Daylighting Sawmill River

[OldDartmouthMark]

Thanks all for the information presented thusfar. I am intrigued by this project and have a few questions:

(1) When I first started reading this thread I was under the impression that the intent was to unearth and restore/preserve the original Shubenacadie Canal structure, including whatever locks mechanisms etc. might still exist underground. Is this part of the scope of this project?

(2) I understand that the infrastructure needs to be replaced and now would be a good time to combine daylighting as part of the project. I'm still not clear technically how the 90%/10% diversion would be done. Is it possible to post some technical drawings that might help illustrate this clearly?

(3) I understand and agree that we need to increase the capacity for runoff, as the science of climate change seems to indicate that we will have the propensity for an increase in severe weather events in the future. However it has been mentioned that there is now more runoff due to there being more paved areas, which I don't see. I grew up in this neighborhood and to me there doesn't seem to be any increase in pavement area today compared to how it was 30 years ago. The neighborhood is old and thus contained without a whole lot of new development that is obvious to me. Where has this increase occurred?

I didn't realize that fish was a federal requirement. Very interesting.

I hope part of the requirement is the restoration/preservation of the Canal vs the creation of the appearance of a generic river running through the downtown. While I don't think the second option would be altogether bad, I do see it as a less-desirable option, given the history of the area.

[JET]

this is interesting
http://www.shubenacadiecanal.ca/how-canal-works
the turbine is still underground and had been excavated a few years back, after Starr burned down

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JET

this is interesting
http://www.shubenacadiecanal.ca/how-canal-works
the turbine is still underground and had been excavated a few years back, after Starr burned down

That's really cool! Thanks!

[JET]

the apartmnet building at the foot of Maple Street Lock4@Starr, 162 Ochterloney ST, I wonder if the Lock 4 comes form the proposed 5 locks up to Sullivans pond, which were planned but replaced by the inclined plane?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JET

the apartmnet building at the foot of Maple Street Lock4@Starr, 162 Ochterloney ST, I wonder if the Lock 4 comes form the proposed 5 locks up to Sullivans pond, which were planned but replaced by the inclined plane?

So JET, did the inclined plane go all the way from Portland St. to Sullivan's Pond?

If so, what exactly is buried under there?

[JET]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

So JET, did the inclined plane go all the way from Portland St. to Sullivan's Pond?

If so, what exactly is buried under there?

According to this: http://www.shubenacadiecanal.ca/dart...inclined-plane there is the remains of five partially constructed locks. "Although, never completed, the partial remains of these large locks remain buried underneath the sloping corridor of the former Starr Property." Not sure how much there might be left, St James Curch on Portland st has a lot of canal granite. There is also the turbine underground. The inclined plane did go from the waterfront up to Sullivan's pond.
This: http://www.halifax.ca/commcoun/hecc/...esentation.pdf
has an interesting sketch of waht it might look like. I look forward to the end of Irishtown lane being closed off.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JET

According to this: http://www.shubenacadiecanal.ca/dart...inclined-plane there is the remains of five partially constructed locks. "Although, never completed, the partial remains of these large locks remain buried underneath the sloping corridor of the former Starr Property." Not sure how much there might be left, St James Curch on Portland st has a lot of canal granite. There is also the turbine underground. The inclined plane did go from the waterfront up to Sullivan's pond.
This: http://www.halifax.ca/commcoun/hecc/...esentation.pdf
has an interesting sketch of waht it might look like. I look forward to the end of Irishtown lane being closed off.

Thanks, that does look quite nice.

[JET]

There was an excavation in 2007, and this article has a picture of waht was found, very neat. http://shubie.chebucto.org/documents/2007_09.pdf

"The purpose of the most recent investigation which took place in late July
and early August was to establish the precise locations of the two tracks of
the marine railway, uncover the upper features of the Turbine Chamber, along
with the remains of the Lock, within which it was constructed and finally, the
dig would uncover the stone-lined Tail Race which carried the water from
the stone Chamber returning it to the stream and subsequently the harbour.
Thanks to Bruce Stewart, lead Archaeologist from Cultural Resource
Management Group and his team of staff ,all of this was accomplished."

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JET

There was an excavation in 2007, and this article has a picture of waht was found, very neat. http://shubie.chebucto.org/documents/2007_09.pdf

"The purpose of the most recent investigation which took place in late July
and early August was to establish the precise locations of the two tracks of
the marine railway, uncover the upper features of the Turbine Chamber, along
with the remains of the Lock, within which it was constructed and finally, the
dig would uncover the stone-lined Tail Race which carried the water from
the stone Chamber returning it to the stream and subsequently the harbour.
Thanks to Bruce Stewart, lead Archaeologist from Cultural Resource
Management Group and his team of staff ,all of this was accomplished."

Thanks for that. Looks like there's quite a bit down there - would be quite exciting to see it daylighted eventually!

[Keith P.]

So we're going to spend $20 million (more likely double that when it's all over) to rebuild something that was never finished 150 years ago because it was a commercial failure?

What's next, a re-creation of the heavy water plant?

I am baffled why these people are fixated on this.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

So we're going to spend $20 million (more likely double that when it's all over) to rebuild something that was never finished 150 years ago because it was a commercial failure?

What's next, a re-creation of the heavy water plant?

I am baffled why these people are fixated on this.

If a project in downtown Dartmouth requires a PIM and a Public Hearing you can be sure Walter Regan will show up and ramble on about money for the salmon.
Last time he was told to stick to the relevant issues. He supports any project and thinks he can get money for the fish.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

So we're going to spend $20 million (more likely double that when it's all over) to rebuild something that was never finished 150 years ago because it was a commercial failure?

What's next, a re-creation of the heavy water plant?

I am baffled why these people are fixated on this.

Hmmm... heavy water plant, eh? Let me look into it... A rebuilt Acadia Sugar refinery would be cool too...

Seriously, why not spend a little money to preserve a significant part of our history with a bonus to beautify a part of the city that needs it? This is the time to do it, since the other infrastructure needs to be replaced - which is money that must be spent regardless lest you think it would be better to pay for flood damage instead.

C'mon Keith, admit it... you know deep down you think this is a neat project...

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

(3) I understand and agree that we need to increase the capacity for runoff, as the science of climate change seems to indicate that we will have the propensity for an increase in severe weather events in the future. However it has been mentioned that there is now more runoff due to there being more paved areas, which I don't see. I grew up in this neighborhood and to me there doesn't seem to be any increase in pavement area today compared to how it was 30 years ago. The neighborhood is old and thus contained without a whole lot of new development that is obvious to me. Where has this increase occurred?

The volume of water in a watercourse is dictated by numerous factors. One factor is impervious areas in the watershed. Impervious areas are any parcel of land on which water cannot be soaked up partially by the land. Pavement and buildings are common examples.

The immediate area around Sawmill River has been built up for a long time however the upstream area hasn't. The river drains Lake Banook, Lake MicMac, and Frenchman Lake in addition to lesser lakes and feeder brooks. All of these areas have developed extensively since the stream was piped 40 years ago.

The Little Sackville River which covers a larger area in a more suburban area has over 50% impervious land cover. The additional runoff created from the water no longer being soaked up has made flooding more common. Fortunately none of the Sackville or Little Sackville Rivers are buried in 40 year old pipes so they can drain safely without clogging.

Originally Posted by Colin May

If a project in downtown Dartmouth requires a PIM and a Public Hearing you can be sure Walter Regan will show up and ramble on about money for the salmon.
Last time he was told to stick to the relevant issues. He supports any project and thinks he can get money for the fish.

I haven't been to many public meetings that Walter has attended (he doesn't attend Peninsula PIMs) however through conversation with him I can say he is not a fan of all development. Like a lot of people (myself included) he isn't a fan of some greenfield developments in Sackville.

As for the fish, yes he is dedicated to the cause. Funding has been lower the last few years mainly due to federal government cuts so Walter might be trying harder to get some help from the lower levels of government.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

The volume of water in a watercourse is dictated by numerous factors. One factor is impervious areas in the watershed. Impervious areas are any parcel of land on which water cannot be soaked up partially by the land. Pavement and buildings are common examples.

The immediate area around Sawmill River has been built up for a long time however the upstream area hasn't. The river drains Lake Banook, Lake MicMac, and Frenchman Lake in addition to lesser lakes and feeder brooks. All of these areas have developed extensively since the stream was piped 40 years ago.

The Little Sackville River which covers a larger area in a more suburban area has over 50% impervious land cover. The additional runoff created from the water no longer being soaked up has made flooding more common. Fortunately none of the Sackville or Little Sackville Rivers are buried in 40 year old pipes so they can drain safely without clogging.

Thanks for that.

I hadn't considered all of the upstream runoff through the entire lake system, but reading your post brings it all together for me. "Of course!"

The Sackville river issue makes sense as well as I've noted there seems to be an increased propensity to flood or near-flood at the lower end in Bedford after severe rainfall (often when combined with spring melt). I hadn't remembered this occurring as regularly 20 years ago, for example.

So we have the combined effects of more runoff plus the greater chance of severe weather. Obviously something needs to be done and this is the time to do it. Money has to be spent one way or another, so we may as well spend a little more money to make the area an attractive place that people will be able to enjoy with side benefits of helping the environment and unearthing some Nova Scotia history. Makes sense to me.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

I haven't been to many public meetings that Walter has attended (he doesn't attend Peninsula PIMs) however through conversation with him I can say he is not a fan of all development. Like a lot of people (myself included) he isn't a fan of some greenfield developments in Sackville.

As for the fish, yes he is dedicated to the cause. Funding has been lower the last few years mainly due to federal government cuts so Walter might be trying harder to get some help from the lower levels of government.

I think the politicians understand where he is coming from when he talks about the Sackville river and the problems associated with poorly managed past development in that area. I just think he should stay away from endorsing developments that are not on his patch and have a degree of local opposition.
There were many people in downtown Dartmouth who tried to save the Starr property. I was in the building when Gordon Stanfield owned it and he was keen to see it preserved. As an industrial property it was a great opportunity to preserve an important part of Canadian history but business people downtown saw it as an eyesore and a probable waste of money. It would have been an important teaching tool for children - kids today know nothing about manufacturing and most parents want their kids in jobs which have a desk and no opportunity to get dirty hands.
I was there the day it burned to the ground. Another loss and HRM sorely needs to establish an advisory board to assess the places of historical significance and how to include them in economic development.
If you walk along Alderney Drive there is nothing to tell you about the shipbuilding history of Dartmouth and the association of Samuel Cunard with what is now buried under the condos of King's Wharf.

[spaustin]

Good points Colin. The Starr Manufacturing property is a really good what if. It could have been repurposed. I agree whole-heartedly on our lack of signage. Other places manage this quite well. I was in Savannah Georgia back in February and every street had a plaque explaining the history and architecture. It's not that hard and it's not that expensive. Waterfront Development seems to be the only one that's really doing this. It's too bad because heritage interpretation isn't just for tourists, it educates our own citizens too! Why isn't there a plaque in the newly renovated ferry terminal talking about the long history of the service? What about the ropeworks that we let Sobeys demolish? Anyway, we should do a better job of this. It's low-hanging fruit.

[spaustin]

Here's my take on daylighting Sawmill River at Spacing Atlantic. Lots of detail on the benefits, what options exist and how the cost could be covered. I think this is worth doing. It's kind of now or never... or at least now or 45 years from now! The pipe needs to be replaced anyway so let's see what the extra cost for various options of daylighting the river would be and judge accordingly.

http://spacing.ca/atlantic/2014/11/1...sawmill-river/

[JET]

great article, be interesting to see pictures of the old stone bridge. Mark???

[OldDartmouthMark]

It would be neat to see. I'm pretty sure I've seen pics of that bridge in the past, but can't remember where or when. If I find something I'll post it.

That is a very good article, and definitely makes the situation much more clear to me. Option #3 looks quite good IMHO.

Regarding Starr Manufacturing, when it closed and sat neglected I was disappointed and disgusted. However, I was hopeful that surely the people in the position to make decisions were acutely aware of the historical significance of the building, and would obviously take steps to preserve it. When it burned down I was saddened and angered, and perhaps a little suspicious that an act had been committed to further "development" of the property. When the Lock4@Starr condo unit was built, I was again disappointed that such an unattractive and generic looking building was allowed to be constructed on what I thought were sacred grounds to Dartmouth's history. To me this also meant that the memory of Starr Manufacturing would be forever lost for no reason other than that somebody could make a buck.

For those not familiar with Starr, one only has to go as far as google, but for those not so inclined, here are just a few interesting sources of information:

http://www.lib.uwo.ca/programs/compa.../ccc-starr.htm

http://www.hockeyshome.ns.ca/starr.htm

https://museum.novascotia.ca/collect...turing-company

http://www.pc.gc.ca/APPS/CP-NR/relea...1611&andor1=bg

Here's a link to a photo of it in the 1930s:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rdb466/7390552134/


Regarding the canal itself, here's a link to a page which contains some great imagery of the canal:

http://thevisionaryfolkphotographer....ie-canal-1826/

[Keith P.]

I have only a vague memory of the Starr buildings. I did not live in Dartmouth and did not get over there much so I only recall some mostly abandoned, very run-down looking wooden buildings that never apparently saw the benefit of paint.

After the fire the site was neglected. Even now, the Lock 4 at Starr is a terrible building that should never have been allowed to proceed, and the existing "greenway" is a sorry excuse for a park.

Sam's article is reasonably balanced although the financial analysis of developing the 7 existing properties along Ochterloney and then claiming the benefits for this idea is Dilbertesque. One has nothing to do with the other and it assumes someone with deep pockets will come along and do this.

In the picture of the river from a century ago, are those sewer outfalls I see streaming down into the river?