European economy - Économie européenne - Europäische Wirtschaft

[New Brisavoine]

+ the Greek metro areas and Istanbul. Be prepared for a surprise regarding Athens (the 2011 census showed the population of Attica was lower than previously thought).

This year Eurostat has provided GDP figures for the Turkish regions, so we can for the first time calculate the GDP per capita of Istanbul. The population of Istanbul is derived from the address based population registration system which accurately pinpoints the population of Turkey at their real place of residence (this boosted the population of Istanbul, because people previously reported as living in Anatolian villages are now accurately reported as living where they really live, i.e. Istanbul).

GDP per capita in 2011 (in US dollars, at market exchange rates, not at purchasing power parity):
- Canton of Geneva: $118,721 (figure inflated by commuters coming from neighboring areas in France and Switzerland)
- Canton of Zurich: $104,733
- cantons of Basel-Stadt & Basel-Land + German district of Lörrach: $93,436 (figure inflated by commuters coming from neighboring areas in Switzerland and France)
- Oslo metro area: between $84,000 and $94,000 (depending on the definition of the metro area)
SWITZERLAND (entire country): $83,679 ($51,352 at PPP)
- Stockholm County: $78,301
- Munich metro area: $71,460
- Paris Region: $71,307
- Copenhagen metro area: $70,128
- Helsinki-Uusimaa Region: $64,385
- Brussels-Capital + Flemish & Walloon Brabant: $64,322
- Dublin metro area: $62,406
- Rhine-Main metro area (Frankfurt-Wiesbaden-Mainz): $60,332
- Vienna metro area: $58,836
- Antwerp arrondissement: $58,318
- Stuttgart metro area: $57,832
- Hamburg metro area: $57,036
- Greater London + 6 home counties: $54,802
- Randstad (Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam, Utrecht): $52,537
- Milan metro area: $52,105
- Lyon metro area: $50,738
THE NETHERLANDS (entire country): $49,968
AUSTRIA (entire country): $49,566
ÉIRE (entire country): $49,344
- Rhine-Ruhr metro area (Essen-Düsseldorf-Cologne): $47,914
- Edinburgh metro area: $47,913
- Nice-Monaco (Alpes-Maritimes + Principality of Monaco): $47,763 (figure heavily weighed down by the numerous retirees living in the area)
- Toulouse metro area: $46,729
BELGIUM (entire country): $46,539
GERMANY (entire country): $45,293
- Rome metro area: $45,210
- Bristol metro area: $44,793
- Marseille metro area: $44,582
- Bordeaux metro area: $43,251
- Florence metro area: $42,922
FRANCE (entire country): $42,812
- Turin province: $42,192
- Madrid province: $40,940
- Berlin metro area: $39,046
- Bilbao province: $39,039
UK (entire country): $38,964
- Liège arrondissement: $37,892
ITALY (entire country): $37,025
- Barcelona province: $35,861
- Glasgow metro area: $35,278
- Athens region (Attica): $35,263
- West Yorkshire metro area (Leeds-Bradford): $34,463
- Manchester metro area: $34,255
- Newcastle metro area: $33,287
- Birmingham metro area: ca. $32,000
- Lisbon metro area: $31,333
SPAIN (entire country): $31,173
- Liverpool metro area: $29,783
- Valencia province: $28,827
- South Yorkshire metro area (Sheffield-Doncaster): $27,593
GREECE (entire country): $26,104
- Palermo province: $25,549
- Thessaloniki regional unit: $22,612
PORTUGAL (entire country): $22,570
- Naples metro area: $22,150
- Porto metro area: $19,634
- Istanbul province: $15,618
TURKEY (entire country): $10,413

[New Brisavoine]

+ the Polish metro areas.

GDP per capita in 2011 (in US dollars, at market exchange rates, not at purchasing power parity):
- Canton of Geneva: $118,721 (figure inflated by commuters coming from neighboring areas in France and Switzerland)
- Canton of Zurich: $104,733
- cantons of Basel-Stadt & Basel-Land + German district of Lörrach: $93,436 (figure inflated by commuters coming from neighboring areas in Switzerland and France)
- Oslo metro area: between $84,000 and $94,000 (depending on the definition of the metro area)
SWITZERLAND (entire country): $83,679 ($51,352 at PPP)
- Stockholm County: $78,301
- Munich metro area: $71,460
- Paris Region: $71,307
- Copenhagen metro area: $70,128
- Helsinki-Uusimaa Region: $64,385
- Brussels-Capital + Flemish & Walloon Brabant: $64,322
- Dublin metro area: $62,406
- Rhine-Main metro area (Frankfurt-Wiesbaden-Mainz): $60,332
- Vienna metro area: $58,836
- Antwerp arrondissement: $58,318
- Stuttgart metro area: $57,832
- Hamburg metro area: $57,036
- Greater London + 6 home counties: $54,802
- Randstad (Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam, Utrecht): $52,537
- Milan metro area: $52,105
- Lyon metro area: $50,738
THE NETHERLANDS (entire country): $49,968
AUSTRIA (entire country): $49,566
ÉIRE (entire country): $49,344
- Rhine-Ruhr metro area (Essen-Düsseldorf-Cologne): $47,914
- Edinburgh metro area: $47,913
- Nice-Monaco (Alpes-Maritimes + Principality of Monaco): $47,763 (figure heavily weighed down by the numerous retirees living in the area)
- Toulouse metro area: $46,729
BELGIUM (entire country): $46,539
GERMANY (entire country): $45,293
- Rome metro area: $45,210
- Bristol metro area: $44,793
- Marseille metro area: $44,582
- Bordeaux metro area: $43,251
- Florence metro area: $42,922
FRANCE (entire country): $42,812
- Turin province: $42,192
- Madrid province: $40,940
- Berlin metro area: $39,046
- Bilbao province: $39,039
UK (entire country): $38,964
- Liège arrondissement: $37,892
ITALY (entire country): $37,025
- Barcelona province: $35,861
- Glasgow metro area: $35,278
- Athens region (Attica): $35,263
- West Yorkshire metro area (Leeds-Bradford): $34,463
- Manchester metro area: $34,255
- Newcastle metro area: $33,287
- Birmingham metro area: ca. $32,000
- Lisbon metro area: $31,333
SPAIN (entire country): $31,173
- Liverpool metro area: $29,783
- Valencia province: $28,827
- Warsaw metro area: $27,914
- South Yorkshire metro area (Sheffield-Doncaster): $27,593
GREECE (entire country): $26,104
- Palermo province: $25,549
- Thessaloniki regional unit: $22,612
PORTUGAL (entire country): $22,570
- Naples metro area: $22,150
- Poznan metro area: $20,446
- Porto metro area: $19,634
- Wroclaw metro area: $16,638
- Katowice-Bytom-Gliwice metro area: $15,653
- Istanbul province: $15,618
- Tricity (Gdansk) metro area: $14,976
- Krakow metro area: $14,942
POLAND (entire country): $13,400
TURKEY (entire country): $10,413

[Crawford]

Wow, how can Bordeaux be poorer than Marseille?

I've never been to Marseille, but thought it had some significant economic issues. I have been to Bordeaux and it seemed very rich, in fact it felt richer than anywhere in France outside of Paris. The city center is very posh and upscale, and the suburbs are quite nice. Marseille looks relatively poor on Google streetview, but obviously that can be misleading.

And Athens richer than Manchester and Birmingham? I'm not saying it isn't true, but you sure wouldn't know it if you visited these places.

[mousquet]

^ Downtown Bordeaux's been undergoing some significant refurbishment for a decade or so. That's how a lot of it looks well-off today, but I heard hundreds of times it looked neglected before. I think Marseille is in that kind of trouble, some neglect due to a lack of will from local politicians. There's nonetheless some money out there. Overall, France's Mediterranean coast is everything but poor and I wouldn't worry about them.

In fact, most concerns go to the northern regions (especially Nord-Pas-de-Calais and Lorraine) that have lost their manufacturing jobs over the past decades. That being said, I recently read Lille was not doing so bad now. I don't like their mayor. She's a pain nationwide, but she's also often mentioned for having done a pretty good job for her city. So, I guess I have to give her credit for that.

[New Brisavoine]

The idea that Marseille is poor is a myth, based on a few observations of immigrant neighborhoods near the city center. The suburbs of Marseille are rich, as well as its southern quarters, and the port of Marseille brings in lots of revenues.

The southern quarters of the city, where the Marseille bourgeoisie live:



They live in villas like these:











In the suburbs there are many middle-class areas like these:





Some sections of the busy port (I believe it's the busiest oil port in Europe after Rotterdam; non-oil freight is less developed, due to the rigid unions there):











And of course the city center, for all its grit, remains a very interesting place, much more clean than Naples, and more or less on par with Barcelona in terms of grit and cleanliness.

[New Brisavoine]

For an idea of economic size:

GDP in 2011:
- province of Barcelona: 198 billion US dollars
- province of Rome: 194
- Bouches-du-Rhône (the department of Marseille): 88.2
- provinces of Naples + Caserta: 87.7
- province of Valencia: 74
- Alpes-Maritimes (department of Nice and Cannes) + Principality of Monaco: 53
- province of Genoa: 34
- province of Palermo: 32

[mousquet]

^ Yeah. It's no part of what foreigners call the Riviera, but there's surely some money all along the coast and in Marseille in particular.

I'm just annoyed by the time it takes to actually build the couple of highrises planned on the docks... Talking about these. How does it take so long when it's right on that wealthy coast? That surely doesn't help to change that sorry reputation of the city that has it too slow and gritty.

[Crawford]

Wow, Marseille looks beautiful. I've always been fascinated by that city, as it seems like a rougher, mysterious, undiscovered Barcelona, though obviously with a strong Maghreb accent. I think I liked the town ever since I saw that 1970's movie The French Connection. And I love bouillabaisse.

Bordeaux still surprises me, though. It really does feel affluent, at least in the parts I visited, but I understand that visitors often get an incorrect impression.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Crawford

a rougher, mysterious, undiscovered Barcelona, though obviously with a strong Maghreb accent.

The Maghreb accent is mostly an inner city thing. The suburbs are much more "white".

At the 2011 census, 6.7% of the population in the city of Marseille proper were Maghreban immigrants (this does not include the children and grand-children of Maghreban immigrants born on French soil), whereas in the overall metro area, the Maghreban immigrants made up only 4.9% of the population. This means in the suburbs and commuter belt the Maghreban immigrants make up only 3.0% of the population.

Maghreban immigrants at the 2011 census:
- Marseille city proper: 6.7% of the total population
- suburbs and commuter belt: 3.0%
MARSEILLE METRO AREA: 4.9%

For comparison, this is the situation in Paris:
- Paris city proper: 5.0%
- suburbs and commuter belt: 5.1%
PARIS METRO AREA: 5.1%

[mousquet]

Bah, there's no problem about any Maghreb accent or whatever anyway. Obviously, our kids will have some much better accents than ours, and then their own kids will do the same, and so on and on.

And the world would better get ready for the holy French language, eh, cause it's actually the conqueror. What? Isn't it?
Easy, easy, y'all so freaking touchy ... There's no trolling here, just some teasing.

[New Brisavoine]

I think he meant Maghreban accent as in "a Maghreban touch".

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I think he meant Maghreban accent as in "a Maghreban touch".

Yeah, I meant it as "touch of Maghreb", not that Marseille has an accent influenced by Maghreb French. I don't speak French beyond simple phrases and can't tell the accent differences in Metropolitan France anyways.

I always thought that Marseille had lots of people descended from Maghreb, not necessarily immigrants but second-third generation Algerians, Moroccans and the like, and "native" French relocated back to Metropolitan France following independence.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I always thought that Marseille had lots of people descended from Maghreb, not necessarily immigrants but second-third generation Algerians, Moroccans and the like, and "native" French relocated back to Metropolitan France following independence.

Marseille is a Mediterranean emporium. It has people from all over the Mediterranean: Italians (LOTS of Italians and people of Italian descent), Corsicans, Greeks, Armenians, Levantines, Jews, Maghrebans, Pieds-Noirs (Europeans from North Africa), and even Spaniards (although less so than Italians). The native Provençal population has left its accent (language accent) on the whole population, but the majority of the population is now of foreign descent (mostly European, particularly Italian).

[New Brisavoine]

+ the Austro-Hungarian metro areas.

As you can see, the ranking of each country doesn't really reflect the ranking of their capital cities. Some countries concentrate the wealth in their capital (Slovakia), other countries much less so, with a more homogeneous spread of wealth across the country (Slovenia).

GDP per capita in 2011 (in US dollars, at market exchange rates, not at purchasing power parity):
- Canton of Geneva: $118,721 (figure inflated by commuters coming from neighboring areas in France and Switzerland)
- Canton of Zurich: $104,733
- cantons of Basel-Stadt & Basel-Land + German district of Lörrach: $93,436 (figure inflated by commuters coming from neighboring areas in Switzerland and France)
- Oslo metro area: between $84,000 and $94,000 (depending on the definition of the metro area)
SWITZERLAND (entire country): $83,679 ($51,352 at PPP)
- Stockholm County: $78,301
- Munich metro area: $71,460
- Paris Region: $71,307
- Copenhagen metro area: $70,128
- Helsinki-Uusimaa Region: $64,385
- Brussels-Capital + Flemish & Walloon Brabant: $64,322
- Dublin metro area: $62,406
- Rhine-Main metro area (Frankfurt-Wiesbaden-Mainz): $60,332
- Vienna metro area: $58,836
- Antwerp arrondissement: $58,318
- Stuttgart metro area: $57,832
- Hamburg metro area: $57,036
- Greater London + 6 home counties: $54,802
- Randstad (Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam, Utrecht): $52,537
- Milan metro area: $52,105
- Lyon metro area: $50,738
THE NETHERLANDS (entire country): $49,968
AUSTRIA (entire country): $49,566
ÉIRE (entire country): $49,344
- Rhine-Ruhr metro area (Essen-Düsseldorf-Cologne): $47,914
- Edinburgh metro area: $47,913
- Nice-Monaco (Alpes-Maritimes + Principality of Monaco): $47,763 (figure heavily weighed down by the numerous retirees living in the area)
- Toulouse metro area: $46,729
BELGIUM (entire country): $46,539
GERMANY (entire country): $45,293
- Rome metro area: $45,210
- Bristol metro area: $44,793
- Marseille metro area: $44,582
- Bordeaux metro area: $43,251
- Florence metro area: $42,922
FRANCE (entire country): $42,812
- Turin province: $42,192
- Madrid province: $40,940
- Berlin metro area: $39,046
- Bilbao province: $39,039
UK (entire country): $38,964
- Liège arrondissement: $37,892
ITALY (entire country): $37,025
- Barcelona province: $35,861
- Glasgow metro area: $35,278
- Athens region (Attica): $35,263
- West Yorkshire metro area (Leeds-Bradford): $34,463
- Manchester metro area: $34,255
- Newcastle metro area: $33,287
- Bratislava metro area: $32,404
- Birmingham metro area: ca. $32,000
- Lisbon metro area: $31,333
SPAIN (entire country): $31,173
- Prague metro area: $30,810
- Ljubljana metro area: $30,480
- Liverpool metro area: $29,783
- Valencia province: $28,827
- Warsaw metro area: $27,914
- South Yorkshire metro area (Sheffield-Doncaster): $27,593
GREECE (entire country): $26,104
- Palermo province: $25,549
SLOVENIA (entire country): $24,520
- Budapest metro area: $22,867
- Thessaloniki regional unit: $22,612
PORTUGAL (entire country): $22,570
- Naples metro area: $22,150
- Zagreb metro area: $21,537
CZECH REPUBLIC (entire country): $20,627
- Poznan metro area: $20,446
- Porto metro area: $19,634
SLOVAKIA (entire country): $17,790
- Wroclaw metro area: $16,638
- Katowice-Bytom-Gliwice metro area: $15,653
- Istanbul province: $15,618
- Tricity (Gdansk) metro area: $14,976
- Krakow metro area: $14,942
CROATIA (entire country): $14,453
HUNGARY (entire country): $13,868
POLAND (entire country): $13,400
TURKEY (entire country): $10,413

[New Brisavoine]

+ the Baltic metro areas.

GDP per capita in 2011 (in US dollars, at market exchange rates, not at purchasing power parity):
- Canton of Geneva: $118,721 (figure inflated by commuters coming from neighboring areas in France and Switzerland)
- Canton of Zurich: $104,733
- cantons of Basel-Stadt & Basel-Land + German district of Lörrach: $93,436 (figure inflated by commuters coming from neighboring areas in Switzerland and France)
- Oslo metro area: between $84,000 and $94,000 (depending on the definition of the metro area)
SWITZERLAND (entire country): $83,679 ($51,352 at PPP)
- Stockholm County: $78,301
- Munich metro area: $71,460
- Paris Region: $71,307
- Copenhagen metro area: $70,128
- Helsinki-Uusimaa Region: $64,385
- Brussels-Capital + Flemish & Walloon Brabant: $64,322
- Dublin metro area: $62,406
- Rhine-Main metro area (Frankfurt-Wiesbaden-Mainz): $60,332
- Vienna metro area: $58,836
- Antwerp arrondissement: $58,318
- Stuttgart metro area: $57,832
- Hamburg metro area: $57,036
- Greater London + 6 home counties: $54,802
- Randstad (Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam, Utrecht): $52,537
- Milan metro area: $52,105
- Lyon metro area: $50,738
THE NETHERLANDS (entire country): $49,968
AUSTRIA (entire country): $49,566
ÉIRE (entire country): $49,344
- Rhine-Ruhr metro area (Essen-Düsseldorf-Cologne): $47,914
- Edinburgh metro area: $47,913
- Nice-Monaco (Alpes-Maritimes + Principality of Monaco): $47,763 (figure heavily weighed down by the numerous retirees living in the area)
- Toulouse metro area: $46,729
BELGIUM (entire country): $46,539
GERMANY (entire country): $45,293
- Rome metro area: $45,210
- Bristol metro area: $44,793
- Marseille metro area: $44,582
- Bordeaux metro area: $43,251
- Florence metro area: $42,922
FRANCE (entire country): $42,812
- Turin province: $42,192
- Madrid province: $40,940
- Berlin metro area: $39,046
- Bilbao province: $39,039
UK (entire country): $38,964
- Liège arrondissement: $37,892
ITALY (entire country): $37,025
- Barcelona province: $35,861
- Glasgow metro area: $35,278
- Athens region (Attica): $35,263
- West Yorkshire metro area (Leeds-Bradford): $34,463
- Manchester metro area: $34,255
- Newcastle metro area: $33,287
- Bratislava metro area: $32,404
- Birmingham metro area: ca. $32,000
- Lisbon metro area: $31,333
SPAIN (entire country): $31,173
- Prague metro area: $30,810
- Ljubljana metro area: $30,480
- Liverpool metro area: $29,783
- Valencia province: $28,827
- Warsaw metro area: $27,914
- South Yorkshire metro area (Sheffield-Doncaster): $27,593
GREECE (entire country): $26,104
- Palermo province: $25,549
SLOVENIA (entire country): $24,520
- Tallinn-Harju County: $24,119
- Budapest metro area: $22,867
- Thessaloniki regional unit: $22,612
PORTUGAL (entire country): $22,570
- Naples metro area: $22,150
- Zagreb metro area: $21,537
CZECH REPUBLIC (entire country): $20,627
- Poznan metro area: $20,446
- Vilnius County: $20,237
- Porto metro area: $19,634
- Riga metro area: $17,815
SLOVAKIA (entire country): $17,790
ESTONIA (entire country): $17,038
- Wroclaw metro area: $16,638
- Katowice-Bytom-Gliwice metro area: $15,653
- Istanbul province: $15,618
- Tricity (Gdansk) metro area: $14,976
- Krakow metro area: $14,942
CROATIA (entire country): $14,453
LITHUANIA (entire country): $14,235
- Kaunas County: $13,988
HUNGARY (entire country): $13,868
LATVIA (entire country): $13,663
POLAND (entire country): $13,400
TURKEY (entire country): $10,413

[big W]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

+ the Baltic metro areas.

GDP per capita in 2011 (in US dollars, at market exchange rates, not at purchasing power parity):
- Canton of Geneva: $118,721 (figure inflated by commuters coming from neighboring areas in France and Switzerland)
- Canton of Zurich: $104,733
- cantons of Basel-Stadt & Basel-Land + German district of Lörrach: $93,436 (figure inflated by commuters coming from neighboring areas in Switzerland and France)
- Oslo metro area: between $84,000 and $94,000 (depending on the definition of the metro area)
SWITZERLAND (entire country): $83,679 ($51,352 at PPP)
- Stockholm County: $78,301
- Munich metro area: $71,460
- Paris Region: $71,307
- Copenhagen metro area: $70,128
- Helsinki-Uusimaa Region: $64,385
- Brussels-Capital + Flemish & Walloon Brabant: $64,322
- Dublin metro area: $62,406
- Rhine-Main metro area (Frankfurt-Wiesbaden-Mainz): $60,332
- Vienna metro area: $58,836
- Antwerp arrondissement: $58,318
- Stuttgart metro area: $57,832
- Hamburg metro area: $57,036
- Greater London + 6 home counties: $54,802
- Randstad (Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam, Utrecht): $52,537
- Milan metro area: $52,105
- Lyon metro area: $50,738
THE NETHERLANDS (entire country): $49,968
AUSTRIA (entire country): $49,566
ÉIRE (entire country): $49,344
- Rhine-Ruhr metro area (Essen-Düsseldorf-Cologne): $47,914
- Edinburgh metro area: $47,913
- Nice-Monaco (Alpes-Maritimes + Principality of Monaco): $47,763 (figure heavily weighed down by the numerous retirees living in the area)
- Toulouse metro area: $46,729
BELGIUM (entire country): $46,539
GERMANY (entire country): $45,293
- Rome metro area: $45,210
- Bristol metro area: $44,793
- Marseille metro area: $44,582
- Bordeaux metro area: $43,251
- Florence metro area: $42,922
FRANCE (entire country): $42,812
- Turin province: $42,192
- Madrid province: $40,940
- Berlin metro area: $39,046
- Bilbao province: $39,039
UK (entire country): $38,964
- Liège arrondissement: $37,892
ITALY (entire country): $37,025
- Barcelona province: $35,861
- Glasgow metro area: $35,278
- Athens region (Attica): $35,263
- West Yorkshire metro area (Leeds-Bradford): $34,463
- Manchester metro area: $34,255
- Newcastle metro area: $33,287
- Bratislava metro area: $32,404
- Birmingham metro area: ca. $32,000
- Lisbon metro area: $31,333
SPAIN (entire country): $31,173
- Prague metro area: $30,810
- Ljubljana metro area: $30,480
- Liverpool metro area: $29,783
- Valencia province: $28,827
- Warsaw metro area: $27,914
- South Yorkshire metro area (Sheffield-Doncaster): $27,593
GREECE (entire country): $26,104
- Palermo province: $25,549
SLOVENIA (entire country): $24,520
- Tallinn-Harju County: $24,119
- Budapest metro area: $22,867
- Thessaloniki regional unit: $22,612
PORTUGAL (entire country): $22,570
- Naples metro area: $22,150
- Zagreb metro area: $21,537
CZECH REPUBLIC (entire country): $20,627
- Poznan metro area: $20,446
- Vilnius County: $20,237
- Porto metro area: $19,634
- Riga metro area: $17,815
SLOVAKIA (entire country): $17,790
ESTONIA (entire country): $17,038
- Wroclaw metro area: $16,638
- Katowice-Bytom-Gliwice metro area: $15,653
- Istanbul province: $15,618
- Tricity (Gdansk) metro area: $14,976
- Krakow metro area: $14,942
CROATIA (entire country): $14,453
LITHUANIA (entire country): $14,235
- Kaunas County: $13,988
HUNGARY (entire country): $13,868
LATVIA (entire country): $13,663
POLAND (entire country): $13,400
TURKEY (entire country): $10,413

It would be interesting to see how these have changed since 2011. As noted earlier, the UK for example has been doing better as have other part of Europe. However I believe Italy and France would look relatively worse. In addition, its interesting to look at these numbers from a Canadian Perspective. Quebec is the poorest of the large provinces of Canada but would be up there with Germany, while the poorest Province in Canada Prince Edward Island (135,000 people) would be between Italy and the UK.

[New Brisavoine]

^^There is no data more recent than 2011 for most European countries. The rankings would not change much if we had 2013 figures anyway. British metro areas would rise a little, due to the higher sterling pound, but neither France nor Italy would decline in the list. People need to realize that a 1% growth rate vs a 3% growth rate has a marginal effect in such a ranking over just a few years. It takes many years for the ranking to change significantly, unless you have a sudden -20% collapse of your economy as in Greece, but this is the case neither of France nor of Italy.

[New Brisavoine]

As requested by some, I'm adding the North American metro areas.

For the US, I'm giving the richest and poorest metro areas of more than 250,000 inhabitants, plus some large metro areas that are neither the richest nor the poorest. I'm using the new definitions of the CSAs. When there is a significant difference with the old CSA definition, I'm indicating it in parenthesis. For some metro areas, we only have the MSA figure (because the CSA is made up of just one MSA + some tiny micropolitan areas for which there are no GDP data).

For Canada, we have GDP figures only for the metro areas of Québec, courtesy of the national statistical office of Québec. For the other provinces, I'm only indicating the provincial GDP. Note that in Alberta, contrary to most other places, the GDP per capita of the two main cities, Calgary and Edmonton, is probably lower than the provincial GDP per capita, because the provincial GDP per capita is boosted by oil production which doesn't take place in those two metro areas.


GDP per capita in 2011 (in US dollars, at market exchange rates, not at purchasing power parity):
- Canton of Geneva: $118,721 (figure inflated by commuters coming from neighboring areas in France and Switzerland)
- Canton of Zurich: $104,733
- cantons of Basel-Stadt & Basel-Land + German district of Lörrach: $93,436 (figure inflated by commuters coming from neighboring areas in Switzerland and France)
- Oslo metro area: between $84,000 and $94,000 (depending on the definition of the metro area)
SWITZERLAND (entire country): $83,679 ($51,352 at PPP)
- Alberta: $79,469
- Anchorage MSA: $78,789
- Stockholm County: $78,301
- Houston MSA: $73,983
- SF Bay Area CSA: $72,613 (old definition of the CSA: $76,511)
- Munich metro area: $71,460
- Paris Region: $71,307
- Copenhagen metro area: $70,128
- Washington-Baltimore CSA: $68,954 (Washington MSA: $77,872)
- New York CSA: $68,141 (old definition of the CSA: $69,514)
- Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia CSA: $67,771 (Seattle-Tacoma MSA: $73,232)
- Hartford-West Hartford, CT CSA: $65,031
- Helsinki-Uusimaa Region: $64,385
- Brussels-Capital + Flemish & Walloon Brabant: $64,322
- Dublin metro area: $62,406
- Boston-Providence CSA: $61,805 (Boston MSA: $74,515)
- Minneapolis CSA: $61,238
- Dallas CSA: $60,919
- Rhine-Main metro area (Frankfurt-Wiesbaden-Mainz): $60,332
- Denver CSA: $59,432
- Vienna metro area: $58,836
- Antwerp arrondissement: $58,318
- San Diego MSA: $58,204
- Stuttgart metro area: $57,832
- Chicago CSA: $57,415
- Philadelphia CSA: $57,294 (old definition of the CSA: $58,397)
- Hamburg metro area: $57,036
- Greater London + 6 home counties: $54,802
- Randstad (Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam, Utrecht): $52,537
- Milan metro area: $52,105
- Atlanta CSA: $51,902
- Los Angeles CSA: $51,834
CANADA (entire country): $51,791
- Lyon metro area: $50,738
THE NETHERLANDS (entire country): $49,968
- Ontario: $49,884
USA (entire country): $49,803
- Québec City metro area: $49,773
- Cleveland-Akron CSA: $49,692 (Cleveland MSA: $55,286)
AUSTRIA (entire country): $49,566
ÉIRE (entire country): $49,344
- British Columbia: $48,326
- Montréal metro area: $48,300
- Rhine-Ruhr metro area (Essen-Düsseldorf-Cologne): $47,914
- Edinburgh metro area: $47,913
- Nice-Monaco (Alpes-Maritimes + Principality of Monaco): $47,763 (figure heavily weighed down by the numerous retirees living in the area)
- Detroit CSA: $46,802
- Toulouse metro area: $46,729
BELGIUM (entire country): $46,539
GERMANY (entire country): $45,293
- Rome metro area: $45,210
- Phoenix MSA: $45,205
- Bristol metro area: $44,793
- Marseille metro area: $44,582
- Miami CSA: $43,319
- Bordeaux metro area: $43,251
- Florence metro area: $42,922
FRANCE (entire country): $42,812
- Turin province: $42,192
- Las Vegas CSA: $41,104
- Madrid province: $40,940
- Nova Scotia: $40,817
- Orlando-Deltona-Daytona Beach CSA: $40,674
- Tampa-St. Petersburg MSA: $39,534
- Berlin metro area: $39,046
- Bilbao province: $39,039
UK (entire country): $38,964
- Liège arrondissement: $37,892
ITALY (entire country): $37,025
- Barcelona province: $35,861
- Glasgow metro area: $35,278
- Athens region (Attica): $35,263
- West Yorkshire metro area (Leeds-Bradford): $34,463
- Manchester metro area: $34,255
- Newcastle metro area: $33,287
- Bratislava metro area: $32,404
- Birmingham metro area: ca. $32,000
- Lisbon metro area: $31,333
SPAIN (entire country): $31,173
- Prague metro area: $30,810
- Ljubljana metro area: $30,480
- Liverpool metro area: $29,783
- Valencia province: $28,827
- Lakeland-Winter Haven, FL MSA: $28,424
- Warsaw metro area: $27,914
- South Yorkshire metro area (Sheffield-Doncaster): $27,593
GREECE (entire country): $26,104
- Laredo, TX MSA: $25,849
- Palermo province: $25,549
SLOVENIA (entire country): $24,520
- Tallinn-Harju County: $24,119
- Budapest metro area: $22,867
- Thessaloniki regional unit: $22,612
PORTUGAL (entire country): $22,570
- Naples metro area: $22,150
- Zagreb metro area: $21,537
- Ocala, FL MSA: $20,822
CZECH REPUBLIC (entire country): $20,627
- Poznan metro area: $20,446
- Vilnius County: $20,237
- Porto metro area: $19,634
- Brownsville-Harlingen, TX MSA: $19,482
- McAllen-Edinburg-Mission, TX MSA: $19,232
- Riga metro area: $17,815
SLOVAKIA (entire country): $17,790
ESTONIA (entire country): $17,038
- Wroclaw metro area: $16,638
- Katowice-Bytom-Gliwice metro area: $15,653
- Istanbul province: $15,618
- Tricity (Gdansk) metro area: $14,976
- Krakow metro area: $14,942
CROATIA (entire country): $14,453
LITHUANIA (entire country): $14,235
- Kaunas County: $13,988
HUNGARY (entire country): $13,868
LATVIA (entire country): $13,663
POLAND (entire country): $13,400
TURKEY (entire country): $10,413

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

People need to realize that a 1% growth rate vs a 3% growth rate has a marginal effect in such a ranking over just a few years. It takes many years for the ranking to change significantly, unless you have a sudden -20% collapse of your economy as in Greece, but this is the case neither of France nor of Italy.

Uh, it's not too hard to figure it out. Still, I think France needs to realize it should act seriously more humble to foreigners now, because quite obviously, we're not doing as fine as we yet easily could if there was no retards to growl as soon as you talk about business or success over here. It's really not like we'd be in a situation to teach anyone, and certainly not the Germans that those same retards I just mentioned are hating.

Originally Posted by big W

It would be interesting to see how these have changed since 2011. As noted earlier, the UK for example has been doing better as have other part of Europe. However I believe Italy and France would look relatively worse. In addition, its interesting to look at these numbers from a Canadian Perspective. Quebec is the poorest of the large provinces of Canada but would be up there with Germany, while the poorest Province in Canada Prince Edward Island (135,000 people) would be between Italy and the UK.

I think life in the UK can be rough, and even rougher than in North America. Life expectancy in Glasgow would be of 59, I heard recently. I could hardly believe it. That is rough like some of the poorest areas of Africa. Otherwise, the single figure of GDP per capita is definitely too short to assess the overall quality of life of a given place. Do you seriously think Canada would be so much more comfy than say Italy, especially northern Italy? Honestly, I wouldn't bet on that when North America is known for being a bit too harsh to their poor yet, which doesn't help to make them so enviable.

[big W]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

^^There is no data more recent than 2011 for most European countries. The rankings would not change much if we had 2013 figures anyway. British metro areas would rise a little, due to the higher sterling pound, but neither France nor Italy would decline in the list. People need to realize that a 1% growth rate vs a 3% growth rate has a marginal effect in such a ranking over just a few years. It takes many years for the ranking to change significantly, unless you have a sudden -20% collapse of your economy as in Greece, but this is the case neither of France nor of Italy.

The thing you missed is that Italy's GDP at market exchange rates actually contracted close to 8% in the last 3 years (which is around a 2.6% contracion per year) and at the same time the population is growing which means a larger impact on the per capita numbers. In addition not all areas of Italy have been effected equally so some would actually rise while others drop signficantly. France for the last 3 years has been stagnent economically but a growing population so it would be a minor drop on a per capita number for the entire country but again the numbers for each region would differ as some areas are growing while others are contracting so there might be a change in the numbers on a relative basis.