Downtown Ottawa Revitalization Task Force

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

It is a function of Ottawa being a capital city without a well-developed private sector. If the Feds leave it is hard to see who would be interested in taking their place. A significant portion of the “private” office space downtown is also federal-related (lobbyists, consultants, professional services, embassies). Much of this will also clear out if the federal office footprint dwindles.

Exactly. We have established a high tech footprint but otherwise Toronto and Montreal are the go to location for expansion of white collar jobs in Canada and it's not the cost of office space.

Diversify is a good buzzword but PS is an industry like oil in Calgary. It generates huge wealth for the city and to replace it we will have to fight Halifax, Waterloo, Winnipeg etc.

I think focusing on making downtown more pleasant is the wheelhouse of the city. I know there are conflicting opinions but some of it is just scaling down our extreme Ottawaness. Some examples a Christmas market with Alcohol, allowing the private sector in some public spaces, maybe let non far grown food to be sold but charge farmers less. We constantly have these European idealized ideas but without the funding or culture.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

As a federal employee, we g=have been told that work from home is here to stay in some form.

The buildings I used to work out of in Bells Connors are being modified to function as temporary offices on an as needed basis. If you want to come to one of these buildings for a day, you take a cube for that day.

This is exactly what I said above. A lot of the space is going to be reconfigured to swing and co-working spaces. Nobody is going back to 100% in office after this is done.

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

Some federal employees will return to offices on a full time basis if the work they do is of a sensitive nature.

About the only folks I expect will be mostly in the office. And a good chunk of the folks who have these kinds of jobs don't work in the core anyway.

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

In truth, the feds are drooling over how much money they will save on rents

Not just the feds. Industry too. Execs can whine about productivity losses. But I suspect that once the real estate is disposed off there will be far fewer complaints. Shrinking the denominator in the productivity equation works just as well as boosting the numerator.

The Public Service was easily a decade behind when Covid hit. And a good chunk of the issues we see stem from that obsolescence. But that is and will be corrected. Even if out of sheer necessity. I know, because in my military office, we had this exact discussion right before Covid hit. Several folks even brought up contingencies like a flood or fire in the building and how we'd work through without the tools. When Covid hit, we had to coordinate logging on with Slack, because there wasn't enough bandwidth to go around. Not the case now.

Originally Posted by acottawa

But if their talent is remote then it doesn’t matter much where their skeleton HQ is (and there is probably little reason for it to be in Ottawa at all).

I hope you’re wrong, because if you’re right then Ottawa is going to hollow out quickly in a digital nomad world.

Companies that are homegrown are more likely to stay. Shopify is going substantially WFH. And still didn't pickup and move to Toronto or Vancouver.

Also, Ottawa's tech scene is going to be substantially tied to the public sector. So that tends to anchor a lot of them in Ottawa.

But this is always a risk with any tech companies. They can move. They can go bust. Etc. There's nothing that can be done beyond making Ottawa an attractive place to work and live and a place to build businesses and grow talent. We know that tech workers prefer more urbane environments. We know that tech companies are heavily dependent on and value access to top notch educational institutions to provide a pipeline of talent. We know that transport links are very important to them. So build the kind of city and institutions that can grow and keep that talent.

[rocketphish]

Will Ottawa's downtown ever be the same? In a word, no
"Downtown is the heart of Ottawa. Without a vibrant core, tourism, for example, dies, along with a host of affiliated enterprises."

Bruce Deachman, Ottawa Citizen
Oct 06, 2022 • 6 hours ago • 4 minute read



How will downtown Ottawa emerge from the worst of the pandemic? Will it again be a’bustle with white collars and pot shops? Will residents move in to fill the void? Or will Ottawa Centre MP Yasir Naqvi’s fears of a dystopia, à la Detroit in the 1990s, be realized?

Downtown is the heart of Ottawa. Without a vibrant core, tourism, for example, dies, along with a host of affiliated enterprises: hotels, convention centres, tour operators, restaurants, the ByWard Market. Businesses won’t want to locate here. Professional athletes, looking for safe, clean cities in which to raise their children, will play elsewhere.

A boarded-up world capital invites little but trouble.

And it’s one thing to encourage workers to return. Janice Charette, clerk of the Privy Council, did as much last month when she urged that department’s employees to return to the office two days a week, suggesting that full-time remote work be allowed only under “exceptional circumstances.”

Likewise, Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson wrote to Treasury Board President Mona Fortier last spring, asking that public servants return to the core, ostensibly to support the businesses hurt by their absence.

But such steps, legislated or not, are like sticking your finger in a dike that’s already crumbling. The way we work has changed, and attempts to return to 2019 ignore the diversification that was already underway. You might as well try to bring back 8-track tapes and semaphore.

Workers appear content at home. An ongoing workforce analytics survey of almost 14,000 public servants, conducted by Ottawa-based Agile Work Evolutions Inc. (which this year was acquired by U.S.-based commercial real estate conglomerate Cresa), indicates that most don’t particularly want to return to the office.

The percentage of those who prefer remote work has jumped from 23 per cent in March 2020 to 73 per cent today. Those favouring office-only-based work fell from 43 per cent to six percent during that period, while those who want a hybrid also dropped, from 34 per cent at the pandemic’s start to 21 per cent today.

The survey also cites savings realized by a work-from-home or hybrid system, including reductions in commute times and office space requirements, as well as favourable environmental impacts.

But there are other considerations. Following Watson’s letter, for example, Fortier suggested that downtown could be revitalized by repurposing vacant office buildings into housing.

Naqvi, meanwhile, in July announced the creation of the Downtown Ottawa Revitalization Task Force to look at such issues as affordable housing and supporting local businesses.

“Hybrid work is here to stay,” he said.” It is our job to adapt to this new reality.”

How the feds respond should interest whoever becomes mayor: the national capital is, after all, also a municipality, and the vibrancy of downtown is crucial.

Mayoral candidate Catherine McKenney (who uses they/them pronouns) says they’ll work with the task force — a group that includes community and business leaders — to find innovative and ambitious ideas.

“We need to be realistic. All workers are not coming back to work all the time, so we’re not going back to those days.”

Mark Sutcliffe, also vying for the city’s top job, notes that the pandemic simply accelerated a shift to remote work, a move that was facilitated by the arrival of such technological advances as Zoom and Microsoft Teams, allowing easier collaboration.

“There’s no easy solution to that,” he says, “We need to get everybody together — the federal government, the provincial government, community leaders, business leaders — and work on a plan.

“Ideally, we should have people working downtown because it’s the right place for them to be, and not just for economic reasons,” he adds. “I see it as part of a broader strategy of what Ottawa is going to look like going forward, and how do we attract the best talent to the city.”

Sutcliffe on Monday released a plan to revitalize downtown and the ByWard Market, including converting office space to residential, adding more festivals and events and developing a plan for an unspecified “new major international attraction in downtown Ottawa.”

Both Sutcliffe and McKenney — Bob Chiarelli did not respond to requests for comment — recognize the value in working remotely, but agree that there are times when collaboration works better when people share the same space. Both think that city employees’ work locations should be determined on a departmental basis. Some workers, Sutcliffe say, prefer office work because their homes may not be ideal.

But also concerning, he adds, is just how remote remote working could become.

“If your job is not tied to a desk in a government department in Ottawa, then you could potentially live anywhere in the country.”

This, McKenney says, could benefit the feds and other Ottawa-based employers that could hire workers who don’t necessarily want to move to Ottawa. That, however, doesn’t address the downtown issue.

“It’s an opportunity and a challenge,” McKenney says. “The challenge is that we have some businesses in our commercial district that count on the commuter population, the federal office workers.

“The opportunities are to look at our commercial sector and those buildings. Certain floors in some can be converted into housing, mixed-use retail, commercial housing, artists in the ground floor. I really think that it’s going to take serious thinking about what downtown is going to look like.”

Sutcliffe adds that if people working for Ottawa firms or departments can live anywhere, the key is to give them reasons to call Ottawa home. “Ideally, we want Ottawa to be such a great place to live that even if the federal government says you can live wherever you want in Canada, you choose to live in Ottawa because you like it here.”

bdeachman@postmedia.com

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...e-in-a-word-no

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

[B]Will Ottawa's downtown ever be the same? In a word, no

And that's the wrong answer. It should not only go back to where it was, but surpass it. Get all these lazy self-entitled fat cats back in their offices, 5 days a week, and build back on that.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

And that's the wrong answer. It should not only go back to where it was, but surpass it. Get all these lazy self-entitled fat cats back in their offices, 5 days a week, and build back on that.

Lol self entitled fat cats. It's both the private and public sector office workers who prefer WFH because it's more efficient, increased productivity, and fosters better mental health.

How about we make a downtown that actually has proper residents, amenities, and reasons to go instead of crying about forcing office workers to commute downtown because you feel they are "self entitled and lazy". Modern office environments do not need people sitting in an office 5 days a week.

Repurpose the plethora of useless office buildings but keep some for swing offices or fields that need it. Instead of crying about the perception of work: our city needs to actually introduce something that would last and keep the downtown vibrant after 5pm... because it was always dead after everyone went home pre-COVID. That was a shit plan for downtown and always will be a shit plan having that direct core only rely on office workers.

[Fading Isle]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

And that's the wrong answer. It should not only go back to where it was, but surpass it. Get all these lazy self-entitled fat cats back in their offices, 5 days a week, and build back on that.

You want to reverse the increased productivity and morale so that a couple of fast food places can be busier at lunch? Seems short-sighted. The unavoidable work from home experiment was incredibly successful.

This presents a perfect opportunity to reorient our downtown to residents, tourists, events, and yes also office workers, instead of only orienting it to the office crowd. The most vibrant areas of cities are never their office districts. The financial district in Toronto is also completely dead other than at lunch.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by Fading Isle

You want to reverse the increased productivity and morale so that a couple of fast food places can be busier at lunch? Seems short-sighted. The unavoidable work from home experiment was incredibly successful.

This presents a perfect opportunity to reorient our downtown to residents, tourists, events, and yes also office workers, instead of only orienting it to the office crowd. The most vibrant areas of cities are never their office districts. The financial district in Toronto is also completely dead other than at lunch.

My sentiments exactly. Going back to a pre-covid world is bad news for Ottawa's development and actual longterm viability of our downtown core actually having life.

[vtecyo]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

My sentiments exactly. Going back to a pre-covid world is bad news for Ottawa's development and actual longterm viability of our downtown core actually having life.

Yeah - and no matter what people feel - we're not going all the way back to pre-covid normal. If government and private business want to retain employees - they have to continue offering WFH to compete with those who do. It's really not in their interest to pay for office space they don't use either.

I'd say this is akin to the long term change brought about by suburbanization and the automobile - maybe not on the same scale - but this isn't that new.

Hopefully there's enough redevelopment of downtown office space to housing to make difference. Of course we won't see apartments crammed at the density of cubicles - so it couldn't make up 100% of the difference. But since people who live downtown will spend more of their money there than a commuter would - perhaps it could make up a lot of the difference.

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by Fading Isle

You want to reverse the increased productivity and morale so that a couple of fast food places can be busier at lunch? Seems short-sighted. The unavoidable work from home experiment was incredibly successful.

This presents a perfect opportunity to reorient our downtown to residents, tourists, events, and yes also office workers, instead of only orienting it to the office crowd. The most vibrant areas of cities are never their office districts. The financial district in Toronto is also completely dead other than at lunch.

Hah, I knew that this would touch a nerve - I was deliberate in my choice of words to provoke exactly this kind of discussion.

Lots of layers to this so let me start with the good / potential: maybe the empty office spaces that the feds no longer need can be used by high-tech firms who employ younger work forces, who are likelier to live and go out downtown. That would be a big improvement over the bureaucratic fight-to-suburbia-at 5 pm of past years. Check on that.

BUT! Increased productivity... yeah, for some. There are hard workers who respect their paycheque and their employer. But there are also many (more than we care to acknowledge) who game the system, have two jobs without telling the other employers, and hide behind their WFH arrangement to their advantage. In the case of federal bureaucrats, I am astonished at how blind they can be at the real prospect of a tory government royally kicking their asses. But even without that happening, it really strains the morale of everyone who works hard to see that so many can get away with so much. It bakes in some pretty huge unfairness.

AND - to the argument that "we shouldn't get people to go back just so a few fast food places can fill up at lunch anymore"... I am speechless. Can this be any more insulting and patronizing to the downtown core? How many more poundings is downtown expected to keep taking, decade after decade... seemingly taking modest steps forward just to be knocked back again, and still be expected to be the city's cash cow? The attitude seems to be "up to downtown to reinvest itself, I am not gonna change" - "It's my convenience above all and too bad for downtown, that'll be their problem"... or, more glibly: "come on downtown, you can do it! you can reinvent yourself (yet again)! tell us when you do (and when you clean up your street problems, too, hehe) - we may go check out a restaurant or two then!"

As a city we want a lively downtown, and that means people living and working there, going to restaurants of all kinds and entertainment venues of all kinds. Keeping downtown vibrant should be a point of civic pride.

[Richard Eade]

There is no doubt that the forced move to more computer-based, individual, work habits has made some fundamental changes in the way work is done.

Instead of trying to book one of the two meeting rooms, workers can now schedule an on-line meeting at a time that best suits those attending. There can be many more meetings happening at any one time than there used to be room for. And, the meeting can include representatives from anywhere, having their speech automatically translated into any preferred language for each attendee. Everyone has access to a ‘white board’ and can immediately transfer supporting documents.

Working from home, individuals can schedule their lives around the tasks that they need to do for work, and vice versa. If they need input from another person, they can send an ‘instant’ message or an e-mail. They can even have an impromptu video-meeting for a few people. Their ‘commute time’ becomes the time it takes to walk from the breakfast table to their home-office. Wear and tear on their personal vehicle is reduced, as is the cost of their vehicle insurance; while their work-related parking fees have been completely eliminated.

Yup, we have reached Utopia – but only for some.

Not everyone thrives on independence, however. There will definitely be those who miss the ‘water-cooler’ chatter; the in-person contact. Not everyone is satisfied to have 1,357,964 ‘friends’ and to Instagram pictures of their lunch from their kitchen.

Just as in school (a time more recent for many on this forum) there were those who thrived doing their work independently; while others needed to be in groups. Those who tried to function in a way that did not support them, likely didn’t succeed. There is a reason that so few graduate, compared to the number who enroll in the first semester of the first year. Not everyone needs the same environment to work their best.

Downtown developed as a place where many workers gather to do their work. This built synergies. There will always be a need for such places.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

There is no doubt that the forced move to more computer-based, individual, work habits has made some fundamental changes in the way work is done.

Instead of trying to book one of the two meeting rooms, workers can now schedule an on-line meeting at a time that best suits those attending. There can be many more meetings happening at any one time than there used to be room for. And, the meeting can include representatives from anywhere, having their speech automatically translated into any preferred language for each attendee. Everyone has access to a ‘white board’ and can immediately transfer supporting documents.

Working from home, individuals can schedule their lives around the tasks that they need to do for work, and vice versa. If they need input from another person, they can send an ‘instant’ message or an e-mail. They can even have an impromptu video-meeting for a few people. Their ‘commute time’ becomes the time it takes to walk from the breakfast table to their home-office. Wear and tear on their personal vehicle is reduced, as is the cost of their vehicle insurance; while their work-related parking fees have been completely eliminated.

Yup, we have reached Utopia – but only for some.

Not everyone thrives on independence, however. There will definitely be those who miss the ‘water-cooler’ chatter; the in-person contact. Not everyone is satisfied to have 1,357,964 ‘friends’ and to Instagram pictures of their lunch from their kitchen.

Just as in school (a time more recent for many on this forum) there were those who thrived doing their work independently; while others needed to be in groups. Those who tried to function in a way that did not support them, likely didn’t succeed. There is a reason that so few graduate, compared to the number who enroll in the first semester of the first year. Not everyone needs the same environment to work their best.

Downtown developed as a place where many workers gather to do their work. This built synergies. There will always be a need for such places.

Not all home offices are ideal for work. Children, other family members and even pets can interfere with focus.

The growing lack of separation between work and home life was a problem before covid and has increased dramatically since the pandemic and the Zoom explosion.

I was the type of person who could work from home, before covid, but I chose to do so somewhat infrequently. It was good to work from home at times to avoid the interruptions from coworkers, phones and e-mail. But, some collaborative efforts are informal and best face to face, in my opinion.

However, the Zoom phenomenom with its constant technical glitches (that I experienced repeatedly with great frustration including this week) actually have brought the worst of both worlds. Now, the constant interruptions are at home as well.

I see a great usefulness with Zoom when it is difficult to get people together in person, but I am not sold in all instances, particularly for mentorship and building relationships that are just as important in the workplace as at home.

[Richard Eade]

Agreed. The idea that Work-From-Home is the greatest thing since pre-sliced bread is only held by some people.
(I also think that there is a group out there who, like myself, like to slice their own bread to their own desired thickness.)

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Fading Isle

You want to reverse the increased productivity and morale so that a couple of fast food places can be busier at lunch? Seems short-sighted. The unavoidable work from home experiment was incredibly successful.

This presents a perfect opportunity to reorient our downtown to residents, tourists, events, and yes also office workers, instead of only orienting it to the office crowd. The most vibrant areas of cities are never their office districts. The financial district in Toronto is also completely dead other than at lunch.

Agree I can't believe people are even claiming we should bring government office workers back to support fast food or really any business as bad as we might feel for many who are hardworking families now hurting as Covid supports disappear.

But the claim of more productivity seems doubtful. The measurable parts of government seems to have seen a drop in productivity. I don't imagine the vast swath that is difficult to measure is an exception.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by vtecyo

Yeah - and no matter what people feel - we're not going all the way back to pre-covid normal. If government and private business want to retain employees - they have to continue offering WFH to compete with those who do. It's really not in their interest to pay for office space they don't use either.

I'd say this is akin to the long term change brought about by suburbanization and the automobile - maybe not on the same scale - but this isn't that new.

Hopefully there's enough redevelopment of downtown office space to housing to make difference. Of course we won't see apartments crammed at the density of cubicles - so it couldn't make up 100% of the difference. But since people who live downtown will spend more of their money there than a commuter would - perhaps it could make up a lot of the difference.

Yup, fully agreed. It would be the natural progression to shifting the mentality and focus of our downtown, somewhere that can actually show we are the 4th biggest metro in the country instead of a sea of empty buildings.

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Agreed. The idea that Work-From-Home is the greatest thing since pre-sliced bread is only held by some people.
(I also think that there is a group out there who, like myself, like to slice their own bread to their own desired thickness.)

Lol, and that's why I said keep some areas as swing spaces for those who need the old style (which many who prefer the new style indicate: If you want to go in; GO IN! but don't act like the old way is better.

It's possible to reduce office footprint based on who wants to go into the office and who doesn't - forcing the ones who are more efficient with a newer model is not the way.

And it isn't the way to actually make our downtown something relevant or transform into something better.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Agree I can't believe people are even claiming we should bring government office workers back to support fast food or really any business as bad as we might feel for many who are hardworking families now hurting as Covid supports disappear.

But the claim of more productivity seems doubtful. The measurable parts of government seems to have seen a drop in productivity. I don't imagine the vast swath that is difficult to measure is an exception.

Many metrics prove more productivity for many employees and teams: "Productivity was up 13% for the people working from home, which is a huge improvement. Of that 13% increase, about two-thirds was due to the fact they were working more minutes because they were late less, and took shorter lunch and toilet breaks. Then one-third was that they were more productive per minute." https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...0per%20minute.

Just because some prefer to have office cooler talk and the "image of working" by being in an office - doesn't mean they were more productive. That's a façade.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Not all home offices are ideal for work. Children, other family members and even pets can interfere with focus.

The growing lack of separation between work and home life was a problem before covid and has increased dramatically since the pandemic and the Zoom explosion.

I was the type of person who could work from home, before covid, but I chose to do so somewhat infrequently. It was good to work from home at times to avoid the interruptions from coworkers, phones and e-mail. But, some collaborative efforts are informal and best face to face, in my opinion.

However, the Zoom phenomenom with its constant technical glitches (that I experienced repeatedly with great frustration including this week) actually have brought the worst of both worlds. Now, the constant interruptions are at home as well.

I see a great usefulness with Zoom when it is difficult to get people together in person, but I am not sold in all instances, particularly for mentorship and building relationships that are just as important in the workplace as at home.

Again, just because some people want a place to get away from home life or think there is a lack of separation, doesn't mean forcing the way back to the old model is correct. Everyone who I talk to: PRIVATE or public sector (as some like to act like it's only public sector) prefer the flexibility. Some prefer going in but many don't. It's a joke that everyone feels that those who WFH need to prove they're getting their work done because it's very evident when someone is not doing their work.


All these comments wreak of the fear of change or modern lifestyle, the reality is: you can't build a city based on old methodologies. COVID showed that Ottawa's core was a graveyard without the forced business sector, and it can't just be a place where you just have office workers in with no one living in it, no amenities for residents/visitors/tourists, or reasons to go downtown other than "I have to go to work". Our core needs to be reimagined with density+residents, proper amenities put in place, and places that people want to visit. This is something people should understand here because this is now wreaking of NIMBY vibes. Times change, or should we just stick to horse and carriage as our preferred method of transportation?

[lrt's friend]

As we work towards more and more personal isolation, I wonder what the long-term mental health implications are going to be.

Our downtown is doomed. It is as simple as that. There are fewer and fewer reasons to go downtown. For downtown to be successful, it needs to be the city's meeting place. If not for work, then what? Most of the other reasons for meeting downtown have already been eliminated. Condos won't make downtown a meeting place for the city.

My impression is that workers want to dictate WFH regardless of the opinion of managers. I have personally heard some pretty strident opinions on this that is now spreading into the volunteer sector where community participation and interaction is critical. Zoom creates fake community. I am involved with two community groups and the WFH attitude is killing both organizations.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

As we work towards more and more personal isolation, I wonder what the long-term mental health implications are going to be.

Our downtown is doomed. It is as simple as that. There are fewer and fewer reasons to go downtown. For downtown to be successful, it needs to be the city's meeting place. If not for work, then what? Most of the other reasons for meeting downtown have already been eliminated. Condos won't make downtown a meeting place for the city.

My impression is that workers want to dictate WFH regardless of the opinion of managers. I have personally heard some pretty strident opinions on this that is now spreading into the volunteer sector where community participation and interaction is critical. Zoom creates fake community. I am involved with two community groups and the WFH attitude is killing both organizations.

LOL, whatever you say (because all I said was condo development ). You're all right, we need to go back to the old ways: we have to stop using the internet. Modernizing is the devil

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

LOL, whatever you say (because all I said was condo development ). You're all right, we need to go back to the old ways: we have to stop using the internet. Modernizing is the devil

My point was that condos don't solve all of downtown's problems and zoom meetings are not the ideal solution in all cases.

Both are beneficial, but as I said, Zoom does not really create community.

In a previous post, I mentioned that I did WFH and I saw its benefits, but I saw the benefits also of collaborating with coworkers and volunteers in person as well.

So, please don't pigeon hole me.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

Hah, I knew that this would touch a nerve - I was deliberate in my choice of words to provoke exactly this kind of discussion.

Lots of layers to this so let me start with the good / potential: maybe the empty office spaces that the feds no longer need can be used by high-tech firms who employ younger work forces, who are likelier to live and go out downtown. That would be a big improvement over the bureaucratic fight-to-suburbia-at 5 pm of past years. Check on that.

BUT! Increased productivity... yeah, for some. There are hard workers who respect their paycheque and their employer. But there are also many (more than we care to acknowledge) who game the system, have two jobs without telling the other employers, and hide behind their WFH arrangement to their advantage. In the case of federal bureaucrats, I am astonished at how blind they can be at the real prospect of a tory government royally kicking their asses. But even without that happening, it really strains the morale of everyone who works hard to see that so many can get away with so much. It bakes in some pretty huge unfairness.

AND - to the argument that "we shouldn't get people to go back just so a few fast food places can fill up at lunch anymore"... I am speechless. Can this be any more insulting and patronizing to the downtown core? How many more poundings is downtown expected to keep taking, decade after decade... seemingly taking modest steps forward just to be knocked back again, and still be expected to be the city's cash cow? The attitude seems to be "up to downtown to reinvest itself, I am not gonna change" - "It's my convenience above all and too bad for downtown, that'll be their problem"... or, more glibly: "come on downtown, you can do it! you can reinvent yourself (yet again)! tell us when you do (and when you clean up your street problems, too, hehe) - we may go check out a restaurant or two then!"

As a city we want a lively downtown, and that means people living and working there, going to restaurants of all kinds and entertainment venues of all kinds. Keeping downtown vibrant should be a point of civic pride.

You’re a voice from the past that is sorely missed.

I’m sure people want a vibrant downtown. They just want it to become that way beforehand so they can partake. It’s someone else’s job to make things better…and so forth.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

Hah, I knew that this would touch a nerve - I was deliberate in my choice of words to provoke exactly this kind of discussion.

Lots of layers to this so let me start with the good / potential: maybe the empty office spaces that the feds no longer need can be used by high-tech firms who employ younger work forces, who are likelier to live and go out downtown. That would be a big improvement over the bureaucratic fight-to-suburbia-at 5 pm of past years. Check on that.

BUT! Increased productivity... yeah, for some. There are hard workers who respect their paycheque and their employer. But there are also many (more than we care to acknowledge) who game the system, have two jobs without telling the other employers, and hide behind their WFH arrangement to their advantage. In the case of federal bureaucrats, I am astonished at how blind they can be at the real prospect of a tory government royally kicking their asses. But even without that happening, it really strains the morale of everyone who works hard to see that so many can get away with so much. It bakes in some pretty huge unfairness.

AND - to the argument that "we shouldn't get people to go back just so a few fast food places can fill up at lunch anymore"... I am speechless. Can this be any more insulting and patronizing to the downtown core? How many more poundings is downtown expected to keep taking, decade after decade... seemingly taking modest steps forward just to be knocked back again, and still be expected to be the city's cash cow? The attitude seems to be "up to downtown to reinvest itself, I am not gonna change" - "It's my convenience above all and too bad for downtown, that'll be their problem"... or, more glibly: "come on downtown, you can do it! you can reinvent yourself (yet again)! tell us when you do (and when you clean up your street problems, too, hehe) - we may go check out a restaurant or two then!"

As a city we want a lively downtown, and that means people living and working there, going to restaurants of all kinds and entertainment venues of all kinds. Keeping downtown vibrant should be a point of civic pride.

Best comment I've read in a while. Thanks!

I think the idea that WFH is broadly better for productivity and mental health will prove to be illusory - there are lots of work-based reasons to get people together in person, starting with onboarding new hires and creating an environment ripe for collaboration.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Fading Isle

I saw this. It was a strange endorsement with no policy reason given. Naqvi just said: "I’m supporting @_MarkSutcliffe because he is a longtime friend. We often run together!"

He's my friend and we run together is not a legitimate reason to support someone for mayor of a capital city. He's faced quite a lot of criticism for it for what it's worth.

Sucliffe seems to have posted a lot of endorsements he sells as "regular folk in the community" , but looking further into them, it's mostly (or all) people he knows.

Originally Posted by phil235

Best comment I've read in a while. Thanks!

I think the idea that WFH is broadly better for productivity and mental health will prove to be illusory - there are lots of work-based reasons to get people together in person, starting with onboarding new hires and creating an environment ripe for collaboration.

Hybrid seems to be the way to go. Some in person working days is important to connect with colleagues, form personal relationships and for company culture, but forcing people to return 100% can be problematic for morale and may no longer make financial sense.