Congestion Pricing in Ottawa

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think you're using "tremendous" in the Trump sense.

I've been trying to stop using it It's been a part of my speech for a while, but unfortunately, "tremendous" hasn't been getting good press as of late.

The $20+ congestion charge in London reduced traffic entering the congestion zone by 16%. Streets in central London are still packed and administrative costs eat up 1/3 of the revenue from the charges. In London (again, a completely different city from Ottawa) it is still probably a net gain; it is hard to see how it could be in Ottawa.

London's congestion zone is not a model for us to follow. It opted for a flat fee to enter the city centre. Now this may be alright for a 24/7 financial capital, but not for Ottawa - there's no reason why anyone should pay anything to drive downtown on weekends, evenings or even midday because there is enough road space at those times for it to be free for everyone.

That's why the question being debated is not a flat-fee road toll, but a variable congestion charge such as Stockholm and Gothenburg. There, the price varies from $0 during off-peak hours and weekends to $3.30 at the highest peak hours (60 minutes in the morning, 90 minutes in the evening). The prices have been adjusted up and down depending on the observed congestion levels; if there's too many cars, it's upped, and if there are too few, it's lowered.

It's a much more focused and precise tool than what London put in place.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I've been trying to stop using it It's been a part of my speech for a while, but unfortunately, "tremendous" hasn't been getting good press as of late.



London's congestion zone is not a model for us to follow. It opted for a flat fee to enter the city centre. Now this may be alright for a 24/7 financial capital, but not for Ottawa - there's no reason why anyone should pay anything to drive downtown on weekends, evenings or even midday because there is enough road space at those times for it to be free for everyone.

That's why the question being debated is not a flat-fee road toll, but a variable congestion charge such as Stockholm and Gothenburg. There, the price varies from $0 during off-peak hours and weekends to $3.30 at the highest peak hours (60 minutes in the morning, 90 minutes in the evening). The prices have been adjusted up and down depending on the observed congestion levels; if there's too many cars, it's upped, and if there are too few, it's lowered.

It's a much more focused and precise tool than what London put in place.

Ottawa doesn't have a contained city centre surrounded by a ring road (or a wall) the way many european cities do. Different parts of central ottawa are congested at different times and from different sources. The inter-provincial routes get congested (and finish rush hour) much earlier than downtown ottawa, the market has no congestion in the morning rush hour but is heavily congested in the evenings and on weekends, the glebe and the neighbourhoods west of centretown are congested pretty much all the time.

Ottawa also doesn't have a way to get around central parts of the city without going through. All interprovincial trips have to go through central ottawa (at least until Wynne gets shown the door), most long distance trips have to go through central Ottawa (say people using the Trans Canada) and most east-west trips North of Baseline/Heron/Walkley have to go through central ottawa. So to the extent to which you "nudge" people, you're nudging them to take big detours.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Ottawa doesn't have a contained city centre surrounded by a ring road (or a wall) the way many european cities do.

It's still pretty easy to cordon off, as a previous poster demonstrated, not that I think it should be.

All interprovincial trips have to go through central ottawa (at least until Wynne gets shown the door)

Meaning...?

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Ottawa doesn't have a contained city centre surrounded by a ring road (or a wall) the way many european cities do.

This is an interesting point. However, it is largely irrelevant since the congestion zone in Gothenburg and Stockholm don't follow the old city walls, nor a ring road.

Ottawa also doesn't have a way to get around central parts of the city without going through. All interprovincial trips have to go through central ottawa (at least until Wynne gets shown the door), most long distance trips have to go through central Ottawa (say people using the Trans Canada) and most east-west trips North of Baseline/Heron/Walkley have to go through central ottawa.

This is currently the case in Gothenburg. But more interestingly, it was also the case in Stockholm before the congestion pricing. But with a part of the revenues from the congestion pricing, they are now constructing a city bypass. We could decide to do the same.

Different parts of central ottawa are congested at different times and from different sources. The inter-provincial routes get congested (and finish rush hour) much earlier than downtown ottawa, the market has no congestion in the morning rush hour but is heavily congested in the evenings and on weekends, the glebe and the neighbourhoods west of centretown are congested pretty much all the time.

Some of these, I'm not totally sure about (such as the 'early rush hour' on the bridges), but the point that traffic is not uniformly distributed across the city or time is entirely valid.

However, for all the little eccentricities and particularities of our traffic patterns, it is hard to deny that there are two generalized peaks of demand which are much, much larger than, say, traffic in the Market in the evenings. Nothing will solve absolutely every little traffic slowdown - but congestion pricing goes a long way to solving (and preventing the growth of) THE major traffic problem in Ottawa, namely rush hour downtown.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

This is an interesting point. However, it is largely irrelevant since the congestion zone in Gothenburg and Stockholm don't follow the old city walls, nor a ring road.

Stockholm is an archipelago, they just have to pick which islands they want in the congestion zone.

Gothenberg's congestion zone follows the highway, and a street called the the "ringogaten" which google translate says means "the ring street."

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Stockholm is an archipelago, they just have to pick which islands they want in the congestion zone.

Gothenberg's congestion zone follows the highway, and a street called the the "ringogaten" which google translate says means "the ring street."

Google Translate is mistaken. It means "Bypass [canal] Island Street" because there was a canal bypass which ran in that part of town at the turn of the century. That's why that street is not a circle, but rather a short straight street through and industrial district.

Again, all this is interesting, but irrelevant since the congestion zone does not even follow that street. For that matter, it only follows a highway halfway.

[Kitchissippi]

Congestion charges mostly work in cities where economic activity is dictated by geographic factors. I've been to Gothenburg, it's an active port town that sits in the mouth of a major navigable river. It also has an historic city centre where high-rise development isn't favoured.

The original reasons for Ottawa's existence, the Chaudières Falls and the Rideau Canal, have little importance today aside for the bit of electricity generated by the dam. Sure there is a need for some government offices to be close to Parliament, but most other activity is portable to any other location in the region with no disadvantage, which is why large departments like DND can move out to the suburbs. Aside from the Rideau Centre, downtown retail doesn't have the critical mass and is vulnerable to competition from suburban big box stores. Hopefully the LRT will be a game changer.

I think a congestion charge is too visible as an additional tax, whereas a levy on parking fees is easier to swallow as an invisible added cost, and can be collected without expensive infrastructure and administration.

[rocketphish]

Higher downtown parking rates would curb congestion: Report
The study was paid for independently by four city councillors who don't think widening highways is the best solution to downtown gridlock.

By: Haley Ritchie, Metro
Published on Wed Mar 29 2017

Adding an extra $2 to current downtown parking rates could help alleviate road congestion, according to a report commissioned by four city councillors.

In addition to the parking surcharge, the report looks at three other potential levies: a highway toll; a “cordon charge,” which would ding motorists each time they entered the downtown during peak times; and a higher gas tax.

“We’ve got congestion — it seems to be getting worse,” said Coun. David Chernushenko, one of the four city councillors who funded the report from their own office budgets.

“Let’s have the conversion about, Ok, (if we don’t want to widen roads) what are the other options?” he said.

The study suggests that hiking parking costs would be the best of the four options, projecting that the policy would reduce the volume of the daily morning commute by 136,283 vehicles. And 12,498 more people would be motivated to use transit instead, the report says.

Chernushenko said there’s no reason those people should be alarmed by a research report.

“We’re not planning to introduce any motion in this term to revisit the issue,” he said. “It was clear, rightly or wrongly depending on who you are, that council did not have the appetite at this time to look at congestion pricing.”

http://www.metronews.ca/news/ottawa/...ing-rates.html

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

It's still pretty easy to cordon off, as a previous poster demonstrated, not that I think it should be.



Meaning...?

But any cordoning is arbitrary. In the example posted earlier traffic would be pushed onto roads like Parkdale, Baseline, Island Park and the Vanier Parkway, which are often more congested than the downtown streets in the congestion zone.

After an extensive period of study, planning was well advanced for a new bridge outside of the downtown core. Premier 12% cancelled it, so all inter-provincial trips have to go through central ottawa (depending on whether one counts the west end as central). If a congestion zone were implemented, almost all of the inter-provincial traffic would be subject to a congestion charge, whether those people want to go downtown or not.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

But any cordoning is arbitrary. In the example posted earlier traffic would be pushed onto roads like Parkdale, Baseline, Island Park and the Vanier Parkway, which are often more congested than the downtown streets in the congestion zone.

Yes.

After an extensive period of study, planning was well advanced for a new bridge outside of the downtown core. Premier 12% cancelled it...

Yes, and the same result would have occurred under any other government. Ottawa politicians - hell, Ontario ones, in general - are stupidly beholden to vocal NIMBY movements.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

So what is wrong with that? Why does road building, rebuilding and maintenance (slow and underfunded) have to be paid for so overwhelmingly from property taxes? Why do people who don't even own a car have to pay almost the same share as people who commute an hour each way by car?

That doesn't include how much I pay for my plates and taxes on my insurance.

You know what, buses also use the roads.

The same argument can be made for transit; bus passes don't even cover half of OC Transpo's operating cost. Property and income taxes have to pay for all the studies, infrastructure, vehicles, so on and so forth.

Originally Posted by Aylmer

That's valid. I put those examples because they were the two which had the most comprehensive retail studies. Gothenburg, on the other hand, is much more comparable to Ottawa...

But again, they have a proper transit system with 95 km of tramway service and hundreds of km of commuter rail.

Originally Posted by acottawa

Ottawa also doesn't have a way to get around central parts of the city without going through. All interprovincial trips have to go through central ottawa (at least until Wynne gets shown the door), most long distance trips have to go through central Ottawa (say people using the Trans Canada) and most east-west trips North of Baseline/Heron/Walkley have to go through central ottawa. So to the extent to which you "nudge" people, you're nudging them to take big detours.

Very good point. Wish I would have thought of it.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That doesn't include how much I pay for my plates and taxes on my insurance.

Except that money goes to the province's general revenues, none of it is used to maintain the city's roads.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

But again, they have a proper transit system with 95 km of tramway service and hundreds of km of commuter rail.

What is the precise length of tramway network which you would deem necessary?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

What is the precise length of tramway network which you would deem necessary?

To cover a city the size of Ottawa I would think you would need several hundred.

The thing about Gothenberg (or many other European cities) is that they have extensive mass transit networks (tram, metro, commuter rail, regional rail) that get people to their own neighbourhood (or pretty close). Ottawa has a bus system, one tram/metro under construction and a rural train that has been jury rigged into an urban transit system.

OC Transpo is good for certain things (shuttling people from park and ride lots into the city centre during rush hour and connecting major institutions such as shopping malls, universities, etc) but has a lot of limitations (particularly inside the greenbelt, in farther-out suburbs and for people who work outside of downtown). I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that - Ottawa doesn't have the population density to support a Gothenberg style tram network, but a congestion charge would hit people with no good transit option.

[Aylmer]

All the more reason to have a congestion charge. People who have no alternative but to drive shouldn't be stuck behind people who could just as easily change their mode or time of travel.

And in any case, transit ridership in pre-congestion charge Gothenburg was 26%. In Ottawa, it's 21%. This is not a whole different universe. Also, factually not relevant to the mechanics of congestion pricing - it would work even (and perhaps especially) if 100% of people drove to work.

Here is a handy little introduction to what it is:

• Video Link

[J.OT13]

I understand the concept, but this is putting the cart in front of the horse. It's like a municipality that limits the number of garbage bags you can throw out on a weekly (or bi-weekly) basis without introducing a green bin program.

Build a complete public transit system first, then introduce congestion pricing. Like I said before, Montreal post RER will be the only Canadian City that will be able to justify this approach. Their are only a handful of cities in the US that would also be in a position to do so (NYC, Chicago, Boston, maybe DC).

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I understand the concept, but this is putting the cart in front of the horse. It's like a municipality that limits the number of garbage bags you can throw out on a weekly (or bi-weekly) basis without introducing a green bin program.

Build a complete public transit system first, then introduce congestion pricing. Like I said before, Montreal post RER will be the only Canadian City that will be able to justify this approach. Their are only a handful of cities in the US that would also be in a position to do so (NYC, Chicago, Boston, maybe DC).

I dunno.. once Toronto fixes its capacity crunches (by building the DRL and GO RER) I think it could easily do something like this as well. Vancouver maybe. Montreal actually probably not, at least not until a few more REM lines are built.

If the charge applies only to peak period commuters entering the downtown core (and not to people entering the downtown core at any other time) then Ottawa is ready as well. OC Transpo is already a great transit system for getting people downtown at rush hour and something like 60% of all people who work downtown already take transit. The only real problem at the moment is the lack of capacity but that's about to be fixed.

[J.OT13]

But the new system really only serves the suburbs. And only Orleans will have the privilege of direct to downtown service. What about the people of Kanata, Barrahven and Riverside South who will have to transfer a few times? What about those who live within the greenbelt? What about the people of Gatineau? Or the thousands who live in towns outside Ottawa and Gatineau?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

But the new system really only serves the suburbs. And only Orleans will have the privilege of direct to downtown service. What about the people of Kanata, Barrahven and Riverside South who will have to transfer a few times? What about those who live within the greenbelt? What about the people of Gatineau? Or the thousands who live in towns outside Ottawa and Gatineau?

Most people who live in Kanata, Barrhaven, Riverside South, and Gatineau and work downtown already take transit. Yes, there's a transfer to the LRT to get there but overall it will still be a faster trip than at present, something we've discussed at great detail. RS peak period buses (Connexion routes) will almost certainly terminate at Hurdman but the situation for off-peak buses will be different but that's an irrelevant tangent to this discussion.

Really the only thing stopping us from doing this now is the fact that the transit system is too overcapacity to take any additional riders heading into downtown at peak. Phase 1 of the LRT which fixes the Albert-Slater crush is really the only fix needed.

As for people who live in towns outside the city, well, most of the ones in the east and the north have peak period transit links into the city, and there's park and rides. In any case, I have very little sympathy for anyone who lives in Kemptville or Casselman who is hit by a congestion charge.. we shouldn't be rewarding exurban lifestyles. You want to live outside the city, then pay to get in.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

As for people who live in towns outside the city, well, most of the ones in the east and the north have peak period transit links into the city, and there's park and rides. In any case, I have very little sympathy for anyone who lives in Kemptville or Casselman who is hit by a congestion charge.. we shouldn't be rewarding exurban lifestyles. You want to live outside the city, then pay to get in.

A freeloader charge for exurban/Quebec residents would be better than drawing an arbitrary circle around downtown, IMHO. They could charge people who enter the city before 9:00 am.