The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Uber makes traffic worse because there are more empty (no passenger) cars driving around serving zero purpose until they get another fare.

If you're referring to autonomous cars, they have the potential to increase the efficiency of vehicle traffic.

How is Uber different from taxis in that regard?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jonny24

How is Uber different from taxis in that regard?

Taxis are constrained by supply. Everybody and their dog can be an Uber driver.

[SpongeG]

not in BC, you need a class 4.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

not in BC, you need a class 4.

Easy hoop to jump. Taxi licenses were constrained.

[Coldrsx]

Just had a meeting today with a local organization with some Fed funding to partner on a ZEV education and awareness campaign that will (my part) include retrofitting older apartment/condos/houses to be ZEV ready.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Al Ski

We need to solve traffic through sensible city design.
EV's will do nothing to solve traffic, they may actually make it worse (like UBER).
"We have more cars but it's OK, they're green!"
So far, just another profit generating greenwashing initiative.

Maybe bureaucrats and politicians should make decisions based on what the people want.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Maybe bureaucrats and politicians should make decisions based on what the people want.

We have elections. Sorry your party lost.

[Nouvellecosse]

I agree that EVs and automation are green washing if they're advertised as being basically the only thing that's needed to solve environmental problems. But I don't agree that they're not an extremely useful piece of the puzzle. The green washing is people using them as an excuse not to do things like drive less, fix car oriented / low density design, or improve public transit. The problem isn't the technology itself or people simply promoting the technology with realistic claims.

[whatnext]

The future is now. Or maybe not:

No charging spots and a strained electrical grid. Welcome to the electric vehicle boom.
-EVs are expected to boom in popularity by 2030. Whether that green switch will be without its problems is far from a sure thing.
By Jason McBride
December 13, 2021

....Level 2 chargers are quite common, but installing one wasn’t as easy as the Nelsons had thought. Level 2s have about the same electrical needs as a dryer or stove—240 volts/30 amps—and the Nelsons’ house, like most older Canadian homes, was only wired for 100 amps. They also have a pool and air conditioning, and in the middle of summer, with both the pool pump and the AC running, charging the Bolt could overload their electrical panel. They needed to upgrade to 200 amps, meaning several thousand more dollars and digging up their yard to lay in the proper electrical service.

Then the Nelsons’ contractor gave them worse news. If three or four houses on the block all did the same upgrade, he said, pointing to a nearby transformer, the system would blow. “Basically, he said that hasn’t changed,” Rob Nelson recalled. “This whole infrastructure would need to be changed if all these houses go to 200 amps.”....

....Meanwhile, the number of people charging at public stations may soon outgrow the number of spots available—and increasing that number will, obviously, tax the grid even more. Claude El-Bayeh, a researcher at Concordia University who’s developing algorithms for EV charging to optimize their energy use, argues that current, uncoordinated charging could lead to “blackouts” if millions of EVs charge simultaneously.....

https://www.macleans.ca/society/tech...-vehicle-boom/

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The future is now. Or maybe not:

No charging spots and a strained electrical grid. Welcome to the electric vehicle boom.
-EVs are expected to boom in popularity by 2030. Whether that green switch will be without its problems is far from a sure thing.
By Jason McBride
December 13, 2021

....Level 2 chargers are quite common, but installing one wasn’t as easy as the Nelsons had thought. Level 2s have about the same electrical needs as a dryer or stove—240 volts/30 amps—and the Nelsons’ house, like most older Canadian homes, was only wired for 100 amps. They also have a pool and air conditioning, and in the middle of summer, with both the pool pump and the AC running, charging the Bolt could overload their electrical panel. They needed to upgrade to 200 amps, meaning several thousand more dollars and digging up their yard to lay in the proper electrical service.

Then the Nelsons’ contractor gave them worse news. If three or four houses on the block all did the same upgrade, he said, pointing to a nearby transformer, the system would blow. “Basically, he said that hasn’t changed,” Rob Nelson recalled. “This whole infrastructure would need to be changed if all these houses go to 200 amps.”....

....Meanwhile, the number of people charging at public stations may soon outgrow the number of spots available—and increasing that number will, obviously, tax the grid even more. Claude El-Bayeh, a researcher at Concordia University who’s developing algorithms for EV charging to optimize their energy use, argues that current, uncoordinated charging could lead to “blackouts” if millions of EVs charge simultaneously.....

https://www.macleans.ca/society/tech...-vehicle-boom/

Easy fix for this:

https://dccelectric.com/dcc-9/

Plug your car in, if your panel is close to maxing, it will shut down the car charging.

[Truenorth00]

The grid FUD is getting hilarious. It's amazing how quickly this talking point got pressed back into service as EV sales share took off this year.

Utilities have known this for a while. This is why they keep track of homes and businesses upgrading their service. There isn't a utility in the country that isn't planning on upgrading their infrastructure to get a piece of the market. Nor is there one that so fears infrastructure failure that they are discouraging EV adoption. Quite the opposite actually.

It's always amazing to me that internet randos seem to think that thousands of utility professionals have not thought about this at all and were just waiting for some stable genius to tell them that EVs will increase demand.

[travis3000]

I had to upgrade my house from 100amps to 200amps for this reason. We have a hot tub, as well as all electric appliances, electric fireplace, etc. So my uncle (he's a master electrician) came over, added a second box in the garage and the plugs. It's also a great investment for future resale value. Not many buyers care now, but 5-10 years down the road when EVs are more mainstream... people will be looking for this stuff. I can see the real estate ads already "200 AMP Electrical Upgrade: EV Friendly".

[theman23]

Toyota plans to launch 30 BEVs by 2030 and plans for Lexus to be all BEV by that year

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...-electric-cars

[WarrenC12]

If you have an EV (or two), and fully electric heating, you'll want 200A, no doubt. 100A is still sufficient for most homes though. Being smarter about it with devices like I posted is an easy option if you can't upgrade.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by theman23

Toyota plans to launch 30 BEVs by 2030 and plans for Lexus to be all BEV by that year

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...-electric-cars

Too little. Too late.

30% of their production by 2030? The Chinese OEMs will have eaten them alive by then.

And it's not just the Chinese. There's new OEMs jumping in. Just look at Vietnamese company Vinfast entering the US market with a pair of electric SUVs designed by no less than Pininfarina. I suspect Toyota's timeline is going to accelerate every competitors plans. They smell blood in the water.

[theman23]

They'll be fine. Much of Toyota's revenue is from Japan, where BEV adoption rate are still low, and the lower end of the market where no one has yet even planned a BEV that compares to an ICE vehicle. It makes sense to focus the BEV rollout on North America and Europe as well as the middle-upper end of the market.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The grid FUD is getting hilarious. It's amazing how quickly this talking point got pressed back into service as EV sales share took off this year.

Utilities have known this for a while. This is why they keep track of homes and businesses upgrading their service. There isn't a utility in the country that isn't planning on upgrading their infrastructure to get a piece of the market. Nor is there one that so fears infrastructure failure that they are discouraging EV adoption. Quite the opposite actually.

It's always amazing to me that internet randos seem to think that thousands of utility professionals have not thought about this at all and were just waiting for some stable genius to tell them that EVs will increase demand.

Macleans isn’t exactly an internet rando. We keep hearing how unrobust much of the North American grid is, witness PG&E’s failures in California. We’re supposed to believe they’ll be able to easily meet this demand?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Macleans isn’t exactly an internet rando.

The freelancer they hired to write that trash piece (who never even bothered to interview any major utility execs) might as well be. That article flies in the face of reality where the biggest proponents of EVs in Canada have been utilities. The second largest charging network in the country, behind Tesla, is the Electric Circuit, owned by Hydro Quebec. And they only operate in Quebec and Eastern Ontario unlike Tesla. That freelancer took a bunch of anecdotes that warmed up his confirmation bias and ran with it. No actual statistics. No discussions with the major utilities in the cities he cited (Toronto and Winnipeg). No discussions with the charging networks.

I don't blame him for cashing in on ignorance of the topic though. I will say, I have a lot less respect for Macleans after reading that.....

Originally Posted by whatnext

We keep hearing how unrobust much of the North American grid is, witness PG&E’s failures in California. We’re supposed to believe they’ll be able to easily meet this demand?

What does a poorly run utility from another country have to do with Canada?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Macleans isn’t exactly an internet rando. We keep hearing how unrobust much of the North American grid is, witness PG&E’s failures in California. We’re supposed to believe they’ll be able to easily meet this demand?

BC Hydro has repeatedly been asked if there is a power shortage looming, and they always say no, EVs are in their plans for the future.

We even get some people saying Site C is a white elephant and we'll never need that power.

I trust BC Hydro over a Macleans rando.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I trust BC Hydro over a Macleans rando.

Wasn't even a Maclean's staff writer.