silly to weave in and out of moving traffic to advance your agenda or run a stop light to do the same.

Yet, when a bicyclist is injured or killed, even by his or her own negligence, it is most often the driver of the car that is chastised.

In Toronto, you see confrontations between drivers and cyclists all the time. Can Hamilton be far behind?

Of course, there are lots of examples of bad behaviour on the part of both drivers and cyclists. I'm not trying to lay blame here. What I'm trying to do is get both these parties on the same page.

We saw evidence of this lack of respect recently in Toronto when a bicycle courier was killed in what seems to have been an escalating road-rage type of incident. The man died after falling from the side of a car he was trying to hang on to.

We found out after initial reports that this case is a little more complicated than just another Toronto motorist running over a courier. But that didn't stop a protest on Bloor Street that saw traffic and business slowed while some cyclists lay in the roadway in memory of their fallen colleague. It was touching but I'm not sure it was very safe.

I am an avid cyclist and have been since I was a kid. But there are some out there that with an "us versus them" mentality.

It shouldn't be. It can't be.

Some people are on a mad dash to get rid of the car and let the bike take over.

We have to come up with a new attitude that introduces the bike back into a Canadian society that has become dependent on the car.

You can't just start making plans that only include bicycles. We live in Canada where for five months of the year there is snow and slush on the road. Car traffic is a reality.

One that needs changing? Perhaps. But we can't ignore the obvious.

Another example of this is the ongoing attitude at Hamilton City Hall to "bike lane" a good portion of the Hammer. I am all for adding more bike lanes as I'm sure most of Hamilton is. But you can't do it by eliminating the car or car lanes. That is simply not realistic.

Recently CHML's Bill Kelly had a debate on his show in which politicians and business people met to talk about Dundurn Street South, where bike lanes are being installed at the expense of public parking.

The problem is some parking will have to be removed in order to accommodate the new bike lane. This pushes traffic parking onto adjacent side streets and away from small businesses.

Side streets become jammed, making them unsafe for kids while would-be customers of the businesses along Dundurn Street have no place left to park.

This is another example of a great idea that got lost because not everyone was involved in the process. One merchant said on CHML that it was the first time he has seen any discussion on the issue, asking why he wasn't consulted first.

It seems we are listening to the cyclists ... but no one else.

In fact, what we need to come up with is a plan that suits all or most of Hamilton, not just one segment. It's Canada, not Europe. That means trying to introduce bike lanes by educating everyone and finding the best solution -- not by eliminating one to satisfy the other.

Bike lanes should be built in addition to existing traffic lanes, not by sacrificing them. New roadways should be built to accommodate all kinds of traffic from bikes to pedestrians to vehicular.

Where space is limited, such as downtown, we have to brainstorm with all parties to come up with a solution that blends the roadway for cars with other types of traffic. Some people have suggested better use of alleys or even sidewalk sharing. There is no one solution that will work in all areas. That's why discussion is needed.

The Canadian reality is both must get along as neither one is going away any time soon.

The competition between the cyclist and the car has to stop. No one wins.
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  #44  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2009, 12:47 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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I don't even know where to begin with this article... for a guy who has been cycling his whole life, he certainly has a twisted view of reality:

"You can't just start making plans that only include bicycles."
"It seems we are listening to the cyclists ... but no one else."
"In fact, what we need to come up with is a plan that suits all or most of Hamilton, not just one segment."

When it comes to road construction, we have been suiting one segment exclusively for 50 years - motor vehicles. Changing some vehicular lanes into bike lanes is an attempt to return some balance to a system that is horribly imbalanced right now.

"sidewalk sharing"? Really?

"Side streets become jammed, making them unsafe for kids" - I'd like to see ONE spot where bike lane installations caused traffic jams on side streets.

The author may have been an "avid cyclist" since he was a kid, but I'll bet he's never used his bike for anything other than recreational trail riding. That does not mean he is an unbiased observer as his claim makes him out to be.
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  #45  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2009, 4:58 PM
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Jon Dalton Jon Dalton is offline
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Shorter version:
Quote:
We all lose when cars battle bikes

September 16, 2009
SCOTT THOMPSON
The Hamilton Spectator
(Sep 16, 2009)


There's a big problem. It's everyone's fault. The solution is to do nothing.
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  #46  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2009, 2:12 AM
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The article suggests all new roads should be built for multi-use: cars, bikes, pedestrians. This is a great idea, but unfortunately if a road is designed for cars to go 60km/h or above, it cannot be safely used by cyclists without a curb between the lanes. The majority of cars go 10-15km/h over the speed limit, so a 60km/h street is actually a 70-75km/h street.

Should a vehicle going 20-30km/h be expected to share a road with a vehicle that is going 70-75km/h and weighs many times more? Sounds like suicide. Put a curb in between the road and the bike lanes. Many drivers drift into the bike lane or worse yet, ignore it all together.
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  #47  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2009, 1:20 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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this isn't CRAYZEE EUROPE, we can't do that. it snows sometimes in hamilton.
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  #48  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2009, 3:00 PM
highwater highwater is offline
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Yeah. It never snows in Denmark. Never.
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  #49  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2009, 5:04 PM
adam adam is offline
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Something I was surprised about was how the cycling lanes in the video were 2-way with kids and adults and nobody worrying about collisions. Even intersections weren't a problem - no lights required... We have a lot to learn from that infrastructure.
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