MARTA to face drastic cuts after bill stalls

[gttx]

Originally Posted by MichaelM.

Like I said, I witnessed the uptick in crime at Perimeter first hand. I dont need the stats - I was there and saw it myself.

Claiming that we have the burden of proof simply because you spoke first is idiotic. Neither side can accurately claim to "know" whether MARTA and crime share a causal relationship without statistics. First-hand experience is far from an objective standard...especially when your eye-witness account of the 1984 "overnight" changing of Lenox Mall occurred when you were 2.

Citing crime statistics from suburban areas not served by MARTA, in order to draw a comparison with those which are, seems like a perfectly logical approach. Sure, other things could have cause or deterred crime, but those same things are probably also in play near transit stations. Robust statistical models are capable of controlling for things like that, and if anyone has an accurate source of raw data (who knows, maybe you do), I'd be happy to run some numbers with SPSS. Spatial data organized by block group or census tract would be probably be more interesting, though, and I would put together an analysis in GIS if someone could direct me to a good data source (other than ARC, which I don't think publishes crime statistics).

Should I close with some other "eye witness" accounts, since that appears to be the modus operandi? Midtown is beautiful, fun, and booming like crazy. Buckhead is becoming the epicenter of high-wealth individuals and corporations in the city. Decatur is trendy and still very successful with both the younger and older generation. The High Museum is one of the best of its kind in the southeast, maybe even the country. North Avenue serves one of the country's best public schools, which has undoubtedly contributed substantially to the growth and success of the city, as well as one of the country's tallest office buildings. The airport is the busiest and one of the largest in the world, and probably is the real economic engine of the city.

What do they all have in common? A MARTA station.

[jew4life4948]

What about APS student who depend on MARTA for school?

And even a good chunk of Woodward students ride the train in from Alpharetta.

And even those student who commute to GSU.

Hold up wait a minute!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[scpatl4now]

The point is that the goons under the Gold Dome will only figure out something is wrong when their cash from Atlanta is cut off. How long has federal money been sitting waiting for them to get off their fat azzes to approve the line to Lovejoy. They would much rather fight over red herrings like Stem Cell adoption (its almost too stupid to fathom) and making the DOT more susceptible to cronyism by eliminating it and letting The governor, speaker, and leader of the senate decide. Its laughable!! We have to be the national laughing stock. Every business association wanted something out of this group for transportation and got nothing...and my guess is when it comes time for some reelection cash requests for some of these guys, they will come up short...way short. I can only hope. I think they really f_cked up this time. Oh, and the Governor saying he was just hearing about the MARTA situation??? I guess its hard to hear with your head up your azz. Ok...thats my rant, not that it will do any good

[MichaelM.]

MARTA drastically changed Perimeter, like it or not. I worked there that summer, and I saw it happen before my eyes. I could care less if you believe me, because from the strong resistance MARTA has recieved since its inception up until the recent Gwinnett vote, I am obviously not in the minority. You can right it off the resistance on racist intentions like most of the cowards do, or you can look for justified reasons like not wanting to get mugged in the mall parking lot.

Either way, your precious MARTA has gone no where in almost a decade, and it looks like its heading down the tubes. If they do cancel service on Friday, I will personally do a crime study to compare the non-service days to the service days.

Its also clear that no one spent a lot of time at Perimeter that summer, the change was drastic and immediate, and you had to be blind, senile or crazy to not realize what was to blame.

If I only had the time to dig up crime stats from 13 years ago, I could prove it, but I have a life and have better things to worry about.

I will not respond to any more posts, because every response is just stupid (racially biased? since I never mentioned my opinions on race, not sure where this is coming from), or refuses to address the bulk of my argument. If you dont agree with me, fine, but move on and defend MARTA to someone who cares.

[scpatl4now]

you know...if you came up with some hard numerical data, you'd not only prove your point...but you'd stop all accusations. I think the request was made right after the first post. The "I just know" answer really does not cut it when we all have access to tremendous amounts of real data. People in this forum expect you to be able to back up what you say...no condemnation...just seems if you are right there should be a ton of data out there to back you up. Take some time and gather it...if its there, then you win.

[DonTallPaul]

If I only had the time to dig up crime stats from 13 years ago, I could prove it, but I have a life and have better things to worry about.

Yes, yes, we're all impressed at your massive social life that you registered for a forum to argue about MARTAs effect on crime based purely on your observations. Please, do us all the favor and stick to your word not to respond. In, fact, find something better to do even if you really don't (which I suspect is the case). We'll all be better for it.

[PremierAtlanta]

Originally Posted by MichaelM.

Are any of the people that are supporting MARTA on here native Atlantans?

I am a native and have lived here since my birth in 1982.

My parents have told me what happened to Lenox Mall when MARTA was brought through in 1984 - crime spiked and the mall became a haven for thugs and teenagers from the south side that would ride up to the mall to hang out and not buy anything. The mall almost went under - thank god a new mangement company stepped in to increase security and keep things under control. But there was no doubt - a criminal element moved in the same time as MARTA.

I remember what happened to Perimeter in 1996 when the Dunwoody Marta Station opened - the same exact thing. Spikes in petty crimes, hoodlums of teens running around (I was a teen then so I especially noticed), thuggish behavior. Perimeter was changed forever - for the worse - because of Marta. I was in Dunwoody at the Best Buy at 9:30 at night a couple of weeks ago when a panhandler asked me for money as he waited outside the Best Buy... in Dunwoody... across the street from MARTA - now how the heck you think he got there?

Why do you think a cop has to sit outside of the Perimeter Point Movie theater? Easy - the Sandy Springs Marta Station.

A friend of mine used to live in Alpharetta off Kimball bridge within walking distance of the Mansell Bus station - she noticed after it was built a signifigant increase in crime in her neighborhood.

Of course, there are success stories, like Lindbergh Center, but mostly these exmaples explain why many native Atlantans are so opposed to MARTA - because they saw the criminal element it brings and how it drastically altered Perimeter, Lenox, and to a lesser extent Alpharetta, right before thier eyes.

How could this be solved? Removal of mass transit - which I do not support. Atlanta needs MARTA.

What I support is a zone fare system for MARTA. That way if you want to ride from Collie Park to Dunwoody to chill at the mall, break into some cars, or beg for some money - your going to have to pay for it - making it less likely to happen.

No other system besides NYC operates like Marta with a single fare. Washington, D.C. uses a zone fare system, and there are few comlpaints from the wealthy suburb Alexandria, VA about criminal elements becuase the zone fare system prevents them from moving in.

Of course people argued that MARTA is safe and showed stats to prove it was in line with other systems in terms of safety, but refused to acknoledge a huge factor - all those systems use zone fare.

But why does Dr. Scott, CEO, refuse this option? Im not sure, but I have an idea - she has racist intentions. She knows most people who ride MARTA are black and she does not want them to be denied the right to ride wherever they want all over the city for one price. Justified? You decide - but all I know is that she refuses to discuss an option that would save MARTA.

I am a native Atlantan. I have been here since my birth in 1973 at Northside Hospital. I grew up in Dunwoody of Fulton County. I can speak firsthand in saying that you are totally incorrect. I'm not going in specifics of where you, and thereby your parents, are wrong. I pains me to read your comments. I am also amused at middle class people who try to act all superior. Now it's always tacky to speak publicly of ones wealth but I wager you can be easy sat down. My advice to you, take it down considerably. You reads tell of your true upbringing...regardless of how others have skirted over the truth. I would even go as far as to guess that you have never even lived in Alpharetta.

Lenox Square Mall was properous before and after Marta's arrival. Now, I am female and slight in stature and I have never feared shopping at Lenox since Marta came to Lenox or Perimeter. I'm not a big mall walker. If there are things that I desire, the manager of the store calls me directly and I have the items ready for my convenience. I have however gone to both malls (I have a teenaged daughter, who is a fashionista much like myself) and never once have I felt in fear of those who may have travelled to the mall via Marta. For heavens sake I have worn full length fur coats to Lenox and have never been accousted. My good fortune have been through blessings from God as crime can and does happen anywhere.

I am most grieved by the inaction of the state legislature. My husband employs more than 100 people in the metro area. Some of them who rely on Marta. Cuts in service will impact even us...people who never take Marta....but not because we fear it. This will not only impact the lowly people you speak of but it affects the hundreds of thousands of hardworking decent people of all colors, genders, ages, sexual orientations or nationalities who depend on Marta for day to day activities.

You, my friend, are no representative of the true genteel southern sensibility that I know my upbringing to has enstilled in me.

[briantech]

Originally Posted by MichaelM.

Are any of the people that are supporting MARTA on here native Atlantans?

I am a native and have lived here since my birth in 1982.

My parents have told me what happened to Lenox Mall when MARTA was brought through in 1984 - crime spiked and the mall became a haven for thugs and teenagers from the south side that would ride up to the mall to hang out and not buy anything. The mall almost went under - thank god a new mangement company stepped in to increase security and keep things under control. But there was no doubt - a criminal element moved in the same time as MARTA.

I remember what happened to Perimeter in 1996 when the Dunwoody Marta Station opened - the same exact thing. Spikes in petty crimes, hoodlums of teens running around (I was a teen then so I especially noticed), thuggish behavior. Perimeter was changed forever - for the worse - because of Marta. I was in Dunwoody at the Best Buy at 9:30 at night a couple of weeks ago when a panhandler asked me for money as he waited outside the Best Buy... in Dunwoody... across the street from MARTA - now how the heck you think he got there?

Why do you think a cop has to sit outside of the Perimeter Point Movie theater? Easy - the Sandy Springs Marta Station.

A friend of mine used to live in Alpharetta off Kimball bridge within walking distance of the Mansell Bus station - she noticed after it was built a signifigant increase in crime in her neighborhood.

Of course, there are success stories, like Lindbergh Center, but mostly these exmaples explain why many native Atlantans are so opposed to MARTA - because they saw the criminal element it brings and how it drastically altered Perimeter, Lenox, and to a lesser extent Alpharetta, right before thier eyes.

How could this be solved? Removal of mass transit - which I do not support. Atlanta needs MARTA.

What I support is a zone fare system for MARTA. That way if you want to ride from Collie Park to Dunwoody to chill at the mall, break into some cars, or beg for some money - your going to have to pay for it - making it less likely to happen.

No other system besides NYC operates like Marta with a single fare. Washington, D.C. uses a zone fare system, and there are few comlpaints from the wealthy suburb Alexandria, VA about criminal elements becuase the zone fare system prevents them from moving in.

Of course people argued that MARTA is safe and showed stats to prove it was in line with other systems in terms of safety, but refused to acknoledge a huge factor - all those systems use zone fare.

But why does Dr. Scott, CEO, refuse this option? Im not sure, but I have an idea - she has racist intentions. She knows most people who ride MARTA are black and she does not want them to be denied the right to ride wherever they want all over the city for one price. Justified? You decide - but all I know is that she refuses to discuss an option that would save MARTA.

For every one panhandler or petty thief that takes marta, there are 1000 lower income workers taking marta to those exact same neighborhoods to work in your starbucks, clean your clothes, sweep your office floors, pick up your trash, work at your taco bell, etc etc.

If we're going to be racist (or rather, class-ist) lets just go ahead and get it out in the open. Public transportation is necessary because the majority of the working class is low income blue collar workers who provide the majority of the services that the middle and upper class takes for granted. You cut off public transportation, you cut off your source to cheap minimum wage labor. Not exactly the best way to cut costs and increase economic growth.

[mhays]

Anytime someone tries to use "my own eyes" as proof of broader trends, it shows how uneducated that person is. Anecdotal information is colorful, and it makes a strong impression on the people directly involved, but it's the opposite of objective.

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by MichaelM.

MARTA drastically changed Perimeter, like it or not. I worked there that summer, and I saw it happen before my eyes. I could care less if you believe me, because from the strong resistance MARTA has recieved since its inception up until the recent Gwinnett vote, I am obviously not in the minority. You can right it off the resistance on racist intentions like most of the cowards do, or you can look for justified reasons like not wanting to get mugged in the mall parking lot.

Either way, your precious MARTA has gone no where in almost a decade, and it looks like its heading down the tubes. If they do cancel service on Friday, I will personally do a crime study to compare the non-service days to the service days.

Its also clear that no one spent a lot of time at Perimeter that summer, the change was drastic and immediate, and you had to be blind, senile or crazy to not realize what was to blame.

If I only had the time to dig up crime stats from 13 years ago, I could prove it, but I have a life and have better things to worry about.

I will not respond to any more posts, because every response is just stupid (racially biased? since I never mentioned my opinions on race, not sure where this is coming from), or refuses to address the bulk of my argument. If you dont agree with me, fine, but move on and defend MARTA to someone who cares.

if you're niave enough to think your 'zone fare' position statement isn't racially biased simply because you didn't attach the word 'race' to it, you're also not likely informed or open minded enough to understand why it is racially biased. it's sad, but it is what it is.

you want a zone based fare system because you believe it will keep residents of 'collie park' out of dunwoody, we all know the contrast of race demographics between college park and dunwoody, don't play the folks on this forum for stupid, your idea is racially biased buddy.

you are also WAAAAAY underestimating the white teenager angst of atlanta's northern suburbs. trust me, i saw it with my own eyes in print in the AJC, a large chunk of car break in's, petty crime and even a growing percentage of home robberies in the northern suburbs are carried out by white kids roughly 10 years younger than you, who went to the same schools as you, who live in the same neighborhoods as you. i guess they're angry because of marta, and therefore, marta made them do it, right?

again, your inference that kids from college park are exclusive perpetrators is racially biased.

[tdawg]

Wow, what a tool this MichaelM. is. Sad, really.

[SAV]

Everyone on this forum needs to at least call the govener's office and ask him why will he let us sit another 2-3 yrs without any transit solutions instead of just having a special session. Didn't he have one for gay marriage. I can't believe he doesn't think this issue is worth more attention. the state government should not get away with this.

[cybele]

The only thing I remember changing at Lenox after MARTA came in was that the food court and the movie theaters got pretty rowdy. Well, so what? As someone said, that's the price you pay for living in an urban area these days.

The last time I checked, this was still a free country. If you're the type who thinks you're automatically entitled to watch movies in a theater where there's no loud talking and running around and throwing stuff, there's no law that says you can't go somewhere else more to your liking.

[scpatl4now]

I found it at least a little heartening that in the AJC today that business associations are encouraging their members not to vote for any legislative member who opposed the regional sales tax initiative (front page of the business section...now in the combined A section). Also there wasn't a single positive comment about how they squandered the session with all the garbage that got passed. Sonny Perdue is an idiot, not a leader, and Cagle...he might as well forget being governor...this legislative session doomed his chances

[Snakebit]

Originally Posted by MichaelM.

MARTA drastically changed Perimeter, like it or not. I worked there that summer, and I saw it happen before my eyes. I could care less if you believe me, because from the strong resistance MARTA has recieved since its inception up until the recent Gwinnett vote, I am obviously not in the minority. You can right it off the resistance on racist intentions like most of the cowards do, or you can look for justified reasons like not wanting to get mugged in the mall parking lot.

Either way, your precious MARTA has gone no where in almost a decade, and it looks like its heading down the tubes. If they do cancel service on Friday, I will personally do a crime study to compare the non-service days to the service days.

Its also clear that no one spent a lot of time at Perimeter that summer, the change was drastic and immediate, and you had to be blind, senile or crazy to not realize what was to blame.

If I only had the time to dig up crime stats from 13 years ago, I could prove it, but I have a life and have better things to worry about.

I will not respond to any more posts, because every response is just stupid (racially biased? since I never mentioned my opinions on race, not sure where this is coming from), or refuses to address the bulk of my argument. If you dont agree with me, fine, but move on and defend MARTA to someone who cares.

So if Marta had such a negative impact, why has their been a complete redesign of the mall since that time with more high end restaurants and shops? Why were condo towers built? It seems to me if an area suffered an uptick in crime businesses would have left.

Here is a better question, does underground suffer from crime because of Marta or because of the people who live around there? Do the subways bring criminals into NYC? Surely riff raff couldn't afford homes in Manhattan. Finally, just because something is believed by a bunch of idiots with no proof doesn't make it true. Stop reverting to this logical fallacy and open your eyes.

[initiald]

God, this is why I pray for $20 a gallon gas. Some people deserve it. The sad fact is that is coming in the next decade or so. Goodbye suburbs.

[Justin10000]

The guy is a closet racist, brought up by ignorant racist parents. You cannot change those kind of scumbags.

It's a shame. I feel sorry for America, sometimes.

I am all for free speech, and the scumbag is entitled to his ignorant, racist opinion, but he should accept the fact no one cares for his opinion Or him, for that matter.

[jew4life4948]

Please. Please. PLEASE.

We've all heard the acronym for MARTA.

But bringing it up, calling out people, and insulting their upbringing isn't going to save our transit system.

---------------------------------

If we can protest for the Beltline, and the police (with ATAC)

Surely some one/thing can organize a protest for our legislature/governor.

I sent good ole' Sunny quite the email this morning.
Ironically enough, I was sitting in my "Planning Great Cities" class at the time.

[scpatl4now]

Originally Posted by jew4life4948

Please. Please. PLEASE.

We've all heard the acronym for MARTA.

But bringing it up, calling out people, and insulting their upbringing isn't going to save our transit system.

---------------------------------

If we can protest for the Beltline, and the police (with ATAC)

Surely some one/thing can organize a protest for our legislature/governor

Unfortunately, I dont think anyone under the dome will care until the nuclear option plays out. When the near riots it will cause show up on the capitol steps...that might get someones attention

[scpatl4now]

I just read this on the AJC site...it lists some pertinent phone numbers...start calling guys and gals!!! A BIG thanks to JAY BOOKMAN for publishing this in his editorial!!!

So let’s call some of them by name:

• Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle, the governor wannabe: Does he expect to get votes and campaign money from metro Atlanta? Call him up and ask him at 404-656-5030.

• Earl Ehrhart of Cobb County, chairman of the House Rules Committee: Is he going to fight for his metro Atlanta constituents stuck in traffic, or is he pugnacious only in pursuit of his own personal political power? Call 404-656-5141 and ask him.

• How about Gov. Sonny Perdue, for whom transportation represents a last chance at a legacy: Will he take a leadership role, or will he be happy to just go fish? Find out at 404-656-1776.

• House Speaker pro tem Mark Burkhalter of Johns Creek: Call him at 404-656-5072 and ask him if doing nothing is really OK.

• And House Speaker Glenn Richardson of Paulding County, who blocked a regional sales tax vote and cavalierly ignored the pleas of MARTA: In 2008, he spoke with such apparent sincerity about the frustration of being stuck in traffic, unable to reach his son’s Little League game. What’s Mr. Speaker going to do? Ask him at 404-656-5020.

• Or Jan Jones of Alpharetta, the House majority whip. Her office number is 404-656-5024. Is traffic not an issue for the people of Alpharetta?

• Is it an issue in Dacula, represented by Donna Sheldon, vice chairman of the House Transportation Committee, at 404-656-5025? How about in Snellville, home of Don Balfour, chairman of the Senate Rules Committee at 404-656-0095?

These are influential metro legislators, people in the majority party who exercise real power.

If you’re mad, tell them about it. Because it seems to me the people of the metro area face three basic choices:

• They can do nothing, and continue to sit in traffic each day and fume.

• They can demand and get corrective action from the people they have elected.

• They can pack up the moving vans and go someplace where leaders actually care about doing their job.