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  #41  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 11:07 AM
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this is sad....it could have really brought back tourists to the park. i remember when i was little, there were whordes of people up there taking pictures. 12 years later, it's quite empty.

we're really an unprogressive bunch (at least the park board), driven by NIMBY's.

who wants to start a petition?
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  #42  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 2:25 PM
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so sad that this one is dead.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 3:51 PM
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I would rebuild the Conservatory to have a platform on top, in addition to the tree thinning. Tourists always go for views, and this would bring em in. One of the best views of the city from the south, we need to milk it for all its worth.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 4:58 PM
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I was never in love with the design of the tower, though I am keen on a formal lookout of some sort. So I guess I'm with the Parks Board on this one. Lop down the trees and come up with a comprehensive plan to revitalize the park as a destination.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 5:24 PM
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The decision was inevitable. There were too many neighbours against it -- and the fact that the park board was ruling on this made the outcome a given.

My concern is that the folks who live nearby believe it is their private playground. Heaven forbid more than a dozen people should enjoy the park on any given summer afternoon.

I appreciated that the Vancouver Tai Chi society came forward to support the project, since they would like Q.E Park to have more tourist appeal. Too bad their enlightenment was quashed at the hands of the Ned Jacobs crowd.

I guess the question now becomes: how willing are Vancouver taxpayers willing to subsidize the other amenities in this park, since tour groups (and most Vancouverites, for that matter) really have no interest in it?

What's really a shame is the signal it gives to progressive architects in our city, such as Richard Henriquez -- that it's not worth coming up with interesting ideas, since the Nimbies will ridicule almost anything that represents development.

I know that Henriquez will be disappointed with the outcome... but he was also disappointed with the process. The media, for the most part, never gave him or the project a fair shake.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 5:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Gull View Post
The media, for the most part, never gave him or the project a fair shake.
I think it's more to do with the fact that the structure looked foreign and out of place in a Park environment.
If anyone is to blame it's the architect, who should have been more sensitive and worked with the natural environment and not against it.
Personally, I like the park for what it is, view or not. At the same time, I think that if they put forth some type of proposal that would feature incorporating a large decking into the side of the hill, and only removing selected trees, it would have gone ahead.
The City could do that on their own, no need for private business to capitalize on a view.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 6:04 PM
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Like SFUVancouver, I was never in-love with the actual renderings. However, I was in love with the notion of putting something iconic at the top of Little Mountain. Especially from one of Vancouver's most recognized architects.

I'm sure the architect would have been open to revising his renderings... but he was never given the chance. The shrill Nimby-ism sent him packing faster than you can say "Q.E. Park: Visitors Not Welcome" ten times fast.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 6:07 PM
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Park board topples tower, and curtain of trees remains

A greater question involves the fate of the conservatory at Queen Elizabeth Park

Pete McMartin
Vancouver Sun

Tuesday, January 29, 2008

Here is the view from Queen Elizabeth Park: You still cannot see the forest for the trees.

On Monday night -- some hours after this column was written -- the Vancouver park board unanimously defeated a motion to erect a 50-metre tall observation tower in it.

Its defeat was a sure thing, at least to park board vice-chairman Ian Robertson, who had come to this towering conclusion before the vote was taken:

"I'm so convinced we won't approve it," he said Monday morning, several hours before the vote, "that I would bet next year's salary on it."

That's an $8,000 bet in Robertson's case. (Park commissioners get chump change.) It's also a safe bet.

It was to have been constructed, owned and operated by a private company called Observation Tower Inc., was to have cost an estimated $10 million.

Its purpose:

To offer panoramic views of Vancouver.

The reason for its proposal:

In Queen Elizabeth Park -- originally established because of its panoramic views, since Little Mountain is Vancouver's highest elevation above sea level; the park has in the intervening years given rise to a curtain of trees that have blocked most of those views.

"It's what I would call 'benign neglect,' " said the park's superintendent, Alex Downie.

"Many of the trees were planted in plantation-style blocks and were allowed to grow without any thinning, so that now they resemble something like a hedge."

Locals, of course, like it this way.

Views, they can do without.

But a forest next door? Who wouldn't want that?

But Queen Elizabeth was intended to be more than a forest, and something other than a place where the locals can go to have a picnic. It was planned as a destination park for both Vancouverites and tourists, and the views were integral to that end. It is the reason the park boasts formal gardens, a plaza, a high-end restaurant and the Bloedel Conservatory.

Nonetheless, when the park board held a couple of information meetings about the tower proposal, the expressed view of the 300 people who attended was unequivocally and overwhelmingly against a tower.

Add on written submissions, e-mails and angry letters, and almost 70 per cent of comments were against the proposal.

So, the likely result?

Locals and the park will end up with a compromise. There will be no tower, but its opponents will have to live with the idea that trees blocking the views will have to be culled or trimmed. To replace the number of trees that do come down -- none of which, by the way, are rare or endangered species -- the same number will be replanted elsewhere in the park.

"There's 120 acres in the park," Downie said, "and plenty of places in it that can take more trees."

(As predicted, Wednesday night's meeting produced a compromise: The park board directed staff to develop a tree-management project to open up the views at the park.)

A greater and unanswered question will remain, though, about the Bloedel Conservatory.

What should its future be, and should it have a future?

It has been hemorrhaging revenue for the last few years, to the point where its net cost to the park board is approaching $400,000 a year. A tower nearby would have acted as a draw it could have profited from.

But the tourists have stopped coming. The Canada Line construction along Cambie, the resurfacing of the reservoir that erased 160 parking spaces, the tired and unchanging display of exotic plants and birds -- they've conspired to drive attendance down at the Conservatory while costs have climbed. In 2001, tour buses brought 28,000 tourists to it: In 2006, they brought 940. Overall attendance dropped to 60,000 in 2006 from 120,000 in 2001. (Ask yourself: When was the last time you visited the Conservatory? For me, 25 years at least.)

"More importantly than the tower vote," Robertson said, "we have to take a step back and think about the future of the Conservatory and what we can put up there. What should we do with it? Should we think about new displays? Should we consider things like holding symphony concerts in it?

"Should it be torn down or replaced?"

The last option is unlikely, since the dome is designated a heritage site. But whatever the park board does, it will cost money. Downie estimates the Conservatory would need about $1 million in repairs.

The structure is tired. It leaks. A geodesic dome might have been a novelty in 1969, but the gaskets between the Conservatory's 1,490 translucent roof panels are failing and haven't been replaced for 20 years. The panels need replacing, too. Most of them have clouded with age, and some of them have fractured from -- wait for it -- being walked upon.

Kids, who find it an easy climb, like to scramble up to the top of the dome when security isn't looking.

It seems the top of the dome offers the best views of the city.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 6:36 PM
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The Park Board are anti-park-change (NO to zoo, NO to Aquarium expansion, NO to dinosaurs, NO to tower, NO to tree-trimming, etc).

They aspire to be City Councillors when they grow up, who are anti-ANYTHING changing (NO to more rapid transit, NO to denser development, NO to stadium, NO to hospital, NO to trams, NO to tall buildings)...or at least they don't actually 'say' no, they just stall making decisions and slow down the processes so much with consultations and paper-shuffling and bylaws and bureaucracy that the project dies. It's just they're too chicken to actually say 'No' to people.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 7:22 PM
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I think the view cone from there should be removed if the park board doesn't want the site to be used for its views of Vancouver.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 7:41 PM
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^Agreed. What's the point of the Little Mountain viewcone when only a seagull relieving itself on the top of a tree can enjoy the vista?
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  #52  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 7:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Rusty Gull View Post
So, the likely result?
Locals and the park will end up with a compromise. There will be no tower, but its opponents will have to live with the idea that trees blocking the views will have to be culled or trimmed. To replace the number of trees that do come down -- none of which, by the way, are rare or endangered species -- the same number will be replanted elsewhere in the park.
"There's 120 acres in the park," Downie said, "and plenty of places in it that can take more trees."
This sounds like a good compromise. This way Vancouver taxpayers wont have to "pay" to enjoy views of their city and mountains. No doubt the tourists will come back as well.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 9:30 PM
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To me, the biggest issue with the tower was privatizing the view (making people pay for the view). I think that trimming or removing the trees is the sensible solution and will serve more Vancouverites than a tower aimed at tourists. Can you imagine taking a carload of family visiting town and having to pay $10 per head? We used to go up there all the time with visiting friends and family to show off the view - and now we'll be able to do that again.

Even in the article - it asks when the last time you were inside the Bloedel Conservatory? There's an entrance fee for that facility. Maybe that's why people don't go in very often.

Keeping the view free for all to enjoy is the best solution.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 9:49 PM
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Just scrap the viewcone.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 10:18 PM
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Just scrap the viewcone.
?
What's your reasoning? If we scrap that viewcone, er, we might have no view from the highest point in Vancouver, once developers block the view that people (used to) go up there for. The viewcone isn't the problem, Trees are the problem that are blocking the view.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 10:24 PM
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Yea, and the park board doesn't want to cut down the damned trees. Therefore, scrap the viewcone. If people want views of Van-city I still say an observation/communications tower should be built somewhere south/south-east of downtown
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  #57  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 10:33 PM
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Yea, and the park board doesn't want to cut down the damned trees. Therefore, scrap the viewcone. If people want views of Van-city I still say an observation/communications tower should be built somewhere south/south-east of downtown
That has nothing to do with the viewcone at QE Park! I'm just not following your logic.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 10:33 PM
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Well, Canadian Mind is expressing a point of view -- that we are all exhausted from these NIMBIES running rough-shod across Metro Vancouver.

These local residents have been so successful in making Q.E. Park their own private backyard that almost nobody visits the place anymore. As McMartin's article points out, in 2006, the park brought in a marginal 940 tourbus visitors.

Do the math: That's less than 3 a day!!!

Good for the tourists, I say. They have better things to do than look at some rather mundane forests and flora in South Vancouver. And they're voting with their feet.

But taxpayers will have to make up for their giving Q.E. the thumbs down, through increased subsidies to the conservatory. How long can this go on for?

Perhaps I'm being cynical, but if we turned over the parkland to Concord Pacific and Bob Rennie we would probably get more public amenities out of the site than we are now.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
To me, the biggest issue with the tower was privatizing the view (making people pay for the view). I think that trimming or removing the trees is the sensible solution and will serve more Vancouverites than a tower aimed at tourists. Can you imagine taking a carload of family visiting town and having to pay $10 per head? We used to go up there all the time with visiting friends and family to show off the view - and now we'll be able to do that again.

Even in the article - it asks when the last time you were inside the Bloedel Conservatory? There's an entrance fee for that facility. Maybe that's why people don't go in very often.

Keeping the view free for all to enjoy is the best solution.
I partially agree with you but no matter how much you trim the trees your not going to get a 360degree view of the region from Surrey, Baker to Burnaby mountain to the US border to the airport, Vancouver Island English bay, Downtown and the Nnorth shore mountains and everything in between. There is no place where you can get a view like that and without a tower you can only get a view of downtown and the mountains from the park. There are no other places in the city that can match the potential of this locations since all other places would be too far from the ocean and downtown or not high enough to fully clear the hills to see to the south. The only other place that can come close is Burnaby mountain but no mater how good a observation tower would be there it still wouldn't be as good as the one in Queen Elizabeth park. By the way im also surprised that there is no observation tower on Burnaby mountain, very surprised(whats the tower at the university used for?). The north shore mountains also offer a nice view, but you dont get the mountains in it.

Anyways personally I would of wanted the tower built, and the trees trimmed. The tower would still offer a superior experience but with the trees trimmed you would still get a decent view for free when just enjoying the park.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 10:53 PM
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this pic is from around 1992 ish

there was still somewhat of a view than

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