[Abbotsford] Mahogany at Mill Lake | 80m | 26 Floors | U/C

[Metro-One]

If the Valley so desperately wants us to spend hundreds of millions on extending mass transit to their region then maybe we would like to see some forward thinking in high density developments in their cities! Such decisions as this reinstates that we should be spending the money on skytrain where developments and densities are suitable for mass transit instead of wasting money in bring mass transit to areas that will not even allow a tower be built!

[DKaz]

Never mind the light rail, even buses aren't working in Abbotsford because of all the sprawl. It's not uncommon to see empty buses around here especially evenings and weekends although peak hour and mid-day bus ridership is not too bad.

[BattleAxe]

Softee

You'd think that people in Abbotsford would like tall buildings in their city - they could live in them and be closer to God.

Well I guess everyone would have their own reason, kinda like how people in Vancouver live in highrises so they can be further away from all of prostitutes and heroin drug users below.

[Whalleyboy]

I like seeing and knowing abby is growing too. It's nice when everything isnt all about Vancouver

unlike some people tend to think.....

[Sonicwolf]

I want out of this damned city and I want out now. Its a city full of religous fuddy duddy assholes who have nothing better to do than whine about there precious, precious sunshine and the fact that its not the 1950s anymore and urban sprawl is not a good thing. Any single glimpse of hope for this damned city is crunched into a singularity of nothing by the NIMBY bastards who are completely backwards thinking. They dont care that more farmland and forest will be destroyed for more houses - - They dont care about the other people complaining about the development of around their homes. Greedy bastards.

So now Abbotsford has the shittiest bus system, a shitty highway, a shitty road system, no intercity transit, a welfare school system, a terrible mall, another terrible mall, sports arenas in remote areas, No high rise development since 1997. Woo hoo. Lead shithole of British Columbia with murders plus.

Anyone else here embarassed about this scumdrop of a city?

[Kodii]

I think we're the only three Abbotsford SSPers (including DKaz from Mission), and trust me, I'm leaving this shithole as soon as I can. My only reasons for returning is family and friends.

[Whalleyboy]

it is sad such a smaller city has so many nimby's if only they could get one or two towers up there i'm sure they could out do the nimbys

makes me glad i live in Surrey some times where people just want money for there houses and dont care what is going up in place of it=P

[Kodii]

One of the comments someone made on the article in the Abbotsford News is that "the reason we chose to live and raise our family in Abbotsford is because we believed that this 'city in the country' would protect and reflect our values."

Ok. Fine. That's what my parents did too.

But once the kids are all grown up, they're leaving the "City in the Country" because there is absolutely nothing to offer there.

Let me summarize Abbotsford and it's conservativeness:

Step One: Move to Abbotsford
Step Two: Make babies and raise them
Step Three: Grow old and complain
Step Four: Make your kids marry early and have babies to force them to stay

Otherwise, WE'RE OUTTA THERE.

If a poll was taken of my high school graduating class, just about no one would choose to stay in Abbotsford.

[CBeats]

Originally Posted by Kodii

If a poll was taken of my high school graduating class, just about no one would choose to stay in Abbotsford.

That really tells you something about Abbotsford. Yes, teenage values are not the same as the people who actually pay taxes in the city (town?), but still. It's pretty similar to Kelowna outskirts actually, with the whole religious conservative thing.

[GMasterAres]

They're starting too big that's the problem. Developers unfortunately are jumping at the bit to build tall out in the country. You have to start small, it's the natural progression of a city outside the UAE.

I don't know anywhere besides Dubai where you can just build 9000 storey highrises in the middle of nowhere. You start with several 4-5 storey condos, move up to several 10-15 storey towers, then when you build up some density, you go for the signature 28 storey tower and then a few others in the 25-35 range. Once the population gets more used to the density and some stuff is already built, it makes it 1) easier to convince them of more and 2) more difficult to argue against since you have established some density already.

Abbotsford's main issue in the last two major proposals is going too big too fast. This 28 storey like blamo really in the middle of nowhere and the previous that insanely expensive one with 2 Porsches for residents priced out of the stratosphere.

As much as I'm against the majority of NIMBYs, I don't think that's what killed this project more just going a little too big a little too fast.

It's like the argument for developement in Surrey right now. How many massive projects have been completed without issue? Then you have Citypoint and D'corize which are near done. They aren't massive monsters, they aren't huge elaborate developments, but they are adding density, bringing people to the area, helping the cleanup process, and making it easier for the monster projects to actually succeed.

[Kodii]

What you are saying is true. However, there isn't exactly a rush of developers looking to build ~10-storey buildings in Abbotsford. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of bylaw that prevents them or something. We have 4 storey condos sprouting like there's no tomorrow, but they are restricted to just that because of bylaws.

I understand that we can't be expecting highrises out of nowhere, but when the opportunity arrives, I'd take them, especially since these opportunities come once in a blue moon.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Kodii

One of the comments someone made on the article in the Abbotsford News is that "the reason we chose to live and raise our family in Abbotsford is because we believed that this 'city in the country' would protect and reflect our values."

Ok. Fine. That's what my parents did too.

But once the kids are all grown up, they're leaving the "City in the Country" because there is absolutely nothing to offer there.

Let me summarize Abbotsford and it's conservativeness:

Step One: Move to Abbotsford
Step Two: Make babies and raise them
Step Three: Grow old and complain
Step Four: Make your kids marry early and have babies to force them to stay

Otherwise, WE'RE OUTTA THERE.

If a poll was taken of my high school graduating class, just about no one would choose to stay in Abbotsford.

I think we're in for a even tougher future...development-wise. Translink's ads: the senior population is expected to triple over the next few decades.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by jhausner

They're starting too big that's the problem. Developers unfortunately are jumping at the bit to build tall out in the country. You have to start small, it's the natural progression of a city outside the UAE.

I don't know anywhere besides Dubai where you can just build 9000 storey highrises in the middle of nowhere. You start with several 4-5 storey condos, move up to several 10-15 storey towers, then when you build up some density, you go for the signature 28 storey tower and then a few others in the 25-35 range. Once the population gets more used to the density and some stuff is already built, it makes it 1) easier to convince them of more and 2) more difficult to argue against since you have established some density already.

Abbotsford's main issue in the last two major proposals is going too big too fast. This 28 storey like blamo really in the middle of nowhere and the previous that insanely expensive one with 2 Porsches for residents priced out of the stratosphere.

As much as I'm against the majority of NIMBYs, I don't think that's what killed this project more just going a little too big a little too fast.

It's like the argument for developement in Surrey right now. How many massive projects have been completed without issue? Then you have Citypoint and D'corize which are near done. They aren't massive monsters, they aren't huge elaborate developments, but they are adding density, bringing people to the area, helping the cleanup process, and making it easier for the monster projects to actually succeed.

True, but you can still add highrises in to the mix with public support. Kelowna has gone from a city that had one highrise that topped out at 16 floors to having over 3 that top out at over 20 floors within in a few short years. Kelowna is a bit of a different beast due to the ALR restrictions, but it is possible to get the public behind these developments.

[Kodii]

People power trumps tower

By Joe Millican - Abbotsford News

Published: May 13, 2009 4:00 PM

Residents have won their fight against an 80-metre tower on Bevan Avenue, which would have become Abbotsford’s tallest building had it been approved.

The public turned out in force before council two weeks ago to protest the 28-storey Mahogany at Mill Lake proposal.

Dubbing themselves “The Sun People,” due to the amount of sunlight they said they would lose from shadows cast by the 262-foot tower, many of the 90-plus residents who attended the public hearing wore badges adorned with those words as they told local politicians the structure was not welcome.

On Monday, council voted 5-4 against the development proposed for 32848 Bevan Ave.

Surrey resident Bert Schendel, who owns property in the area and whose mother would have lived close to the tower, was thankful council had listened to the concerns of residents.

“It’s tremendous,” said Schendel, who helped rally locals to protest the tower.

“I think there may be another proposal [for the site], but for the time being we have stopped the trucks and stopped the power saws.”

Area resident Alan Ferguson said the community “is not burying its head in the sand” and recognizes there will be some form of development at the Bevan address in the future.

“But based on what the public said, council said this was not the right thing, at this time, for this place,” he said.

While a number of councillors said local residents had persuaded them that the tower proposal should be denied, others believed it was time to press ahead with densifying the area.

Voting in favour of the application by Abbotsford-based Quantum Properties were Mayor George Peary and Couns. John Smith, Bill MacGregor and Dave Loewen.

However, they were outnumbered by Couns. Les Barkman, Moe Gill, Patricia Ross, Lynne Harris and Simon Gibson.

“The public dissent almost unanimously against this was a ringing bell around this table. If we endorse, almost haphazardly, high rises in areas that are residential, to a large degree we are thrusting a sabre deep into the heart of these communities,” said Gibson.

Harris spoke of the “overwhelming number of people” who spoke against the proposal.

“I totally understand NIMBYism, but at the same time, I think it’s a very difficult decision for council to disregard your residents,” she said. “It’s just not in the right location. You just can’t put a 28-storey building beside single family neighbourhoods.”

Loewen, how ever, did not believe the tower would “destroy the quality of life” in the area. The councillor also said that unlike cities such as Langley and Surrey, Abbotsford does not have an abundance of land that can still be developed – due to its proximity to the Agricultural Land Reserve to the west and Sumas Mountain to the east. That will essentially force Abbotsford to build upwards instead of outwards, he suggested.

Peary said the piece of property in question will be developed in the future. And Abbotsford has told other neighbouring high-growth communities that it will densify in the future.

The Mahogany tower would have included 201 housing units, with townhouses on the ground floor. A four-storey building with 83 units was also part of the plan. The tallest existing buildings in Abbotsford peak at 16 storeys.

Source: The Abbotsford News -- http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_va.../44937242.html

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by giallo

True, but you can still add highrises in to the mix with public support. Kelowna has gone from a city that had one highrise that topped out at 16 floors to having over 3 that top out at over 20 floors within in a few short years. Kelowna is a bit of a different beast due to the ALR restrictions, but it is possible to get the public behind these developments.

You can if the demographics of the overall population support it. You have a lot of people in Abbotsford that want that "city in the country" feel. I've known a few people that moved out there because they wanted to get away from the city feel but not be out in the bush. They now live in Chilliwack because they claim Abbotsford is becoming too city for them.

So you have a group of people in Abbotsford not as extreme as them but up there. + it has a large conservative population and conservatives in general don't like change. They want their neighborhood to be the same it was 'back in the day.' Think about White Rock and the portion of South Surrey around White Rock. They have some high-rises but every development requires pulling teeth and almost getting on their hands and knees to beg the people to support it compared to the rest of Surrey.

Different demographics. You do have a point though, that if done right, you can still grow and have support of the people. I just think for Abbotsford's demographic, some developers are pushing to hard to fast.

[Sonicwolf]

Originally Posted by jhausner

I just think for Abbotsford's demographic, some developers are pushing to hard to fast.

You think that 2 proposed and soon after failed High rise projects since 1997 is pushing too hard and too fast?

[SpongeG]

ok so no towers

but they can keep their gangs - lol

losers

[Sonicwolf]

Tower Rises Again
By Kevin Mills - Abbotsford News

The Mahogany at Mill Lake tower project may have a new lease on life.

The proposed 28-storey tower was voted down by council back in May, after a public outcry against what would have been the tallest tower in the city.

But Diane Delves, CEO of Quantum Properties in Abbotsford, says that she has not given up on the project.

“We have filed a new application with the city,” she confirmed.

The new proposal is similar to the original, with a few adjustments.

The size has been reduced to 26 storeys, as 16 suites have been removed.

The spectre of the tower came back into the public eye last week when local residents noticed a blue fence had been erected around the proposed construction site.

However, the barrier had nothing to do with the new application.

“The fence went up because we have had some problems with the trees,” said Delves.

Some larger branches have fallen in the recent wind storms, and because Quantum Properties owns the land, there were liability issues.

Delves is aware some people in the neighbourhood may be opposed to the new proposal, but plans to hold a public meeting to explain the changes.

“This will be our fifth meeting with the public so far.”

The new application was filed after a mandatory six-month waiting period to reapply after being turned down by council.

It will come before council again some time in the new year.

Source: The Abbotsford News -- http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_va.../79657282.html


Looks like they are going to try again. Of course it will be voted down again, come on, its Abbotsford.

[berrypicker]

I understand how some people might be upset over this project because if you go to the neighbourhood surrounding the site there are all single family homes these people are not used to having a big huge tower in the middle of their neighbourhood. They said themselves they wouldn't mind a 6 story apartment building instead we need to get people used to taller towers by building smaller then bigger.

[Sonicwolf]

Originally Posted by berrypicker

I understand how some people might be upset over this project because if you go to the neighbourhood surrounding the site there are all single family homes these people are not used to having a big huge tower in the middle of their neighbourhood. They said themselves they wouldn't mind a 6 story apartment building instead we need to get people used to taller towers by building smaller then bigger.

Construction of buildings of 6 storeys doesnt happen here often, nor does the construction of high rises occur here. The last was finished in 1998. For a city of well over 150,000 people, thats pretty ridiculous.

These people also dont realize the incredible rate at which homes like theirs (I have walked down the street, its a bunch of dumpy 60's bungalows) are being bought up, demolished and redeveloped. Its only a matter of time before the houses surrounding that street are razed. Its in the prime clearbrook-downtown development area too.

They sure dont bitch about the massive fir trees around there either. I really must emphasize the word massive too. I thought shadows were a problem for them.