Canadian Transit Thread II

[Nouvellecosse]

With LRT vs battery electric buses (BEBs), while there may be a few cities who find that BEBs offer a good replacement to LRT, in most cases these are different things built for different reasons. Two of the biggest reasons cities build LRT and streetcars are:

a) aesthetics and image - wanting to appear more stylish, modern, progressive, urbane, etc. Sometimes member of the public see buses as a lowly utilitarian workhorse while seeing rail vehicles as something special. BEBs might improve buses' image a bit but they just aren't as flashy or glamorous as a "train."

b) capacity - LRVs can be longer since the rails allow them to navigate city streets when a bus that long couldn't. There are some LRTs that run vehicles over 100m long, while even the TTC streetcars which are never paired are 30m long compared to an articulated bus which is 18m long. So a city with a very busy, frequent bus route would want to replace it with LRT or streetcar to either add capacity by running them just as frequently or reduce labour (driver) costs by reducing frequency and maintaining the same capacity.

While high frequency can be good for passengers, an extremely frequent bus route ( more than say, 12-15 per hour or every 4-5 minutes) really isn't great since road vehicles bunch up. There can be two or three at once and then a long wait in between. That can still happen with fewer/longer vehicles as any TTC streetcar user can attest, but it happens more with buses. Especially since you can't really give signal priority to a bus running every minute or two since it would monopolize the light cycle but you can give it to a service running every 5 minutes or so. Plus, an extremely frequent bus service requires so many drivers. Reducing frequency from say, 30 buses an hour to 15 LRVs and hour would literally cut the number of paid workers in half.

So I can see BEBs replacing diesel buses and potentially attracting more bus riders, but I can't see them affecting the need for LRT services. If anything they would increase it by attracting more people to the system overall.

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The TTCs experiences with them have been fine.

Edmonton's problem is that they bought a bunch of proterra buses, which is a startup bus company which has since gone bankrupt.. it's a bad product.

The TTC has been buying new flyer EV buses - and they have had very positive experiences with them. Such a positive experience, that they have ordered over 600 of them.

The TTC bought 4-5 different brands of EV buses first and tested them out for a year or so.. the proterras ranked at the bottom on their evaluation from what I recall.

That’s good.

[rdaner]

This has been a great year for new transit lines in Canadian cities. What is going to be the next line to open? Maybe Ottawa's Line 2?

[Beedok]

That would be a reopening of an old line, but it does seem reasonably likely to happen soon.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by rdaner

This has been a great year for new transit lines in Canadian cities. What is going to be the next line to open? Maybe Ottawa's Line 2?

In Toronto, I think the Finch West LRT (line 6) is the most likely to open first.

A while ago, somebody at Metrolinx 'leaked' to the press that the opening date for the Eglinton Crosstown that was being discussed around the boardrooms was December 2024.

There's speculation that that was probably a deliberate move by the higher-ups to provide an absolute worst case scenario that they would surely beat to make themselves look good, so if it opens any later than that it would be very embarrassing.

Still, never say never with this project.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

In Toronto, I think the Finch West LRT (line 6) is the most likely to open first.

A while ago, somebody at Metrolinx 'leaked' to the press that the opening date for the Eglinton Crosstown that was being discussed around the boardrooms was December 2024.

There's speculation that that was probably a deliberate move by the higher-ups to provide an absolute worst case scenario that they would surely beat to make themselves look good, so if it opens any later than that it would be very embarrassing.

Still, never say never with this project.

This is the impression I've gotten lately as well, and has been a repeated strategy of this government on a number of fronts. Managing expectations.

I do not want to make a prediction on actual dates but if I had to guess I'd say late Spring / early Summer 2024.

[Innsertnamehere]

I'd be surprised if Finch opens before Eglinton, but I don't think they'll be that far apart.

I think we'll see Eglinton open Q2 or Q3 2024, with Finch being Q4 2024 or Q1 2025.

[GeneralLeeTPHLS]

I agree with that assessment Insertnamehere, although my skepticism of Metrolinx still clouds my judgement. If they manage to finish most of the remaining roadwork by March, I think me and a lot of locals will be much happier living around here.

It's been encouraging to see utilities being buried along Eglinton finally, and the roadbed being restored. Maybe this could be done by Canada Day if they want to make sure all the bells and whistles are ready.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by GeneralLeeTPHLS

I agree with that assessment Insertnamehere, although my skepticism of Metrolinx still clouds my judgement. If they manage to finish most of the remaining roadwork by March, I think me and a lot of locals will be much happier living around here.

It's been encouraging to see utilities being buried along Eglinton finally, and the roadbed being restored. Maybe this could be done by Canada Day if they want to make sure all the bells and whistles are ready.

just wait until the City drops Eglinton to 1 lane each way like Bloor St like they are planning next year - unfortunately I don't think driving around is going to be getting easier..

[Innsertnamehere]

As a part of Toronto's "New Deal" announced this morning, the province announced they would be providing funding for the operation of the Eglinton Crosstown and Finch LRT, as well.

They also announced funding for the TTC to purchase 55 new trains to replace the line 2 TRs, which Metrolinx will piggy-back onto with an additional order of 15 trains for the Yonge Extension and Scarborough Subway extension. The TTC had an RFP out last year for these trains but had to cancel it as funding didn't come through in time. Thankfully it can now proceed.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

As a part of Toronto's "New Deal" announced this morning, the province announced they would be providing funding for the operation of the Eglinton Crosstown and Finch LRT, as well.

They also announced funding for the TTC to purchase 55 new trains to replace the line 2 TRs, which Metrolinx will piggy-back onto with an additional order of 15 trains for the Yonge Extension and Scarborough Subway extension. The TTC had an RFP out last year for these trains but had to cancel it as funding didn't come through in time. Thankfully it can now proceed.

Holy cow. This is a huge, huge deal for Toronto and the TTC. 55 replacement trains alone were pegged by the TTC Board at a $2.3B price tag if funding could be secured by Q1 2024.

Edit: it looks like it is the province's share of the train replacement project that's been announced, not the whole enchilada.

[OTSkyline]

Originally Posted by Beedok

That would be a reopening of an old line, but it does seem reasonably likely to happen soon.

Line 2 in Ottawa also includes:
-Construction of two new stations and the extension of five station platforms on the existing Trillium Line to accommodate longer trains with additional capacity.
-Four new stations along the new extension and two new stations along the 4-kilometre Airport Link.
-Construction of a new Walkley Yard Maintenance and Storage Facility (MSF).

So new track and new stations. Not a net new line but more transit for sure.

[GeneralLeeTPHLS]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

just wait until the City drops Eglinton to 1 lane each way like Bloor St like they are planning next year - unfortunately I don't think driving around is going to be getting easier..

Oh that's fine by me. I don't drive, I just don't like the chokepoints that are still along many of the streets in that area. It would've been better to deal with 15 years ago, but this part of town is much busier now.

Anyways, I'm glad to hear the city made a deal with the province to get more funding, especially for more trains and operating funds for these new transit lines.
I'm not happy about Ontario Place being partly razed and rebuilt, but this deal still works out for Toronto long term.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

just wait until the City drops Eglinton to 1 lane each way like Bloor St like they are planning next year - unfortunately I don't think driving around is going to be getting easier..

I may be in the minority here but I actually prefer driving on Bloor post-lane reduction / addition of cycle tracks. The right hand lane was effectively blocked most of the day before, even during rush hour parking restrictions, and the addition of dedicated left turn lanes more than offsets the reduction IMO. I haven't driven the new section west of Runnymede though. Also wish there were more dedicated turn signals at key intersections (like at Bloor-Dundas and Bloor-Keele/Parkside).

[Innsertnamehere]

The capacity difference between a 2-lane road with a centre turn lane and a 4 lane road without a centre turn lane is surprisingly small - which is why Bloor operates relatively similarly to before.

Eglinton isn't a 4-lane road without a centre turn lane however. Its a 4-5 lane road with existing left turn lanes at major intersections (indeed, that is how Metrolinx rebuilt the street above the stations as the City had previously planned to retain that cross-section).

The original plan was for a 4-lane cross section to be maintained with left-turn lanes at major intersections, and that still left enough space for a cycle track. There was only going to be a relatively small 2-lane section between Avenue Rd and Mount Pleasant. This type of design moves a lot more cars than a 2+turn lane configuration, even with curbside parking in the off-peak periods.

The city hasn't found the money for a full reconstruction of the street however so wants to do a more temporary facility next year, which would involve a reduction in lanes to 2 through lanes and centre turn lanes. I think this is going to cause some particular havoc around the Allen - we'll have to see.

[niwell]

^Gotcha - I admit that I pretty much never drive on Eglinton for obvious reasons. 4 traffic lanes, dedicated turn lanes and a cycle track seems like the preferable configuration where there's room.

[GeneralLeeTPHLS]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The city hasn't found the money for a full reconstruction of the street however so wants to do a more temporary facility next year, which would involve a reduction in lanes to 2 through lanes and centre turn lanes. I think this is going to cause some particular havoc around the Allen - we'll have to see.

Given the tough place they are financially, I'm not surprised. I think many people already try to avoid Allen Road and Eglinton, but of course it's difficult given the road network in that area. I'm very curious if a road reconstruction will happen later on, and how they'll tackle it given how different Eglinton is past Brentclife to the east.

[rdaner]

Just on lines opening in 2024, the small extension in Edmonton will open in Q1 of 2024 (3 stations) and phase 2 of Montreal’s RER (18 stations) will open at end of the year. The Confederation Station on the Lakeshore Line of Ontario’s ZGo commuter system will open at the end of 2024. Also I expect to hear about an lrt for Winnipeg next year!

[cranes]

Grand River Transit Updates

https://www.therecord.com/news/water...ecc281744.html
Grand River Transit breaking records with more riders on buses and trains than ever before
GRT marks 3.8 million boardings in September, surpassing the average of 2.6 million boardings
Liz Monteiro Record Reporter October 12, 2023

WATERLOO REGION — Grand River Transit has had a month like no other.
The regional transit system is breaking records with the number of riders on its buses and Ion trains. In the month of September, ridership peaked at 2.9 million customer trips....

https://www.grt.ca/en/about-grt/perf...-measures.aspx


https://www.grt.ca/Modules/News/inde...e-5537cb4c997b
Conestoga College Students vote in favour of Grand River Transit U-Pass
Posted on Tuesday October 24, 2023

Waterloo Region – Conestoga Students Inc. (CSI) and Grand River Transit (GRT) are excited to announce Conestoga College students have voted in favour of a GRT universal transit pass (U-Pass) for the Fall 2024 semester.
Of the 9,463 students attending Waterloo Region campuses who voted, an overwhelming 93 per cent made their voices heard and supported the implementation of the U-Pass program at Conestoga College. The U-Pass referendum took place from Oct. 10 to Oct. 16, 2023.
The universal transit pass program provides unlimited rides on Grand River Transit buses and ION trains at an affordable price. Implemented through an ancillary fee on students’ invoices, students will save over $680 annually as compared to the existing GRT Term Pass.
The program will begin Sept. 1, 2024, if ratified by Waterloo Regional Council.

https://www.grt.ca/en/rider-informat...er-events.aspx
GRT Severe weather events

During heavy snowfall or freezing rain conditions, GRT may declare a severe weather event. When a severe weather event is declared, a number of bus routes will go on detour and stops will be closed.
The aim is to minimize service interruptions by routing buses around problem areas where vehicles can get stuck in snow or icy conditions.
Severe weather events will be posted at grt.ca/alerts and the @alertsGRT Twitter.
Stops that are closed during a severe weather event have a special blue sign below the stop marker.

https://www.grt.ca/en/about-grt/budg...proposals.aspx
GRT Budget 2024 proposals

Proposed transit service
We are proposing to add 53,000 hours of new service, including:
7,000 hours to make adjustments to address overcrowding and changing customer travel patterns.
33,000 hours to improve service around Conestoga College Campuses and the community.
2,000 hours will support expanded service to Elmira and Breslau.
Add an additional MobilityPLUS vehicle and driver.
Small frequency reductions are planned for routes 9, 27, 28 and 30, to reflect increased travel times and improve schedule adherence.
Description of service proposals by route
Route Description
Route 301 ION
ION frequency would be increased to eight to 10 minute service from 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. year round.
ION frequency would be decreased from 15 minute to 30 minute service from 5 to 7 a.m. and 8 p.m. to midnight.
...
...
Fare products and prices
Fare product Current price Proposed 2024 price (effective July 1)
Cash fare $3.75 $4
Stored value $2.98 $3
Monthly pass $92 $96
...
...
Advertising proposal
GRT is proposing changes to its advertising strategy to help fund transit service improvements.
Conventional buses: Increase the number of conventional buses available to be fully wrapped to 27, up from 5, representing 10 per cent of the fleet. This would bring in additional revenue of $300,000 each year.
ION trains (exterior): Wrap one ION train for approximate revenue of $200,000 per year.
ION trains (interior): Allow for interior train wraps, including walls and ceiling, excluding windows.

https://twitter.com/_ChanFace/status...42742033781153
https://linktr.ee/no_ion_30


https://www.therecord.com/opinion/co...370152a34.html
Service changes may put brakes on Ion’s gold standard of transit
Waterloo Region’s Ion light rail transit line is the best transit route in Ontario, writes Brian Doucet
By Brian Doucet Special to Waterloo Region Record November 16, 2023

Waterloo region’s Ion light rail transit (LRT) line is the best transit route in Ontario! I say this not as a regional booster or transit enthusiast, but as a regular rider and urban planning professor...

https://waterlooregionconnected.com/...2011#pid112011

11-25-2023, 10:39 PM
Looks like they have changed the plan for iON Frequency
https://pub-regionofwaterloo.escribe...ocumentId=6231
15 minute frequency during shoulder periods, 10 during peak
15 minute on weekends...

https://twitter.com/m_druker/status/...497367/photo/1

[Innsertnamehere]

reassuring to see the 30 minute service gone. That was ridiculous for a rapid transit line.

It's a shame the 8-minute peak service was lost though. Ideally we'd be looking at closer to 5 minute peak service.