[Halifax] Scotia Square Redevelopment | Completed

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Based on the renderings the wide side would be harbour facing (the "length" of the bulding runs North-South)

Perhaps I misread it. I thought the wide side ran along Duke, across from the Scotiabank Centre.

Either way, I think it looks pretty decent.

[Jonovision]

Wow! That is a dramatic change from the 3 storey office building. I think the design is a little on the wide side, but it shows promise. The architects have done some really good projects in other cities.

The fact that this is the 4th tower to ask for a variance for width in the Downtown Plan Area leads me to one of two possible issues that I believe should be looked at.
1. Due to the constraints on other parts of projects, mainly the viewplanes limiting heights, that projects are not completely viable without the added units that the wider towers allow. (skeptical on this one)
2. The design review committee lacks the legislative power to really deny variances of this nature as we have yet to see them make any substantial changes to a development that was brought before them.

[Dmajackson]

Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson)

[Dmajackson]

Ground-floor masonry work has commenced!


Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson)

[dtown]

I know this may not be new news anymore, but I was just reading on Halifax ReTales that the "Canadian Language Learning Centre" is going in the former GoodLife spot where many here were hoping for a Sobeys of some sort. I suppose any tenant is better than no tenant however it is definitely disappointing to hear. Especially since let's be honest that's a pretty boring tenant for such a large space. A Sobeys really would have been great for the area and the mall with all the new residential projects going up. Here's hoping they can find another spot for a grocery store or some sort downtown.

[Grav]

Originally Posted by dtown

I know this may not be new news anymore, but I was just reading on Halifax ReTales that the "Canadian Language Learning Centre" is going in the former GoodLife spot where many here were hoping for a Sobeys of some sort. I suppose any tenant is better than no tenant however it is definitely disappointing to hear. Especially since let's be honest that's a pretty boring tenant for such a large space. A Sobeys really would have been great for the area and the mall with all the new residential projects going up. Here's hoping they can find another spot for a grocery store or some sort downtown.

I'm not surprised. The whole upper floor of the mall is a waste of a retail opportunity. All those call centers used to be department stores and shops. When they closed crombie made it all offices. And now here we are bleeding business to big box mistakes like bayers lake and Dartmouth "sprawling" I like to call it. There are very few buildings in the core that can accommodate large retail and most of them are in scotia square. It would be nice to have a winners/home sense up there or something along those lines. The bell Aliant call center has street front access for heavens sakes. I've always thought it would be an appropriate place for staples as well. Their current building is inappropriate for the direction downtown is moving in.

On a side note, I am against the glazing and natural stone asthetic of the new additions to Scotia Square. If you're going to add something onto a large complex like this you should carry the original materials through to the new structures. That textured concrete and brick. If done well it would look great, and you wouldn't have the harsh contrast between the new and old. Embrace and work with the concrete in a tasteful way, not just ignore it and cover it up!

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Grav

I'm not surprised. The whole upper floor of the mall is a waste of a retail opportunity. All those call centers used to be department stores and shops. When they closed crombie made it all offices. And now here we are bleeding business to big box mistakes like bayers lake and Dartmouth "sprawling" I like to call it. There are very few buildings in the core that can accommodate large retail and most of them are in scotia square. It would be nice to have a winners/home sense up there or something along those lines. The bell Aliant call center has street front access for heavens sakes. I've always thought it would be an appropriate place for staples as well. Their current building is inappropriate for the direction downtown is moving in.

Well... where does one begin? The upper level is now offices and not retail because - retail was there for years and didn't work. What would suggest to you that new retail there would work when 25 years of retail history suggests it would fail?

BTW, the OP's reference to Goodlife's former location is on the lower level, in about the worst spot one could put retail. buried at the back of an area that gets little traffic.

On a side note, I am against the glazing and natural stone asthetic of the new additions to Scotia Square. If you're going to add something onto a large complex like this you should carry the original materials through to the new structures. That textured concrete and brick. If done well it would look great, and you wouldn't have the harsh contrast between the new and old. Embrace and work with the concrete in a tasteful way, not just ignore it and cover it up!

Well, everybody likes to trash the look of the place. That might be a reason why they chose to try something different.

[Jonovision]

20160912_105647 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20160912_105659 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

[Keith P.]

Is that stone veneer? Looks almost like concrete block in that pic.

[Jonovision]

20161030_165342 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

[JET]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Is that stone veneer? Looks almost like concrete block in that pic.

Given the gaps at the corners, it must be veneer vs. block.

[Jonovision]

The old support for the pedway has been replaced by steel.

20161121_164052 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20161121_164120 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20161121_164217 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

[Takeo]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Well... where does one begin? The upper level is now offices and not retail because - retail was there for years and didn't work. What would suggest to you that new retail there would work when 25 years of retail history suggests it would fail?

The answer to your question is in a quote in the post you replied to... i.e. "all the new residential projects going up"

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Takeo

The answer to your question is in a quote in the post you replied to... i.e. "all the new residential projects going up"

A long way to go yet before those get occupied and demand for retail is reassessed. There is no shortage of underused/unused retail space downtown.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

A long way to go yet before those get occupied and demand for retail is reassessed. There is no shortage of underused/unused retail space downtown.

I feel like there's an oversupply of office space downtown too... and most construction downtown lately has been primarily residential.

Is there too much of everything? LOL

[someone123]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

I feel like there's an oversupply of office space downtown too... and most construction downtown lately has been primarily residential.

Is there too much of everything? LOL

The residential construction might drive a bit of office demand in the long run. Transportation options into downtown Halifax aren't great so locating housing nearby is the next-best thing. This has been playing out in lots of larger cities around North America. More and more professionals prefer to live in the city for one reason or another and so high-value office jobs are moving downtown. This trend might be playing out already in Halifax but may just be hidden by the fact that there are also public-sector employers that are far behind the times and less competitive. DHX corporate offices for example are on Spring Garden Road, not in an office park in Bedford.

Residents create more demand for retail space than office workers. The Scotia Square model of office towers plus a mall never really panned out anywhere except areas that are also major transportation hubs.

I think the office glut in Halifax is itself a bit overblown. The new buildings have attracted marquee tenants. The older buildings will tend to lose those tenants, but why do we expect that a 30-50+ year old office building must always attract tenants willing to pay prime rates? It is healthy for the city for those buildings to move downmarket and attract tenants who cannot pay as much. One example of this is Volta Labs moving into the Maritime Centre.

The story with businesses moving from Argyle or Barrington to Gottingen is similar. The city would be way more interesting and much better off if Barrington-Argyle were the higher-end area with more chains and Gottingen were a more developed alternative retail area for mom and pops and the like.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by someone123

The residential construction might drive a bit of office demand in the long run. Transportation options into downtown Halifax aren't great so locating housing nearby is the next-best thing. This has been playing out in lots of larger cities around North America. More and more professionals prefer to live in the city for one reason or another and so high-value office jobs are moving downtown. This trend might be playing out already in Halifax but may just be hidden by the fact that there are also public-sector employers that are far behind the times and less competitive. DHX corporate offices for example are on Spring Garden Road, not in an office park in Bedford.

Residents create more demand for retail space than office workers. The Scotia Square model of office towers plus a mall never really panned out anywhere except areas that are also major transportation hubs.

I think the office glut in Halifax is itself a bit overblown. The new buildings have attracted marquee tenants. The older buildings will tend to lose those tenants, but why do we expect that a 30-50+ year old office building must always attract tenants willing to pay prime rates? It is healthy for the city for those buildings to move downmarket and attract tenants who cannot pay as much. One example of this is Volta Labs moving into the Maritime Centre.

The story with businesses moving from Argyle or Barrington to Gottingen is similar. The city would be way more interesting and much better off if Barrington-Argyle were the higher-end area with more chains and Gottingen were a more developed alternative retail area for mom and pops and the like.

The yin and the yang.

[IanWatson]

Last I saw, downtown office vacancy rates were pressing towards 20% (and the Nova Centre isn't yet online). I don't think that's necessarily a good or bad thing for the city (though it's probably pretty bad for people who were planning to build office space), it's just part of the cycle. Historically, Halifax has office cycles that are approximately 20 years from peak to peak.

We'll see some buildings converted to other uses (e.g. The Roy, sort of), and we'll see some owners cut their rents to the bone, which is ultimately good for smaller businesses and startups.

[Jonovision]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

Last I saw, downtown office vacancy rates were pressing towards 20% (and the Nova Centre isn't yet online). I don't think that's necessarily a good or bad thing for the city (though it's probably pretty bad for people who were planning to build office space), it's just part of the cycle. Historically, Halifax has office cycles that are approximately 20 years from peak to peak.

We'll see some buildings converted to other uses (e.g. The Roy, sort of), and we'll see some owners cut their rents to the bone, which is ultimately good for smaller businesses and startups.

I could be wrong but I thought those latest numbers, 20%, included the Nova Centre space even though it is yet to go online.

On the subject of the Scotia Square Barrington addition, they have all the curtain wall glass on site or across the street on the parking lot. Sorry no pics though, my phone died last week so it will be a few weeks before I get it fixed and pics resume.

[Jonovision]

They changed the panels along Barrington Street recently. Not sure exactly when.

20170307_163221 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

And the glass has arrived.

20170307_163325 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20170307_163427 by Jonovision23, on Flickr