HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2009, 12:12 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 41,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by tintinium View Post
Can't imagine why the community would be against grade separating rails.
Because an overpass is an ugly concrete structure - like a bridge ramp, viaduct or freeway.

I suspect that the purple indicates the extent of the elevated roadway for the Powell Street overpass. I don't think it would be a steep up and down overpass - I think it would be more gradual - plus the height to allow trains to pass below may have to accommodate double-stacked containerized cargo. (But the plan does show it going awfully far to the east, not sure why - but it'll take out the Chevron Station there.)

Pic from City Report linked by JLousa:


Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2009, 12:14 AM
fever's Avatar
fever fever is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,019
There's a bit of a rise to the west on Powell and Cordova.

What I'm wondering is:

1) Would full grade-separation from the flats to the inlet allow for the railyard behind Waterfront to be replaced with one on the flats?
2) This line is right at sea level, but could they depress it a few meters in a trench anyway to reduce the height of overpasses?
3) Would this be compatible with regional or commuter rail on the Central Valley line (i.e. would there be enough distance/separation between these freight tracks and future passenger tracks to allow them to operate at the same time)?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2009, 5:48 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
loafing in lotusland
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lotusland
Posts: 6,114
Amtrak said Cascades’ traffic set record in ’08

Quote:
Amtrak said Cascades’ traffic set record in ’08

Portland Business Journal

More people rode the Amtrak Cascades train service last year than any other year in the Cascade’s 10-year history, Amtrak officials said.

Last year, 774,421 people were carried by the train, up 14.4 percent from 2007, which was the service’s second most popular year.

Amtrak officials attributed part of the increase to sky-high gasoline prices in summer 2008. The train travels 310 miles between Vancouver, British Columbia, and Eugene, with a one-way trip between those two cities taking around 12 hours, according to an Amtrak schedule. Seattle is the most heavily used station along the route, Amtrak said, with Portland, the second most popular.

According to Amtrak, the Cascades route is the seventh most heavily traveled corridor in the country.
I wonder how much this would grow if there was a second train.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 6:12 AM
deasine deasine is offline
Vancouver Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,747
Quote:
Cascadia high-speed rail: It's time
by Brad Perkins, guest opinion, The Oregonian
Thursday February 26, 2009, 12:00 PM



It's time to take steps to implement Cascadia high-speed rail between Eugene and Vancouver, B.C. High-speed rail would be faster and more comfortable than automobile or short-distance air travel. This new electrically powered, double-track rail line would move people and freight at least 110 miles per hour and avoid all grade and river traffic interruptions.

The extra benefit to high-speed rail in Portland is the addition of a new east-bank high-tech passenger rail station on Paul Allen's and the city's property along the Willamette River across from Memorial Coliseum. The new Rose Garden Transit/Tourism Station's main pedestrian entrance would be central to the MAX light-rail center, planned bicycle paths and future streetcar stops. This new activity hub would spur economic growth to help justify financing a new outdoor entertainment center, a Veterans Memorial Baseball Stadium, hotels and restaurants.

Vancouver, Wash., citizens would greatly benefit because the new multi-track high-speed rail could act as a commuter alternative as well. From a new park-and-ride stop from Vancouver's Northwest 39th near the I-5 exit to the new Rose Garden Transit Station by high-speed rail would take seven minutes. From Portland to Eugene, it would take 75 minutes.

Federal investment in high-speed rail would benefit both freight operation and passenger service. Freight rail companies see the advantages in cooperation. The new interstate rail freeway for freight and passengers would have double tracks, concrete tie base and new high-grade steel rails. Existing rail right of way would be used where practical. Tunnels, elevated tracks, bridges and earth cuts would avoid unreasonable curves, elevations, roads and waterways.

On a national level, American citizens think that developing high-speed rail corridors would create thousands of jobs, reduce road congestion and pollution, and improve freight capacity, business productivity and energy conservation. In the Nov. 30, 2008, issue of Parade magazine, people were asked if they preferred cash rebates to repairing our nation's infrastructure. Sixty-seven percent of Americans preferred focusing on infrastructure improvements that develop faster and better trains.

The $787 billion economic recovery bill signed by President Barack Obama on Feb. 17 dedicates $8 billion to high-speed rail. Obama wants to make high-speed rail a signature achievement of his presidency. He said, "The time is right for us to start thinking about high-speed rail as an alternative to air transportation connecting all these cities. Think about what a great project that would be in terms of rebuilding America."

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is working with the White House to jump-start high-speed rail nationally. The Eugene to Vancouver, B.C., corridor is one of 11 corridors designated for possible high-speed rail development. There is much to be done regionally before LaHood assigns priority funding for the engineering and development of the Cascadia high-speed rail line.

Rep. Peter DeFazio and Sen. Ron Wyden have been most helpful in emphasizing the need for the Cascadia line. State Rep. Chip Shields and I have worked together on a bill to be introduced in the Oregon House to form a High-Speed Railway Task Force. It would coordinate with high-speed rail efforts in Washington and British Columbia to determine potential corridor route, economic impact, investment opportunities, freight and passenger capacity, etc.

Let the Northwest lead America toward a greener 21st century.
Source: Brad Perkins, Oregon Live
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 5:29 PM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 3,614
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
Cascadia high-speed rail: It's time
by Brad Perkins, guest opinion, The Oregonian
Thursday February 26, 2009, 12:00 PM
It's time to take steps to implement Cascadia high-speed rail between Eugene and Vancouver, B.C. High-speed rail would be faster and more comfortable than automobile or short-distance air travel. This new electrically powered, double-track rail line would move people and freight at least 110 miles per hour and avoid all grade and river traffic interruptions.
The extra benefit to high-speed rail in Portland is the addition of a new east-bank high-tech passenger rail station on Paul Allen's and the city's property along the Willamette River across from Memorial Coliseum. The new Rose Garden Transit/Tourism Station's main pedestrian entrance would be central to the MAX light-rail center, planned bicycle paths and future streetcar stops. This new activity hub would spur economic growth to help justify financing a new outdoor entertainment center, a Veterans Memorial Baseball Stadium, hotels and restaurants.
Vancouver, Wash., citizens would greatly benefit because the new multi-track high-speed rail could act as a commuter alternative as well. From a new park-and-ride stop from Vancouver's Northwest 39th near the I-5 exit to the new Rose Garden Transit Station by high-speed rail would take seven minutes. From Portland to Eugene, it would take 75 minutes.
Federal investment in high-speed rail would benefit both freight operation and passenger service. Freight rail companies see the advantages in cooperation. The new interstate rail freeway for freight and passengers would have double tracks, concrete tie base and new high-grade steel rails. Existing rail right of way would be used where practical. Tunnels, elevated tracks, bridges and earth cuts would avoid unreasonable curves, elevations, roads and waterways.
On a national level, American citizens think that developing high-speed rail corridors would create thousands of jobs, reduce road congestion and pollution, and improve freight capacity, business productivity and energy conservation. In the Nov. 30, 2008, issue of Parade magazine, people were asked if they preferred cash rebates to repairing our nation's infrastructure. Sixty-seven percent of Americans preferred focusing on infrastructure improvements that develop faster and better trains.
The $787 billion economic recovery bill signed by President Barack Obama on Feb. 17 dedicates $8 billion to high-speed rail. Obama wants to make high-speed rail a signature achievement of his presidency. He said, "The time is right for us to start thinking about high-speed rail as an alternative to air transportation connecting all these cities. Think about what a great project that would be in terms of rebuilding America."
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is working with the White House to jump-start high-speed rail nationally. The Eugene to Vancouver, B.C., corridor is one of 11 corridors designated for possible high-speed rail development. There is much to be done regionally before LaHood assigns priority funding for the engineering and development of the Cascadia high-speed rail line.
Rep. Peter DeFazio and Sen. Ron Wyden have been most helpful in emphasizing the need for the Cascadia line. State Rep. Chip Shields and I have worked together on a bill to be introduced in the Oregon House to form a High-Speed Railway Task Force. It would coordinate with high-speed rail efforts in Washington and British Columbia to determine potential corridor route, economic impact, investment opportunities, freight and passenger capacity, etc.
Let the Northwest lead America toward a greener 21st century.
Source: Brad Perkins, Oregon Live
This new electrically powered, double-track rail line would move people and freight at least 110 miles per hour and avoid all grade and river traffic interruptions.
The existing Cascades trains are capable of 110 mph if the tracks and signals support it. While Oregon lawmakers/politicians would like new trains on new ROW, what's so wrong with the existing ROW that can be fixed cheaper.
WSDOT already has a long range to increase speeds of the Cascades trains that will only cost $6.5 Billion in 2006 dollars by 2023. I'm sure with Obama in the White House that this schedule could be quicken considerably.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres...akCascades.pdf

Destination...............1994..2003..2023
Portland to Seattle.....3:55..3:30..2:30
Seattle to Vancouver...N/A..3:55..2:37
Vancouver to Portland..N/A..N/A..5:22

It's 187 rail miles between Seattle and Portland. In 1994, the trains averaged 47.7 mph. In 2003, 53.4 mph. In 2023, 74.8 mph. WSDOT plan consists of eliminating most slow order sections of tracks.

Improvements identified by WSDOT and cooperating agencies and organizations include:
* Upgrading grade crossings to ensure safe passage of trains, vehicles and pedestrians;
* Increasing speeds to improve corridor capacity and travel times;
* Enhancing train control signals to improve corridor capacity, increase train speeds, and enhance safety;
* Purchasing new passenger train equipment to operate along the corridor to increase frequencies and decrease travel time;
* Improving stations and their ability to serve neighboring communities and to provide connections to other modes of travel; and
* Upgrading tracks and facilities to relieve congestion, improve ride quality and safety, increase train speeds, and improve corridor capacity. In addition to these improvements, WSDOT intends to continue to actively market the program to the public, and work closely with Amtrak to ensure that day-to-day operations meet customer expectations.

It is important to note that no long-term financial commitments have yet been made by any of the various funding entities that are described in this plan. However, this long-range plan assumes that the major capital construction projects that are needed to support expanded Amtrak Cascades service in the Pacific Northwest will be funded in the following manner:
* Projects necessary to provide faster, more frequent Amtrak Cascades service between downtown Portland, OR and the Columbia River will be funded by the State of Oregon, with potential funding coming from the federal government and Amtrak.
* Projects necessary to increase the level of Sounder commuter rail service in the central Puget Sound region will be funded by Sound Transit and the federal government.
* Projects necessary to provide faster, more frequent Amtrak Cascades service between the Columbia River and the Canadian border will be funded by the State of Washington, with potential funding coming from the federal government and Amtrak.
* Projects necessary to improve Amtrak Cascades service in British Columbia will be funded by the province of British Columbia, the Canadian federal government, and regional transportation agencies.
* Train sets and locomotives will be funded by the States of Oregon and Washington, with additional funds provided by Amtrak and the federal government.
* The Seattle Maintenance Facility will be funded by Amtrak, the federal government, the State of Washington, and Sound Transit.
* Station improvements will be funded jointly by local jurisdictions, regional, state and provincial governments, and the federal governments of the U.S. and Canada.
* The new rail bridge across the Columbia River will be funded by the railroads, the States of Washington and Oregon, and the federal government.
* Projects that provide a direct benefit to the BNSF Railway Company will be funded by the railroad.

Revised Cost Comparison Associated with High-Speed Ground Transportation
Technology Type of Corridor Estimated Cost*
Tilt and Conventional Trains (90 to 110 mph)Existing Rail Right-of-Way $1 to $5 million/mile
Tilt and Conventional Trains (up to 125 mph) Existing Rail Right-of-Way $3 to $7.5 million/mile
Tilt and Conventional Trains New Corridor $10 to $45 million/mile
Maglev New Corridor $20 to $50 million/mile
*In 1997 dollars (Note Pacific NW construction costs are significantly higher than the National average)

74.8 mph average speeds is as good as Amtrak's Acela trains running on the NE Corridor. Between Boston and New York City, where Acela reaches its highest speeds of 150 mph, it averages only 62.85 mph.
Assumptions: Boston to New York City is 220 rail miles. Amtrak's schedule reads 3 hours and 30 minutes.

I believe WSDOT has a good plan worth implementing at significantly lower costs.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 5:53 PM
DKaz DKaz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kelowna BC & Edmonton AB
Posts: 4,299
W00t! Let's make this happen!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 6:19 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
loafing in lotusland
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lotusland
Posts: 6,114
Yeah, I don't know why they're fixated on electrifying the line. Given that there is no clear straight corridor, we'd do better to upgrade the existing line to fully utilize the talgo tilting trains that we have now.

By the time those trains are ready for retirement, I'm sure there will be faster versions that can run on the existing tracks.

I wonder how the Pendolinos would fare? I think they tilt even more than the talgos.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 7:57 PM
Chikinlittle Chikinlittle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 264
Thinking about how to either upgrade or where to build new infrastructure on our side of the border.

Traveling via White Rock seems out of the question, although picturesque, for a high-speed train. And also the existing stretch skirting North Delta is too curvey. I would think new infrastructure south of the Fraser would likely be needed. Such as either following 176th north, or elevated in the median of Hwy 99 and then north via the Serpentine valley. It could then use existing rights of way on the south bank of the fraser towards Port Mann - if the bridge could accommodate heavy rail (which it doesn't sound like) that would be perfect, otherwise a new rail bridge along with a new Patullo would be an option. Then the question would be to upgrade rail in the Central Valley, or Riverview area. If Riverview, then the likely terminus would be Waterfront as opposed to Pacific Central.

Personally, I think Pacific Central - although a beautiful building, should be abandoned and all transportation services, bus and Via included, should be incorporated into the redesigned Waterfront Hub.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 9:23 PM
Stingray2004's Avatar
Stingray2004 Stingray2004 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: White Rock, BC (Metro Vancouver)
Posts: 3,145
Or if one really wants to get serious about a high-speed rail corridor between the border and Pacific Central Station, akin to dedicated high-speed European inter-city rail:

From the border follow the Hwy 99 corridor:

1. Requires ~6(?) km tunnel between roughly 8th Ave and 32nd Ave;
2. Bridge over Fraser River, south arm;
3. Northward follow Hwy 99 corridor to Westminster Hwy interchange and diverge slightly eastward toward the Knight St. corridor;
4. Bridge over Fraser River, north arm;
5. Requires tunnel ~7(?) km tunnel along Knight/Clarke corridor between SE Marine Drive to False Creek flats;

CP Rail completed the ~15 km Mt. MacDonald Tunnel through the Rockies in the late 1980's. It can be done.

I know, it's just a pipe-dream, but that's really the way to go about it and how the Europeans would likely go about it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 9:50 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
loafing in lotusland
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lotusland
Posts: 6,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chikinlittle View Post
Thinking about how to either upgrade or where to build new infrastructure on our side of the border.

Traveling via White Rock seems out of the question, although picturesque, for a high-speed train.
Going via White isn't totally out of the question. It's just a matter of going under White rock. Of course, there's no way White Rock would EVER allow HSR on its waterfront in its current form, because it would require fencing on either side of the tracks, cutting the city off from its waterfront.

Quote:
And also the existing stretch skirting North Delta is too curvey. I would think new infrastructure south of the Fraser would likely be needed. Such as either following 176th north, or elevated in the median of Hwy 99 and then north via the Serpentine valley. It could then use existing rights of way on the south bank of the fraser towards Port Mann - if the bridge could accommodate heavy rail (which it doesn't sound like) that would be perfect, otherwise a new rail bridge along with a new Patullo would be an option. Then the question would be to upgrade rail in the Central Valley, or Riverview area. If Riverview, then the likely terminus would be Waterfront as opposed to Pacific Central.
Yep, parallel to the #99 before it joins up with the Colebrook mainline would be the cheaper way to go. Yes, it's slow through North Delta, but the other route would be very expensive.

The #99 part of the line would be a 13km of new rail, but it would improve the connection significantly.

One thing about running in the median of the #99 is that you may have to retain some of existing emergency turn-arounds, meaning it would have to be elevated in some places, adding to the cost.

It also may limit the ability for the #99 to expand in the future. This may or may not be a disadvantage if you can encourage more efficient HSR for "people-movement"

The advantages of this route, however, are
  • It's not really near any people
  • It's safer, shorter and more efficient that going through White Rock.
  • White Rock's tracks can continue to be used for slower moving freight traffic, or re-purposed for transit (white-rock / Crescent Beach Shuttle?) or used for both freight and transit.
  • Car-people waiting in line at the border will see the train passing them.


Quote:
Personally, I think Pacific Central - although a beautiful building, should be abandoned and all transportation services, bus and Via included, should be incorporated into the redesigned Waterfront Hub.
We've had this discussion before. There are advantages to having two hubs in the city.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 6:40 AM
Spork's Avatar
Spork Spork is offline
Shoebox Dweller
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,784
Interesting, I wonder how much it would cost? It would definitely facilitate business between Portland/Seattle/Vancouver much more than current.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 5:18 PM
WarrenC12's Avatar
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: East OV!
Posts: 24,608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spork View Post
Interesting, I wonder how much it would cost? It would definitely facilitate business between Portland/Seattle/Vancouver much more than current.
Sounds like a lot of red tape though, they wouldn't want to put in the US side without assurance that the Canadian side was being funded and built. Here's hoping...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 2:05 PM
red-paladin red-paladin is offline
Vancouver Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 3,626
I use the west coast express often and now there are often 9 coaches and they extend further than the platform. The trains are pack and there is usually standing room only from waterfront to poco. Surely that means the service is a great success. Two new Trainbus (coach buses that run on the west coast route when the train is not running) runs just started this year.
I wonder why there are no plans for a fraser valley commuter train yet since it would make a lot of sense and take pressure off the expo line. Each train could carry thousands of people, like the WCE
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2009, 2:11 AM
Jared's Avatar
Jared Jared is offline
senior something
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 4,051
Altough the $8billion for HSR isn't really all that much, when spread over an entire country, it's definately a step in the right direction. Also note that this is just the funding in the stimulus bill, there's more on the way:

FEBRUARY 26, 2009, 3:32 P.M. ET
Transportation Budget Reflects Focus on Infrastructure
By CHRISTOPHER CONKEY

The Department of Transportation would get $72.5 billion next year, a 2.8% increase that reflects the president's priorities to rebuild the nation's infrastructure and significantly upgrade to passenger rail service and air travel. Building on an $8 billion program in the stimulus bill, the budget would provide $5 billion more over the next five years to improve high-speed passenger rail corridors between major cities. The Federal Aviation Administration would get $800 million to accelerate the rollout of a satellite-based air traffic control system.

Left unanswered is where the administration will find the money to pay for the bulk of transportation spending that channeled to states for road and mass transit projects. The budget says today's primary revenue source -- fuel taxes -- is "not financially sustainable" with Americans driving less and switching to more fuel efficient vehicles. Aside from vowing to "work with Congress," the budget offers no specific remedies.

-------------------

I like Amtrak's plan for the next 15 years or so. Let's face it, a state of the art HSR built from scratch is currently a political non-starter; the first place in Canada to build one will most likely be the Windsor-Quebec City corridor (and rightfully so IMO). On the Cascades corridor, I think it makes sense to follow the German ICE model, rather than do a megaproject, do incremental upgrades that gradually increase the service quality of the line. We have the existing infrastructure right now to run trains (i.e. the current service), so let's simply work at double tracking key bottlenecks, grade seperating the busiest crossings, electifying once current trains wear out etc. and ensuring that all new construction will be compatible for future 250km/h or more HSR. As service improves (in both speed and frequency) so will ridership. As ridership improves, it becomes more politically feasible to do the big-ticket items.

Really expensive components like Chikkinlittle mentioned should be the last part of the puzzle IMO.

The main disadvantage to doing it this way is the ridiculous standards the US railway authorities improse on passenger trains; so long as there's any at grade crossing or sharing the line with freight, the trains have to be built like a tank. Most countries dont have such stringest regulations, and you can use much lighter train sets.

Hopefully the new Patullo will accomodate more rail lines somehow, but frankly I doubt it will, based on where the tracks are at either end of the current rotating bridge, the track geometry would be difficult to integrate, especially when you take into account the high clearance needed for the bridge (i.e. steep grades). Over the long term, I think a new rail super tunnel would be nice; 2 tracks for HSR, 2 for freight, 2 for regional/commuter rail.
__________________
My Diagrams My Photos

I'm not the guy from Subway.

Last edited by Jared; Feb 28, 2009 at 4:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2009, 1:16 AM
Rusty Gull's Avatar
Rusty Gull Rusty Gull is offline
Site 8 Lives
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver's North Shore
Posts: 1,285
Upcoming talks could lead to 2nd Amtrak run to B.C.

A second daily round-trip Amtrak train between Seattle and Vancouver, B.C., could start running by early summer if upcoming talks between Washington state and Canadian officials go well.

By Kristin Jackson
Seattle Times Travel staff

A second daily train between Seattle and Vancouver, B.C., could start running by early summer if upcoming talks between Washington state and Canadian officials go well.

"It's the first real step forward in getting the second train situation ironed out," Vickie Sheehan, a spokeswoman for the Washington State Department of Transportation (DOT), said of the meeting that will be held in the next few weeks.

A second train would be popular among business and leisure travelers, particularly with the Winter Olympics coming up in February 2010 in Vancouver and Whistler, B.C.

Amtrak Cascades, which currently has one round trip a day between the two cities, was poised to start the second train last summer after track improvements were made. However, the service was derailed by a dispute over payment for immigration/customs inspections of passengers arriving in Canada aboard the second train.

The Canada Border Services Agency wants a daily payment of $1,500 (about $1,170 U.S.) for inspection costs.

Amtrak Cascades, the Pacific Northwest rail service that is operated by Amtrak under contract with the governments of Washington and Oregon, doesn't want to pay that; no such fee is charged for the current Seattle-Vancouver, B.C., train.

"We're optimistic that we will reach a decision on the funding for customs," said Sheehan.

Officials from Washington's DOT and Canadian customs will meet in Canada in two or three weeks to discuss the issue.

"It was an unexpected charge ... in a budget crunch, that's hard to come up with," Sheehan said Thursday. If an agreement is made, Sheehan said, the second train would start in about 90 days, time that Amtrak needs to put staff and other matters in place.

Amtrak Cascades had record ridership last year, with 774,421 passengers on routes that stretch from Eugene, Ore., through Portland and Seattle to Vancouver, B.C. In 2007, it had 676,670 passengers.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2009, 3:25 AM
Rusty Gull's Avatar
Rusty Gull Rusty Gull is offline
Site 8 Lives
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver's North Shore
Posts: 1,285
Obama's high-speed rail plans for Vancouver

Take a look at the graphic that ran with this Washington Post article published Sunday:



High-Speed Rail Drives Obama's Transportation Agenda
By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, March 8, 2009; A01

The Northern Lights Express is little more than an idea -- a proposal for a 110-mph passenger train between Minneapolis and Duluth, Minn., that has crept along in fits and starts for years.

But the slow ride may soon be over. The project is one of dozens nationwide that are likely to benefit from President Obama's initiative to fund high-speed and intercity passenger rail programs, including $8 billion in stimulus money and $5 billion more over the next five years in the administration's proposed transportation budget.

The money represents the first major step toward establishing a genuine high-speed train network in the United States and has sparked a stampede among states, advocacy groups and lobbyists who are not accustomed to this level of funding.

"We're going to turn over every stone we can," said Steve Raukar, a commissioner in St. Louis County, Minn., who chairs the Northern Lights Passenger Rail Alliance, which is spearheading the drive for the $500 million project. "We're trying to get everything moving as fast as possible with the understanding that this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for funding."

High-speed rail has emerged as the cornerstone of Obama's ambitious attempt to remake the nation's transportation agenda, which for half a century has focused primarily on building highways and roads. Nearly half of the $48 billion in stimulus money for transportation projects will go toward rail, buses and other non-highway projects, including $1.3 billion for Amtrak and its successful rapid rail service, Acela. The Transportation Department also would receive $2 billion more under Obama's proposed 2010 budget, most of it for rail and aviation improvements.

The dream of rail backers is a nation connected by high-speed lines that would be faster and more convenient than driving or flying. For instance, a trip on a proposed 432-mile line between Los Angeles and San Francisco would take 2 1/2 hours.

But experts and government officials caution that despite the billions, the amounts are still not nearly enough to pay for the kind of sleek "bullet train" systems that crisscross Europe and Japan at speeds of 200 mph or higher. The California project, for example, would cost an estimated $45 billion, including $9 billion in state bonds that voters approved last year.

"It sounds like a lot of money to Americans, but it's really just a start," said James P. RePass, president of the National Corridors Initiative, a nonprofit rail advocacy group. "We're not going to wake up in a year and see a bullet train. But we are going to see much faster service for relatively little money."

Amid praise from rail and transit advocates, however, many Republicans have zeroed in on Obama's high-speed train initiative as a prime example of government excess. In his response to the president's address to a joint session of Congress last week, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal said that the program represents "wasteful spending" and suggested that the bill included money for a proposed magnetic levitation, or maglev, line from Las Vegas to Disneyland in Anaheim, Calif. The project could be eligible for such funding, but it is not named in the bill.

Administration officials say the rail initiative is particularly important to Obama, who routinely talked about the benefits of high-speed passenger service during the presidential campaign and who initially requested $10 billion in stimulus money for such projects. In a speech to U.S. mayors last summer, Obama noted that China is home to the world's first commercial maglev train, capable of speeds faster than 300 mph.

"I don't want to see the fastest train in the world built halfway around the world in Shanghai," Obama said. "I want to see it built right here in the United States of America."

The next step is doling out the money. The Federal Railroad Administration, which distributed $30 million for similar grants last year, is scrambling to develop guidelines for the program within the next six weeks, officials said.

"We are pulling in staff from all over the department to help with this," said one senior transportation official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "The department is allowing us free rein."

The official played down remarks by Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, who recently told reporters that he submitted a report to the White House identifying half a dozen corridors as prime candidates for funding. The railroad administration has already designated 11 high-speed corridors around the country, but other projects -- such as the Las Vegas or Minnesota projects -- could apply for stimulus funding.

"There is no preset position on what projects will be funded," the official said, adding: "Part of our criteria for selecting projects will be that there is a visible benefit to the public."

Although railroads are a major player on Capitol Hill, most of the industry's lobbying efforts have focused on freight trains rather than passenger rail. Of $44 million in lobbying expenditures by the railroad sector last year, less than $2 million was spent by companies or organizations focused on promoting high-speed passenger service, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics. The handful of foreign companies that specialize in building rapid electrically powered trains, such as Bombardier of Montreal, also have relatively low profiles in Washington.

"High-speed and intercity passenger rail beyond Amtrak haven't gotten a lot of attention from the federal government historically," said Paul Dean, government affairs director for the American Public Transportation Association. "This is a new thing."

Industry experts and passenger-rail advocates say the strongest candidates for funding come from three areas of the country with the most developed plans for high-speed rail service: California, the Washington-New York-Boston corridor, and the web of rail lines centered around Chicago.

Laura Kliewer, director of the Midwest Interstate Passenger Rail Commission, said her organization identified $815 million in short-term projects that could be started almost immediately in the 10 states that belong to the organization. The group has also identified $15 billion worth of longer-range projects, including a $9 billion proposal to provide 110-mph train service between Chicago and eight states.

Thomas Simpson, executive director of the Railway Supply Institute, which represents companies that build and maintain rail lines, said the Obama administration faces a choice between spreading the $8 billion around the country or focusing on a few large-scale projects to serve as showcases for high-speed rail. He noted that France's storied TGV high-speed rail service began in 1981 with a single line, between Paris and Lyon.

"Everybody saw how great it was and how successful it was, and then other parts of France scrambled for high-speed rail," Simpson said. "Ray LaHood and the Department of Transportation has to decide: Is someone going to be king or are you going to spread it around? Do you pick the Midwest corridors? Do you pick the planning that's furthest along? That's the dilemma."

Last edited by Rusty Gull; Mar 12, 2009 at 3:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2009, 4:32 AM
Jared's Avatar
Jared Jared is offline
senior something
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 4,051
You know, I've never really figured out the logic behind some of their HSR corridor designations. Why is it that Dallas-Little Rock is a HSR route, but Dallas-Houston isnt (and Houston-San Antonio for that matter, completing the socalled "Texas Triangle")?

Oh, and that map is just screaming to have a line run fromDetroit, connect with an extention from the one ending at Buffalo, and continue to Montreal (and Quebec City).
__________________
My Diagrams My Photos

I'm not the guy from Subway.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2009, 2:13 PM
Spikester Spikester is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancouver - Coal Harbour
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared View Post
You know, I've never really figured out the logic behind some of their HSR corridor designations. Why is it that Dallas-Little Rock is a HSR route, but Dallas-Houston isnt (and Houston-San Antonio for that matter, completing the socalled "Texas Triangle")?
Strictly political. This allows the Texas congressional delegation to support the plan without risking the ire of Southwest Airlines, which makes a fortune from their DAL-HOU shuttle and has bitterly opposed various HSR initiatives in the Texas legislature for decades.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2009, 6:04 PM
WarrenC12's Avatar
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: East OV!
Posts: 24,608
Damn where's the Eugene to Sacramento stretch? Oh well, some day maybe I'll be able to take the train to SanFran in a day.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2009, 7:30 AM
KPELLY KPELLY is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Vancouver
Posts: 159
Seems crazy to me too as you could make a Texas triangle or just houston ----> dallas. I had no idea Little Rock's metro had over 800 000 though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:46 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.