[St. John's] Convention Centre Expansion

[SignalHillHiker]

Uninspired is the perfect word.

[rwspencer38]

I'm actually don't really mind the design. Certainly could be bigger but its not terrible in my mind.

The white pannels are definitely windows. There is an image on the city's website that shows an evening sketch where you can see the sunset reflecting off the glass.

[SignalHillHiker]

Oh, good! That makes it an acceptable building. Still could be absolutely anywhere in suburban Florida (that's my yardstick for poor taste, BTW), but good to know it's not a cave.

[Copes]

I just still think so much more could have been done. St. John's, and Newfoundland in general, really is a unique city. It's unlike anything anywhere. Kwajo has the right idea. With our growing tourism industry, we really should have a flagship convention center that brings businesses here as well. Look at what Halifax is doing, then look at what St. John's is doing, and tell me which center you would rather have your convention at.

I don't think our center is competitive. I think that we will need another expansion in ten years time. I think that we should be planning ahead, not playing catchup.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Copes

I think that we should be planning ahead, not playing catchup.

The old people in charge here are still the ones who thought we had to join Canada or we'd starve to death. Their entire identity was formed in an era when we were told we couldn't be anything more than what the mainland's generosity could afford us.

It doesn't surprise me at all that they still follow, still underestimate. I'm guilty of it sometimes myself.

For them, second-rate mainland is a WONDERFUL step up for St. John's.

[Architype]

If you want to know what images the term "convention centre" turns up on Google (see link), you will realize why some, maybe most of us are heavily criticizing it.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&gs...NcKJiAKPuoHAAg

Also, the extension does not architecturally respond to or resemble the original building in any way. I really don't understand it, I think I actually prefer Atlantic Place to this building.

[PoscStudent]

The Rooms could have been an interesting convention centre.

[crackiedog]

Originally Posted by Architype

If you want to know what images the term "convention centre" turns up on Google (see link), you will realize why some, maybe most of us are heavily criticizing it.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&gs...NcKJiAKPuoHAAg

Also, the extension does not architecturally respond to or resemble the original building in any way. I really don't understand it, I think I actually prefer Atlantic Place to this building.

I hadn't even thought of that. If they leave the existing convention center as it is and just attach the new portion it will look terrible. On the other hand to make the original portion fit in with the new portion would have to involve removal of the existing façade. Maybe that is why they have to close the convention center for 2 years while the expansion is being constructed. Are there any renderings that show the completed product?

[AllBlack]

Thanks for the link Architype. I don't attend a lot of conferences these days, but there was a time in the 90's when I was attending a couple of large conferences a year throughout North America. I found most convention centres of that vintage to be functional but from a design point of view, bland and yes uninspired (New Orleans and pre-expansion Denver come to mind).

Modern convention centre design appears to be an opportunity to showcase a city, make a statement so to speak. And our convention centre (phases 1 and 2) has certainly missed the mark in that respect. Begs the question though... while we (rightly) complain, what sort of design would have best suited our city and that location? (arguably the best location for development in the city, centred between mile one, hotels, office towers, george street, the waterfront, etc) Something ultra modern and avant garde, something with lots of glass and sweeping lines like so many out there, or something more traditional? I initially scoffed at PoscStudent's suggestion of the Rooms (which may have been suggested merely to rankle SHH.. ), but something similarly themed (i.e. a modern expression of traditional Nfld architecture) would certainly have been uniquely St. John's.

[rwspencer38]

There is a budget though. Those centres that are featured on google are some the most expensive centres in the world. I think we have to be realistic in what this city can actually obtain. Perhaps the design could be nicer but it certainly cannot be world class leading. I say that because in order to be such a building, you would need a VERY VERY large budget which is just not fesible for such a small city.

The vancouver convention centre which was first on that list cost almost $1 trillion

Ottawa convention centre $170 million

Winnipeg centre was $180 million (and not overly amazing!)

All i'm trying to say is that at $52 million, people are complaining and perhaps rightfully so. This is a public building whereby the expectations need to be tamed. We really cannot afford a $150 million + centre, hell its unlikely we could afford $75 million (which it will likely cost haha), so at what point do we match our wants and expectations with reality?

[Copes]

Originally Posted by rwspencer38

There is a budget though. Those centres that are featured on google are some the most expensive centres in the world. I think we have to be realistic in what this city can actually obtain. Perhaps the design could be nicer but it certainly cannot be world class leading. I say that because in order to be such a building, you would need a VERY VERY large budget which is just not fesible for such a small city.

The vancouver convention centre which was first on that list cost almost $1 trillion

Ottawa convention centre $170 million

Winnipeg centre was $180 million (and not overly amazing!)

All i'm trying to say is that at $52 million, people are complaining and perhaps rightfully so. This is a public building whereby the expectations need to be tamed. We really cannot afford a $150 million + centre, hell its unlikely we could afford $75 million (which it will likely cost haha), so at what point do we match our wants and expectations with reality?

Very good post, and a reasonable question. I would say that the exterior can probably be improved within our budget. As well, the building COULD be taller. There is certainly added cost with this being an expansion and not a new building. That being said, $50-odd-million is about the budget of 351 Water Street, from my understanding.

I hope they have the foresight to be building this with the option to build more at a later date. Particularly, to build up.

[rwspencer38]

I agree copes, it will interesting to see their future plans for the building. I tried to find examples of similar sized cities and their convention centres but I was unable to really dig anything up.

[PoscStudent]

$50 million to renovate and expand what's already there though too.

The building could look better and there should have been public engagement. Why is it that companies are required to stand before the NIMBYs to present proposals but not council?

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by rwspencer38

There is a budget though. Those centres that are featured on google are some the most expensive centres in the world. I think we have to be realistic in what this city can actually obtain. Perhaps the design could be nicer but it certainly cannot be world class leading. I say that because in order to be such a building, you would need a VERY VERY large budget which is just not fesible for such a small city.

The vancouver convention centre which was first on that list cost almost $1 trillion

Ottawa convention centre $170 million

Winnipeg centre was $180 million (and not overly amazing!)

All i'm trying to say is that at $52 million, people are complaining and perhaps rightfully so. This is a public building whereby the expectations need to be tamed. We really cannot afford a $150 million + centre, hell its unlikely we could afford $75 million (which it will likely cost haha), so at what point do we match our wants and expectations with reality?

I agree with Copes. Great post - made me stop and think.

That said... there has to be a solution. Jeddy has changed my way of thinking with his optimism.

As others here have suggested, maybe the city could partner with private investors (say, the Delta) interested in building a new downtown tower and use the convention centre as its base.

And I don't believe things have to be expensive to look amazing. I shop at thrift stores for sport and I look fine.

We can have an affordable centre that looks great. Glass is not that much more expensive than metal cladding; an interesting shape doesn't cost that much more than a glorified Big Box strip mall.

[AllBlack]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we should compete with cities several times our size for convention centre capacity, or budget for that matter. Our centre should be proportionately smaller and less expensive than larger cities, which it is. I just think that, at $60+ million for an expansion of this size, the budget is there for a better design.

[niccanning]

How can Nunatsiavut get this: http://bit.ly/10DMaSq

And Fogo Island this: http://fxn.ws/TEDZ5A

And we get this "crappy" looking convention centre? It makes no sense to me!

(Also, I just noticed all the St. John's sub-forums and it's really exciting!)

[J_Murphy]

Drove by this morning and it looks like Pomerleau are gearing up to start. Noticed a mobile crane on site as well as some trailers and a flat-bed trailer full of gear.

[mrjanejacobs]

First - I am sure the Vancouver convention centre didn't cost $1 Trillion. Hahha - I am guessing this was a type-o.

I don't know much about convention culture but at the same time, a larger convention centre can just accommodate larger conventions. Of course, hotel capacity needs to be in tune with the scale of the centre, which is the real limiting factor.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...tre-final.html

Halifax new centre will cost more than $500 million. haha St.John's isn't out of competitive range with Halifax. Just an FYI - let's stop selling ourselves short.

If Halifax can compete with the big cities, then for damn sure so can we.

Moreover, it's within a $50 million budget to have some architectural charisma. Absolutely. Moreover, it's an investment. It can be iconic and monumental, just as public buildings should be and a more magnificent building will attract even more conventions.

This is about City Image and how we want to project ourselves to outsiders' perceptions. Apparently, retro-90s-style-cheap-big-box-store architecture is that image. haha

[J_Murphy]

http://destinationstjohns.com/articl...st-your-event/

Looks like a few new images have been released.

[mrjanejacobs]

It looks like they took the plans from a box-style Gap/Mark's/Old Navy shopping centre and changed the colours to make it Newfoundland-ish.