Canada's 4th city

[feepa]

Originally Posted by biguc

Counterpoint: Calgary police wear cowboy hats.

I promise we're looking at the same thing, just from drastically different perspectives. When Europeans go to Calgary, it's for oil or Banff. And oil and Banff are the fountains from which Calgary's fourthness, in the pantheon of Canadian cities, flows. Whatever provincial feathers (Telus and WestJet and shit) it's stuck in its cowboy hat aren't going to suddenly propel it beyond what it currently is. Neither will being affluent or modern.

Nor will being unsophisticated hold it back. Vancouver, for what it's worth, is not a terribly sophisticated city.

And that's really the point: who cares? This is a pointless dick measuring contest on a dated message board for skyscraper nerds that's been hijacked by whiny old men. But, if you'd like, we can fight about which city has the most people wearing yoga pants out in public and act like that matters.

Milady.

It would seem like you care based on your numerous interactions on this thread. Are you the nerd or the whiny old man, or the pointless dick in this situation?

[Justanothermember]

A dick-measuring contest is a dick-measuring contest is a dick-measuring contest.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I didn't say what my answer to the question would be because I didn't want the thread to start off by saying how right or wrong I was but rather people's own opinions. Now that it has been discussed I would say it's definitely Calgary with Ottawa second and Edmonton a distant third.

Calgary is not just the financial and economic centre of Western Canada but the 3rd most important in the country. It is a huge logistical centre and has the most important airport by a long shot and no, that is not due to Banff but rather the city's economic heft.

Calgary isn't more finacially or economically more important than Vancouver, that's just you trolling again (unless you think Vancouver isn't in Western Canada?) It has just over half the population in 2023 (1.68m compared to 2.97m), just over half the GDP, and in 2023 it had 18.5m passengers fly through the airport, compared to 24.9m at YVR. Colliers show Vancouver's office vacancy rate is 8.6% (the lowest in Canada), with 4.7m sq ft under construction, and Calgary's is 26.4% (the highest), with none being built.

[ssiguy]

Justanothermember..............If this is just a dick measuring contest, then why are you on this thread measuring them? Are you insecure about yours or is there something you still have to tell Mom & Dad? In other words, if you don't want to discuss the issue, feel free not to.

The reality is that size and importance matter when it comes to cities. Whether that is logical or not doesn't change the fact that it's true. Name recognition means a lot when it comes to political, economic, social, intellectual, and cultural influence. Alberta is still smaller than BC but is far more influential on the national scale than BC has ever, or will ever, be.

I think one of the things that hurts Ottawa's impact is the fact that it is overshadowed by Montreal and Toronto. It's kind of like Philly............a big city but one you rarely hear about because it is right between the 2 big boys on the block, New York & Washington.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by DesignerGuy

The only reason Ottawa is not an airport hub is because of geography. It is placed between Toronto and Montreal, the two largest cities in Canada with Pearson being the premier airport in the country only a 45 minute flight away, it just didn't make sense for Ottawa to become a hub.

It's not the only reason Ottawa is not a hub. JFK and Dulles are as far apart as Toronto and Ottawa. Both are hubs. Ottawa lacks the demand to really be a hub. That's just reality. I think people in Ottawa forget that Peel Region alone in the GTA has close to the population of the NCR. Ottawa is a big city only by Canadian standards. It's not huge by international standards and the heft it has doesn't reflect the population because of its disjointedness as a bi-provincial and bi-cultural city. In this case, the whole really is just the sum of its parts.

Originally Posted by DesignerGuy

Calgary is an hub because it is quite isolated and is the largest city in the Prairie Provinces plus the oil lol

I feel Ottawa is always wrongfully stereotyped as a boring provincial city but it has changed dramatically in the last 5 years. Population is growing fast, we are a tech hub within Canada (along with Vancouver, Toronto, Waterloo etc...). Geographically we are positioned in a stunning landscape of forest, rivers, fertile farmland to the south and east and are close to major US markets.

Downtown to downtown from MTL to Ottawa is less than 2 hours (traffic permitting) and the two regions together are home to 6 million + people

Ottawa is a city of festivals - Tulip, Winterlude, Jazz Fest, Bluesfest being the more prominent that attract visitors from around the world.

Downtown and around the core are densifying rapidly and you can feel the energy when you walk around. LRT is extending to airport and the east and west suburbs. New library on a prime location is under construction, cranes dot the skyline, big city proposals abound.

My take is Ottawa and Calgary can tie for 4th but Ottawa being the National Capital might give it the edge over Calgary.

Citing proximity to Montreal kinda shows how weak the argument is for Ottawa. As for the rest, like transit, museums, festivals and skyscrapers? Every city in the world with a million residents has those. None of this is to say there's something wrong with Ottawa. It's a decent city. And I'm okay with living here. But if we're talking about national and international significance, Calgary is definitely ahead. It's the corporate centre of Canada's most profitable export industry. It's the home of Canada's other stock exchange. It's home to multiple corporate head offices. It's the gateway to the Rockies. And that's why they have multiple transatlantic flights and Ottawa has one.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Good post. But comparing Ottwa to Canberra? I won't stand for it.

Yeah. Don't know about that. I get the contextual comparison. But Ottawa is a whole lot better in absolute terms. I've had Australians themselves tell me this.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

You bring some good points. I think a lot of people assume that Ottawa is nothing but Government, but we have a significant tech industry. Our Univsersities (as the most educated city in Canada), hospitals (Ottawa Heart Institute for example) and reasearch field are also of some importance.

Again though, this is Ottawa bias. This town is substantially dependent on the government. And a lot of the tech sector here is also dependent on the government. And it's not nearly as big as say the tech sector in Toronto.

With all these discussions, I feel like Ottawa folks are so defensive, they ignore relativity and just list a bunch of things that feel like accomplishments to them. But most of that is something that every city of Ottawa's size has. Also, I suspect for long time residents the recent changes will make them feel like the city has changed substantially. But they also forget (in these comparisons) that other cities are changing just as quickly too.

To me Ottawa is a nice city. And I kinda like that it's not #4. Quality of life for residents sucks for cities that climb that ladder. Just look what Toronto and Vancouver offer their residents. Ottawa offers a better quality of life in the majority of cases than any other Top 6 city, imho. Montreal might be the only debatable comparison.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quite a few people have mentioned Calgary's edge in tourism and culture. Is this really the case? Sure it's a gateway to the Canadian Rockies so that drives some numbers, but do more people actually visit Calgary "for the city" than visit Ottawa?

Does anybody visit Ottawa for more than Parliament Hill?

[lio45]

Regarding whoever said Calgary is a logistics hub, when I lived in Vancouver I discovered that the business/logistics hub for the entirety of Western Canada in my sector of business (industrial) was usually Edmonton. Things that we needed in Vancouver and couldn’t find locally had to come from the Big City, i.e. Edmonton

(I have no dog in this fight, I’m neutral about Van-Cal-Edm. Didn’t even know who to root for of the Oilers or Canucks.)

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I just wanted to be first to say Okotoks, because I know someone else will. Also, I hate when someone starts a discussion and then says they will wait to see which way the wind will blow before offering their thoughts on it. So I will refrain.

But correctly using "capital" instead of "capitol" (and twice) must count for something.

[MonkeyRonin]

I'm surprised no one has yet referenced the infamous "big four" that a certain ex-forumer used to describe Toronto-Montreal-Vancouver-Calgary.

[Maldive]

Originally Posted by biguc

And that's really the point: who cares? This is a pointless dick measuring contest on a dated message board for skyscraper nerds that's been hijacked by whiny old men. But, if you'd like, we can fight about which city has the most people wearing yoga pants out in public and act like that matters.

Milady.

oh my nail meet hammer. Cheers to the "(former) skyscraper nerds" wherever they park their boats.

[Hackslack]

Safe to say Toronto is the center centre of the universe. None of the others matter.

Go Stars!

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

A dick-measuring contest is a dick-measuring contest is a dick-measuring contest.

But isn't it important for us to figure of which one of us is the biggest dick?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

But isn't it important for us to figure of which one of us is the biggest dick?

Toronto obviously has the biggest dicks. They're everywhere.

[J.OT13]

Acknowledging that I may be throwing a grenade in here, but as the World slooooowly transitions away from oil, will Calgary hold the same importance 30 years from now?

[niwell]

I think people are underselling Ottawa a bit, even if internationally it's most known as the place in brackets under a newswire article.

The answer is probably Calgary for the reasons already discussed but in my experience (as someone from there) it's not a particularly well known city outside certain circles. Most Europeans I've met know it as the place near Banff. Though it's certainly more on the radar compared to when I was growing up, which would have delighted 13 year old me.

The reality is if we have to start getting into semantics as to what qualifies a particular 4th city there isn't really a clear answer.

[jc_yyc_ca]

The answer is that the question can't really be properly answered.

I read somewhere once that the word Ottawa appears in media something like 4 times more than Calgary and the word Calgary appears in media 2 times more than Edmonton, but in the end it probably doesn't make much difference to anyone who doesn't pay specific attention to Canada or Canadian cities.

In all my travels around the world I have yet to find many people that know any of the three cities. Some people know Ottawa as the capital. Some people remember Calgary for the Olympics, or from being near Banff. I've met plenty of foreigners who have heard of Banff, but not Calgary.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Calgary isn't more finacially or economically more important than Vancouver, that's just you trolling again (unless you think Vancouver isn't in Western Canada?) It has just over half the population in 2023 (1.68m compared to 2.97m), just over half the GDP, and in 2023 it had 18.5m passengers fly through the airport, compared to 24.9m at YVR. Colliers show Vancouver's office vacancy rate is 8.6% (the lowest in Canada), with 4.7m sq ft under construction, and Calgary's is 26.4% (the highest), with none being built.

And don't forget the Port of Vancouver, which has a massive impact on Canada's economy.

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Justanothermember..............If this is just a dick measuring contest, then why are you on this thread measuring them? Are you insecure about yours or is there something you still have to tell Mom & Dad? In other words, if you don't want to discuss the issue, feel free not to.

Settle down. I just provided my opinion, and I can see that I'm not the only one who thinks it.

Enjoy the contest.

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by lio45

Regarding whoever said Calgary is a logistics hub, when I lived in Vancouver I discovered that the business/logistics hub for the entirety of Western Canada in my sector of business (industrial) was usually Edmonton. Things that we needed in Vancouver and couldn’t find locally had to come from the Big City, i.e. Edmonton

(I have no dog in this fight, I’m neutral about Van-Cal-Edm. Didn’t even know who to root for of the Oilers or Canucks.)

Industrial makes a lot of sense, considering the Edmonton area has tons of industrial land and is more centrally-located in the province. I think industrial land is cheaper here as well.