[Moncton] The Three Sisters - 20 Record Street | 3x58m | 3x15s | Under Construction

[mylesmalley]

I don't think projects should get a pass just because it's better than what's there now. Same point goes for the size of the investment. Those ways of thinking are the reason why Rogers was able to build their giant sea of parking next to a suburban two floor call centre in the heart of the city. Same thinking lead to the giant suburban Sobeys at the most prominent intersection in the area. Am I glad those two companies invested in the area, created jobs, and improved the land? Absolutely. Could we have ended up with designs that were more urban in character, inline with the streetscape, pedestrian friendly, and a more efficient use of land? Absolutely. Missed opportunities.

I'm very happy to see this project being put forward. Even as it is, I think it would be a huge improvement to that area, I don't think questioning some design decisions or pushing the envelope is being negative in the least.

[josh_cat_eyes]

So what if the developer paid some of the cost of relocating the NB Power substation across the street between Northumberland Dairy and the skatepark. It could be split with the city and the province. If this project is going to be built in phases over a 5-7 year period, that gives them ample time to relocate the substation and utilize that piece of land. As part of this project perhaps the city could negotiate the relocation of the transmission line to the south side of assumption starting at Vaughan Harvey ending by the RCMP barracks where the line starts to follow the water. This would mean the any future projects on the north side of Assumption (Downing Street, NE Corner of Assumption & Vaughan Harvey, NW Corner of Foundry & Assumption etc.) won’t have to deal with a giant transmission line being in the way.

I also noticed the whole podium is the same elevation so when it gets to assumption everything is raised up above street level. This is something that bugs me about Tanary Place, the building is lower than the sidewalk and therefore disconnected a bit from the street.

[MonctonRad]

Relocation of the substation across the street to the south side of Assumption is an excellent idea, but perhaps not for the 20 Record development. It would however free up considerable land on the north side of Assumption on this block for a commercial/retail development of some kind - something which would help tie in this part of downtown with the riverfront.

[adamuptownsj]

Saint John is combining and relocating two substations, one at each end of Union. The westerly substation is both close to the ocean and on a prime piece of land. It didn't seem to be too complicated or expensive, as far as infrastructure goes.

I noticed the whole section of Assomption south of Waterloo are part of the sports field complex property. Maybe put it there, and keep the lot across from the current substation open for development.

EDIT: looking closer, maybe the scrub immediately west of the dairy property between the trail/ballfield and Foundry's southern end would be the best place. City land already, same size as the current site (30,000 sq ft), access off Foundry just like the dairy.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Relocation of the substation across the street to the south side of Assumption is an excellent idea, but perhaps not for the 20 Record development. It would however free up considerable land on the north side of Assumption on this block for a commercial/retail development of some kind - something which would help tie in this part of downtown with the riverfront.

Agree. I don't think Lafford would be interested in waiting for the substation to be moved and then totally change their design. They have their land and their plans that they've invested a lot of time and effort on. They'll be proceeding with the property they've already purchased.

But moving the sub station across the street would be a great idea and would indeed open up a nice piece of land for development. I agree with adamuptownsj that between the ball fields and the dairy would be best. That would leave a lot more land east of the dairy for development.

Interestingly, when you look at the SNB property site map, it shows that the parcel of land that the sub station is on is larger than the fenced in area. It actually extends east and nicely fills in the corner of Assomption & Lutz. It would be an excellent property for development. Especially in light of Lafford's plans.


https://paol.snb.ca/paol.html?v=1.0....n&pan=01868338

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

Agree. I don't think Lafford would be interested in waiting for the substation to be moved and then totally change their design. They have their land and their plans that they've invested a lot of time and effort on. They'll be proceeding with the property they've already purchased.

But moving the sub station across the street would be a great idea and would indeed open up a nice piece of land for development. I agree with adamuptownsj that between the ball fields and the dairy would be best. That would leave a lot more land east of the dairy for development.

Interestingly, when you look at the SNB property site map, it shows that the parcel of land that the sub station is on is larger than the fenced in area. It actually extends east and nicely fills in the corner of Assomption & Lutz. It would be an excellent property for development. Especially in light of Lafford's plans.


https://paol.snb.ca/paol.html?v=1.0....n&pan=01868338

They wouldn’t have to wait! They could start phase one of there project now, and in the meantime the substation could be relocated. They are currently inhibited from use if the southern most portion of their lot because there is a power line crossing diagonally thought it. If this was to be removed, it would allow for better use of the full property and for frontage along Assumption Blvd.

It wouldn’t take that long to relocate this either, they would built the new substation, reroute the power lines, there would be an overnight interruption of power to allow for the hookup of the new substation and it would be done. We’re talking six months maximum.

It doesn’t even necessarily have to be on assumption, you could built it up by the storage units on the other side of Vaughan Harvey, that way it would be out of the way.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

They wouldn’t have to wait! They could start phase one of there project now, and in the meantime the substation could be relocated. They are currently inhibited from use if the southern most portion of their lot because there is a power line crossing diagonally thought it. If this was to be removed, it would allow for better use of the full property and for frontage along Assumption Blvd.

It wouldn’t take that long to relocate this either, they would built the new substation, reroute the power lines, there would be an overnight interruption of power to allow for the hookup of the new substation and it would be done. We’re talking six months maximum.

It doesn’t even necessarily have to be on assumption, you could built it up by the storage units on the other side of Vaughan Harvey, that way it would be out of the way.

Yes you're right. I'd be very surprised if the developer changes their plans to include the southern portion of the property, although it would make for quite the project. Eventually that sub station will have to be moved somewhere else. One would think that the Lafford development will spur more building in the neighbourhood.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

They wouldn’t have to wait! They could start phase one of there project now, and in the meantime the substation could be relocated. They are currently inhibited from use if the southern most portion of their lot because there is a power line crossing diagonally thought it. If this was to be removed, it would allow for better use of the full property and for frontage along Assumption Blvd.

It wouldn’t take that long to relocate this either, they would built the new substation, reroute the power lines, there would be an overnight interruption of power to allow for the hookup of the new substation and it would be done. We’re talking six months maximum.

It doesn’t even necessarily have to be on assumption, you could built it up by the storage units on the other side of Vaughan Harvey, that way it would be out of the way.

Here? https://paol.snb.ca/paol.html?v=1.0....n&pan=06491097

And for an out-of-towner, where exactly is Assomption supposed to run east of Vaughan Harvey? Both it and Ivan Rand will need to cross Jonathan Creek, which was uncovered recently anyway. What's the plan with this area? History?

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Here? https://paol.snb.ca/paol.html?v=1.0....n&pan=06491097

And for an out-of-towner, where exactly is Assomption supposed to run east of Vaughan Harvey? Both it and Ivan Rand will need to cross Jonathan Creek, which was uncovered recently anyway. What's the plan with this area? History?

I was just thinking up in that area, you don’t need a lot of space for a substation. Perhaps the little triangle of land between the road, rail line & Vaughan Harvey might do, or immediately across the street from that.

I believe that down the road they may have plans for Assumption to connect to west main or even to the 2021 Moncton-Riverview Causeway Bridge traffic circle.

Ivan Rand will connect with the other half of Ivan Rand in the more near future, probably winthin 10 years whereas the Assumption extension would be more like 20+ years.

[L'homard]

I cannot see a scenario where the city would want to get involved in any way with moving someone else's power substation, financially or otherwise.
Then again, they have no problem handing out my money to a privately owned sports team to enjoy a trip to China, and a worldwide arena management firm worth billions, so what do I know?

[MonctonRad]

Tower crane components have been dropped off at 20 Record Street!!!


Photo from Retail Talk & Share

They certainly aren't wasting any time on this one. They haven't even gotten their approval from PAC or city council yet (although I'm sure they realize this is a fait accompli in any event).

I think we may see the tower crane for 20 Record going up even before the tower crane for St. Bernard Square, even though that project was approved first.

[Monctoncore]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Tower crane components have been dropped off at 20 Record Street!!!


Photo from Retail Talk & Share

They certainly aren't wasting any time on this one. They haven't even gotten their approval from PAC or city council yet (although I'm sure they realize this is a fait accompli in any event).

I think we may see the tower crane for 20 Record going up even before the tower crane for St. Bernard Square, even though that project was approved first.

Wow! They really aren’t wasting time. I’m so curious about all of this. There must have been some back door conversations going on with council for them to be jumping this quickly on all of this.

[Philbilly]

Wow! They really aren’t wasting time. I’m so curious about all of this. There must have been some back door conversations going on with council for them to be jumping this quickly on all of this.

I have to say , this is the fastest major project I seen moving from rendering to construction in a while .

[Nashe]

That will be a BIG crane. Don't they normally at least start site prep (digging) before they deliver a crane? So they have a place to put the mount?

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

That will be a BIG crane.

Add to that St-Bernard's square which is planned to start this year too and there should be two VERY tall cranes in downtown this fall.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

That will be a BIG crane. Don't they normally at least start site prep (digging) before they deliver a crane? So they have a place to put the mount?

I'm sure they're just storing parts of the crane for now. The new apartment building going up on Lady Ada had crane parts lying on the ground for six months before they were finally assembled.

Lot's of site prep to do, especially excavation for the underground parking. I don't think we will be seeing the crane assembled until September or so.

[jonny golden]

Next step in the process is the planning advisory committee meeting tonight on this project.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

Next step in the process is the planning advisory committee meeting tonight on this project.

And no surprises:

https://www5.moncton.ca/docs/pac/PAC..._20_Record.pdf

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

And no surprises:

https://www5.moncton.ca/docs/pac/PAC..._20_Record.pdf

Its also been reported that with this development, the city is planning on removing on-street parking on Assomption Blvd. to add through lanes.

[MonctonRad]

CBC article about the PAC approval of this project:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...wers-1.6041966

According to the article, construction will commence by July, with the first tower (phase one) open by September 2023. Phase two and phase three will proceed as market conditions allow (ie - if the first tower fills up quickly, then phase two will proceed expeditiously and so on). I would imagine the earliest date for completion of the entire project would be 2027.

The majority of the units will be one bedroom, with a lesser number of two bedroom units. A small number of three bedroom penthouse units will be available. Lafford skirted any questions about affordable housing options in this development, and he is obviously planning on this being a high end development. This is OK. It's important to get downsizing empty nesters used to the idea of downtown living first. Mandated affordable housing can wait for subsequent developments.