The TRANSIT MAPS thread (hand-drawn or computer-generated, all are welcome) - Page 3

Cirrus · #41 Posted **Dec 12, 2004, 9:04 AM**

You'd have to find a ROW and build new tracks to do commuter rail, and connecting to Union Station would be a major (read: expensive) problem. I agree that Metro out that far is not an ideal solution, but most of the cost savings traditionally associated with commuter trains don't apply in this corridor. A commuter line out that far would be nearly, if not as expensive as a Metro line... and considering the Metro line is actually in planning and well-funded past Tysons Corner, it doesn't make much sense to fight reality.

As far as Richmond: You could be right about the in-town stations. I don't know that part of the city well at all. I don't know about a station in Doswell, though. Unless I'm missing something, it's not exactly a large population center.

Cirrus · #42 Posted **Dec 12, 2004, 9:05 AM**

Oh, programs. Some of mine are in ArcView (a professional map making program) and some are in Photoshop.

giovanni sasso · #43 Posted **Dec 21, 2004, 7:44 PM**

these are really great, guys.

cirrus, i love your visionary map. i'll eventually expand on my septa fantasy map which will always always always be a fantasy
because by the time it would be built, septa will have gone under anyway.

apologies for the big-ass size of this, but i tried reducing the canvas size and just lost too much on the wording.

this originally started out as a (much smaller) map to accompany the septa daypass photo essay i did two weeks ago, but once i got going ... well, you know. i'll eventually fill in the spaces on this thing and maybe print it out at poster size.

did it in freehand and illustrator.

Cirrus · #44 Posted **Dec 21, 2004, 9:59 PM**

Coo'.

Looks like it was done in ArcView. That's a lot of detail for Illustrator.

Cirrus · #45 Posted **Dec 21, 2004, 10:12 PM**

You've reminded to post a couple more.

This is still in "draft" form, but it's a more presentable version of the map I was working on when I took that screencap back on page one:

... And this is just a quick layer export, but the information it shows is cool. My proposals for both regional and local DC service along with official proposals in Harrisburg, Richmond and Baltimore all combined to form one big super Mid-Atlantic service. Of course, it would connect to SEPTA in Elkton, but I had to stop somewhere.

J Church · #46 Posted **Dec 23, 2004, 9:16 AM**

sasso, that's amazing.

ajfroggie · #47 Posted **Dec 23, 2004, 8:12 PM**

I need to hire either J Church or Cirrus one of these days...

Cirrus · #48 Posted **Dec 23, 2004, 11:54 PM**

OK, aj. I'm in a map making mood today.

Pour vous:

ajfroggie · #49 Posted **Dec 24, 2004, 2:28 AM**

Nitpick: what you have listed as VA 168 is actually I-464.

A couple weeks ago, I hand-drew some notes on a regional rail system here in Hampton Roads, covering both sides of the water and tying major population and major job centers together. Unfortunately, such a system would cost to the tune of over $8.5 billion, assuming a $40 million/mile construction cost. That type of money simply isn't available.

Cirrus · #50 Posted **Dec 24, 2004, 4:52 PM**

$40 million / mile is pretty expensive. Neither light rail nor DMU should cost that much. They sometimes do, but that's more towards the high end of the range.

dono · #51 Posted **Dec 25, 2004, 3:37 AM**

Path to Union Station - Use the same rail bridge (or maybe a new one... to separate passenger and freight traffic) to VA and then turn to parallel the Potomac to Rosslyn. Parallel I-66 and then the Dulles Tollway out to Loudon and by the time you get to Leesburg, it's pretty much rural anyways.... from there go to Martinsburg to link up w/ MARC and all the West Virginians that have been sucked into the DC area. How would building commuter rail on new tracks be more expensive than Metro on new tracks. (And yes I do realize this will likely not happen, but something tells me quite a lot of the maps on this thread probably won't as well.)

Doswell isn't really a town now, but it's a major rail intersection. One study on improving trip times b/w Richmond and DC has trains branching off the main CSX track at Doswell to bypass Ashland on the way to DT Richmond, on the same train line that would serve trains to Charlottesville should rail service ever be reinstituted b/w Richmond and Charlottesville. As something of a transfer station, it could serve major TOD. And it's near King's Dominion.

ajfroggie · #52 Posted **Dec 26, 2004, 7:00 PM**

Quote:

$40 million / mile is pretty expensive. Neither light rail nor DMU should cost that much. They sometimes do, but that's more towards the high end of the range.

Once you include planning studies and ROW acquisition, $40 million/mile becomes easily obtainable. Another thing to consider is that any rail system here in Hampton Roads would require a lot of bridging, which in turn would drive construction costs up further.

Furthermore, I was looking at some sort of automated or semi-automated system, which while having an expensive up-front cost (tied into my $40M/mi estimate), would have the advantage of requiring less manpower to operate. This is significant since roughly 80% of transit's operating costs relates to salaries and wages.

One recent rail example: the recently completed Hiawatha LRT in the Twin Cities ran a bit over $700 million for roughly 11.5 miles, coming out to about $61 million/mile. Granted, that included a tunnel section, but there was almost no ROW acquisition involved. Even taking out the tunnel segment, the non-tunnel length was still around $50 million/mile.

I suppose I could have used an estimate in the $30-35 million/mile range, based on planning-level estimates for LRT in Norfolk and on the Peninsula, but that would have been a lowball figure, not accounting for inflation (plus my preference to overestimate costs rather than underestimate them), and would still result in my theoretical system costing over $6 billion.

Teshadoh · #53 Posted **Jan 8, 2005, 3:06 AM**

Just had to say I'm impressed with everyone's maps. I'll try to post one of Atlanta I've doodled on sometime. Cirrus - do you work for some transit activist group?

danvillain · #54 Posted **Jan 8, 2005, 4:17 AM**

cirrus is a transit activist group

Cirrus · #55 Posted **Jan 12, 2005, 12:13 AM**

Haha. No, but that would be a killer fun job.

I'm just a regular urban planner.

MSPtoMKE · #56 Posted **Apr 8, 2005, 2:29 AM**

In case you didn't see it in the Transportation Forum:

J Church · #57 Posted **Apr 10, 2005, 5:36 PM**

hey, this thread is back from the dead.

i've been sort of obsessing over extension options for the LA red line lately.

(planned)

Teshadoh · #58 Posted **Apr 21, 2005, 2:02 AM**

^ You use the same transit station symbol as I do

I love using that symbol at work for MARTA stations, I typically color them red though & the font black - but white does look better.

... sigh... I think of work too much.

danvillain · #59 Posted **Apr 23, 2005, 10:16 AM**

more in the "bay area BART blowout" thread, with links to the califorum.

Cirrus · #60 Posted **May 6, 2005, 3:34 PM**