Condo Living-The Worst Kind of Canadian Living?

[samne]

My first home that I bought was a condo townhouse. Was great, some exterior building elements along with common areas nicely maintained. Not really any facilities to maintain so fees were pretty low(under $300/mo.)

I was on the condo board, which was an experience dealing with the property managers and owners trying to scam extra repairs and renovations. Can see how this can get abused.

[casper]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Isn't that a product of all the mismanaged condo properties from the 1970s? Special assessments are killers for homeowner and property values alike.

There's quite a few Toronto residential condominiums with 5 or less units in the list I have. Property and construction costs are far too high to expect new triplexes to resolving the missing middle. The unit price will be nearly as much as the original single family home.

I use to own a strata (townhouse) in Saskatoon about 15 years ago. Purchased when under construction and was the second owner to move in. So ended up on the board.

At the time Saskatchewan required every strata to engage an engineering firm to do a study that defined the maintenance plan with an estimate of what would be required in the reserve fund. I don't remember the interval but the study would need to be periodically updated. During the first few years most repairs were warranty items with the builder. We did have to make significant increases to the strata fees to build up a reserve fund.

My impression was the study was conservative. For example a 25 year roof was expected to replaced every 25 years. In practice it may not last to long beyond that but you may get a few extra years.

I was surprised when moving back to BC. Looking at some of the strata units in Victoria. The requirement for the engineering study was a new thing being phased into BC. Some of the units I looked at had a lot of maintenance issues and a fairly small reserve fund.

I went for a 70s building but stayed away from anything that did not have a good reserve fund and lacked a track record or keeping things in good repair.

BC had the entire leaky Condo phase where the remediation to remove mold and redo the building envelope caused a lot of special assessments. There are a few building like that around that are disasters.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by samne

My first home that I bought was a condo townhouse. Was great, some exterior building elements along with common areas nicely maintained. Not really any facilities to maintain so fees were pretty low(under $300/mo.)

I was on the condo board, which was an experience dealing with the property managers and owners trying to scam extra repairs and renovations. Can see how this can get abused.

When I lived in a condo, I wasn't part of the board but I saw some things in the minutes that raised my eyebrows a bit.

We lived in relatively small (<100 unit) reinforced concrete building in Vancouver. One of the owners was a contractor, and he volunteered to do repairs to common areas and fix minor issues. I don't know what kind of deal he got but, after he left, the board had to raise our strata fee to cover a paid replacement, and they admitted that they had never budgeted for this possibility before. Or, at least that's the reason they told us for raising the fees.

Condo boards are a lesson that small democracies are often a bad way of running things.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

When I lived in a condo, I wasn't part of the board but I saw some things in the minutes that raised my eyebrows a bit.

We lived in relatively small (<100 unit) reinforced concrete building in Vancouver. One of the owners was a contractor, and he volunteered to do repairs to common areas and fix minor issues. I don't know what kind of deal he got but, after he left, the board had to raise our strata fee to cover a paid replacement, and they admitted that they had never budgeted for this possibility before. Or, at least that's the reason they told us for raising the fees.

Condo boards are a lesson that small democracies are often a bad way of running things.

The flip side of that is who would want to get stuck running a large strata when you get paid nothing and it is a thankless job?

And turning that task completely over to "professionals" would send strata fees through the roof.

[whatnext]

Case (literally) in point:

B.C. strata ordered to conduct secret probe to catch renegade smoker
Two complainants of second-hand smoke seeping into their unit had claim largely dismissed. However, their strata council has to do more to catch whoever is smoking, causing nuisance, said CRT adjudicator
Graeme Wood
about an hour ago

The strata of a large corporation has been ordered to conduct a secret investigation and testing of second-hand smoke that resulted in a small claim at the Civil Resolution Tribunal.

Tribunal adjudicator Garth Cambrey told the unnamed strata council to attend the eighth-floor unit of complainants Daryl Foster and Tanya Foster to conduct testing for a two-week period.

Cambrey further ordered the testing to be done without informing any other residents, in order to potentially catch the source of smoke.

The order stems from a complaint lodged by the Fosters against neighbour Kristine Clark, who lives on the third floor of the condominium tower. But Cambrey found the Fosters did not prove Clark was the source of smoke, from her balcony.

Clark denied violating the strata’s nuisance bylaw and told the tribunal the Fosters refused to deal with her directly, according to Cambrey’s Dec.11 ruling. Cambrey called the Fosters’ claim “circumstantial and speculative at best.”....

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/h...smoker-7956511

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Case (literally) in point:

B.C. strata ordered to conduct secret probe to catch renegade smoker
Two complainants of second-hand smoke seeping into their unit had claim largely dismissed. However, their strata council has to do more to catch whoever is smoking, causing nuisance, said CRT adjudicator
Graeme Wood
about an hour ago

The strata of a large corporation has been ordered to conduct a secret investigation and testing of second-hand smoke that resulted in a small claim at the Civil Resolution Tribunal.

Tribunal adjudicator Garth Cambrey told the unnamed strata council to attend the eighth-floor unit of complainants Daryl Foster and Tanya Foster to conduct testing for a two-week period.

Cambrey further ordered the testing to be done without informing any other residents, in order to potentially catch the source of smoke.

The order stems from a complaint lodged by the Fosters against neighbour Kristine Clark, who lives on the third floor of the condominium tower. But Cambrey found the Fosters did not prove Clark was the source of smoke, from her balcony.

Clark denied violating the strata’s nuisance bylaw and told the tribunal the Fosters refused to deal with her directly, according to Cambrey’s Dec.11 ruling. Cambrey called the Fosters’ claim “circumstantial and speculative at best.”....

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/h...smoker-7956511

Cigarette smoke from five storeys down?

Living in a condo can mean neighbours who break rules or are simply nuts.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Living in a condo can mean neighbours who break rules or are simply nuts.

You don't say... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...suit-1.7025394

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

You don't say... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...suit-1.7025394

That female lawyer (Arbabi) sounds like a real piece of work.

....An affidavit of service filed by McLelland says when a process server knocked on Arbabi's door to serve her with McLelland's response to the claim, the woman who answered said she was not Naomi Arbabi.

The process server writes in the affidavit that she found Arbabi's photo online, and confirmed it was the person she'd just met, so she emailed Arbabi to ask for an explanation.

Arbabi responded: "When you ask i if i am Naomi Arbabi the answer is always no as Naomi Arbabi is an incorporated name and does not refer to a living breathing woman."

According to the affidavit, Arbabi expanded on her theory in another email later the same day, explaining that Naomi Arbabi was a "dead entity corporation" created by her birth certificate.

"I, a woman, am not Naomi Arbabi, but Naomi Arbabi is the name i am called. There is a subtle but crucial difference between the two. Unfortunately, this is not common knowledge yet," she wrote...

[someone123]

My neighbours from hell upped their game and seem to have added a second barkier dog now (they also scream at each other sometimes and slam things at all hours). When I made a noise complaint the lady said she was the true victim as I was causing her stress by complaining.

Almost everybody is reasonable and most neighbours cause 0 issues but depending on the setup you can have a lot of adjacent units and it only takes one to cause headaches. Townhouses are a lot better for this. We had another flophouse from hell a few years ago with too many tenants who were smoking pot and playing music for about 18 hours a day while their apartment became overrun with mice. I am surprised we haven't seen more of that.

[casper]

Originally Posted by whatnext

"I, a woman, am not Naomi Arbabi, but Naomi Arbabi is the name i am called. There is a subtle but crucial difference between the two. Unfortunately, this is not common knowledge yet," she wrote...[/I]

You are brining back memory of Philosophy of Language class many years ago in university.

I still remember the class well. There were perhaps 15 of us in the class. There was a priest. There was a fellow that went on to be a call-in radio show host. Several who were destined to go on to law school. A few of us from a computer science background that had an interest in natural language processing. I for one was happy to never study that subject again.

[whatnext]

So many condo-living friends have water leak horror stories. Here's a very Vancouver one:

B.C. strata owner to pay for leaky wine cooler water damage
Owner agreed leak came from cooler but objected to strata going ahead with work to fix issue.
Jeremy Hainsworth

A Vancouver homeowner whose unit had a leak in a wine cooler won’t be getting any cash back from her strata, B.C.’s Civil Resolution Tribunal has ruled.

Fei Ying Zhang took her strata to the tribunal after it charged her $2,575 for an invoice from a contractor hired to look into the leak.

Recommended reads for you:
B.C. mom collecting $17K in benefits seeks support from 'ultra-high net worth' ex-husband
Drought conditions force BC Hydro to rely on power purchases
In June 2022, water leaked in Zhang’s strata lot, tribunal member Micah Carmody said in a Dec. 18 decision.

Carmody said the contractors determined the leak came from a wine cooler.

Zhang said she should not have to pay the chargeback for various reasons; primarily, she said, because the contractors did unnecessary work because they failed to realize the leak came from the cooler....

....Zhang was not living in the unit June 4, 2022, when her property manager, Coloumb Wang, discovered water pooling on the living room floor.

Wang mopped the water up, but a small amount of water continued to seep out from the kitchen island toward the living room.

Wang informed Zhang about the leak and called the strata emergency line. The strata manager called a contractor which sent a plumber the same day....

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/h...damage-8005742

[lio45]

That’s one of the downsides of condos: you’re not alone in charge. The argument that the board can and should step in and fix YOUR leak ASAP and send you the bill, is a valid one. Conversely, in a privately owned building, you can actually decide to control the leak or even endure some water damage, until it can be fixed for free, rather than immediately summoning an expensive plumbing company.

[yaletown_fella]

The condo fees for units in Village by the Grange , which was topped out in 1978 seem quite reasonable compared to most buildings in Toronto. They also include everything except for hydro & internet (I can't recall if some kind of a cable package is still included)

I'm considering purchasing a unit in this building as a hedge against potential rising rents in Toronto proper.

What are peoples experiences with Del properties management ?

My main concern is the possibility of special assessments and roaches. (I checked under the sink of the unit, and in the hinges of cabinets during the open house and couldnt see any signs of bug activity)

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

The condo fees for units in Village by the Grange , which was topped out in 1978 seem quite reasonable compared to most buildings in Toronto. They also include everything except for hydro & internet (I can't recall if some kind of a cable package is still included)

I'm considering purchasing a unit in this building as a hedge against potential rising rents in Toronto proper.

What are peoples experiences with Del properties management ?

My main concern is the possibility of special assessments and roaches. (I checked under the sink of the unit, and in the hinges of cabinets during the open house and couldnt see any signs of bug activity)

Interesting, roaches are a big concern in Toronto? I hadn’t heard of that in Vancouver, silverfish maybe.

[GeneralLeeTPHLS]

Yeah, roaches and bed bugs are big concerns for apartment or condo living in Toronto.

Even mice to a lesser degree.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by casper

You are brining back memory of Philosophy of Language class many years ago in university.

I still remember the class well. There were perhaps 15 of us in the class. There was a priest. There was a fellow that went on to be a call-in radio show host. Several who were destined to go on to law school. A few of us from a computer science background that had an interest in natural language processing. I for one was happy to never study that subject again.

Looks like the lawyer Arbabi was even too much for lawyers to tolerate:

Vancouver lawyer suspended after accusations of pseudolegal 'paper terrorism' over neighbour's deck
Naomi Arbabi's suspension 'necessary to protect the public,' Law Society of B.C. says
Rhianna Schmunk · CBC News · Posted: Jan 02, 2024

A Vancouver lawyer accused of filing a groundless pseudolegal lawsuit against her neighbour over a glass deck divider has been banned from practising law in British Columbia while the province's law society investigates a complaint.

Naomi Arbabi was temporarily suspended on Dec. 28 after the board of the Law Society of B.C. "determined that extraordinary action was necessary to protect the public," according to an email sent to CBC News on Tuesday.

"The suspension will last until the order is rescinded or varied," the email read.

The temporary ban is the latest development in a legal back-and-forth between Arbabi and her neighbour, Colleen McLelland, which began with accusations of trespassing on roof space and developed into what McLelland describes as a fight based on debunked, pseudolegal arguments....

...For her part, Arbabi claimed that Canadian judges who have ruled on OPCA litigants don't really grasp the concepts of "natural law" and "trespass" that she bases her lawsuit on.

"Many courts, including the claimant, have trouble understanding what is often referred to as natural law. ... Natural law — or as i call it, just law — is that which is so obvious that it is not required to be written down into an act or statute," Arbabi said....

...In November, Arbabi agreed to meet with a CBC reporter to discuss her lawsuit, but upon arrival, declined to answer any questions. Instead, she read out a notice warning of consequences if a story were to be published without her consent.

"As such harm is a very grievous trespass, i, shall claim remedy in the amount of $500,000 for such trespass plus $5,000 a day for as long as the trespass continues," the notice read.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...suit-1.7072762

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by casper

I use to own a strata (townhouse) in Saskatoon about 15 years ago. Purchased when under construction and was the second owner to move in. So ended up on the board.

At the time Saskatchewan required every strata to engage an engineering firm to do a study that defined the maintenance plan with an estimate of what would be required in the reserve fund. I don't remember the interval but the study would need to be periodically updated. During the first few years most repairs were warranty items with the builder. We did have to make significant increases to the strata fees to build up a reserve fund.

My impression was the study was conservative. For example a 25 year roof was expected to replaced every 25 years. In practice it may not last to long beyond that but you may get a few extra years.

I was surprised when moving back to BC. Looking at some of the strata units in Victoria. The requirement for the engineering study was a new thing being phased into BC. Some of the units I looked at had a lot of maintenance issues and a fairly small reserve fund.

I went for a 70s building but stayed away from anything that did not have a good reserve fund and lacked a track record or keeping things in good repair.

BC had the entire leaky Condo phase where the remediation to remove mold and redo the building envelope caused a lot of special assessments. There are a few building like that around that are disasters.

The Engineering study requirement is peak Canada. We spend $5k every few years to find out if we need to save $200k or $250k a year well now $205k or $255k. In the end it's still just a prediction and thousands are spent on studies that add no value.

[whatnext]

Sounds like this book should be required reading for Canadians as more and more are forced into condo living:

New book gives harsh lessons on the realities of condo ownership
SHANE DINGMAN REAL ESTATE REPORTER
TORONTO
PUBLISHED YESTERDAY

There’s a popular bit of folk wisdom that when you’re approaching something new you should hope for the best, prepare for the worst. When it comes to buying a condominium, a new book may give you a whole new list of things you didn’t even know to be prepared for.

For instance, did you know that some super-tall high-rise buildings are subject to such high wind pressures that they can force rainwater through even tiny flaws in the waterproofing of exterior walls? According to Sally Thompson, author of Condo Questions and Answers: What you can do about the 40+ most common – and unexpected – condo problems, searching for a leak in even one apartment in such conditions can be a maddeningly expensive prospect. Workers may have to put huge fans outside apartment doors to create negative pressure inside and then people dangling from platforms hanging off the side the building have to spray water all along the surface to hunt out the source of the leak. It happens in modern buildings, according to Ms. Thompson....

....The book makes you ask questions like “How much do I know about my parking garage?” According to Ms. Thompson, 9 to 15 per cent of all unexpected costs a condominium will face throughout its life will come from the parking garage. And it doesn’t matter the age: Older pre-1985 buildings didn’t have enough waterproofing and that leads to structural decay, but newer buildings with better membranes can also require expensive repairs periodically....

....Ms. Thompson is a civil engineer and managing principal at Synergy Partners, who has since 1990 prepared studies and managed construction projects to repair the common and uncommon maladies associated with aging buildings of all types. Since the mid-2000s she’s also served on committees with condo governance organizations such as the Canadian Condominium Institute...

... “A condominium building is intended to be renewed almost in perpetuity, almost as if in suspended animation, neither improving significantly nor degrading significantly,” says Ms. Thompson.

The book’s central teaching is of the true costs of maintaining that status quo. Ms. Thompson warns that for most condominium unit owners, their maintenance fees and reserve fund contributions have to rise every year – and faster than you’d expect.

“Fee increases at a rate above inflation are the nature of the beast, especially for the first 20 years of the life of the condo,” she says in the book. “Historically, the cost of construction projects has inflated, on average, at a rate of about 1 per cent per year more than consumer goods. This excess inflation on the construction side likely relates to the fact that construction is labour intensive and can’t be offshored the way consumer-goods manufacturing can be.”....

... The type of building can lead to dramatically different cost estimates: “Where a 30-storey building with 200 units might need to plan to spend $5- to $10-million to replace its windows, a 200-unit supertall [50 storeys or more] building might need to plan to spend more than $20-million.”...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real...ndo-ownership/

[Bcasey25raptor]

This is an urbanist forum based around skyscrapers
How the hell are there so many here crapping all over condo living as inferior? Doesn't this run counter to the very goals and purpose of this very forum?

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

This is an urbanist forum based around skyscrapers
How the hell are there so many here crapping all over condo living as inferior? Doesn't this run counter to the very goals and purpose of this very forum?

Because a lot of the people here in fact live in single-family detached houses and just want some sort of superiority over people who *gasp* share walls with other people. It’s even more bizarre when in almost all circumstances, one will pay a lot more in repairing and maintaining a detached house than if they were to just pay condo fees and generally not even worry about it.

Fact of the matter is condos provide an immense amount of amenities that single-family housing can’t which includes (in general) access to transit, improved walkability, and more critical services nearby. That’s not even factoring that newer condos generally have their own gym, pool, lounge, and a rooftop terrace with incredible views. Also, I hate mowing the grass or having to clean rooms I use once in a blue moon. As someone who’s lived in even modest 2000 sq ft houses in a family of 4 it still felt like too much space. The efficiency of space provided by condos is enough for me.