Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by esquire

I actually find it a bit strange that the Blades are not better supported considering their lengthy history.

It's because the Blades have been a joke of a franchise for 30 years.

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Why is a 15,000 seat arena justified?

Because we have an arena of that size and it works for what the city and province needs? You compared it to the arenas in London and Grand Rapids but the reality is neither of those arenas attract the same performers or events that Sask Place has. I'd argue a large part of that has to do with the size of the building and how many people they can fit in it; it makes it worthwhile for concerts to stop on their way between Edmonton and Winnipeg. It's also necessary to host events like the World Juniors now that the NHL cities are beginning to bid for them.

It is a bit of an anomaly in terms of how large it is compared to Saskatoon's size, but it's also the main arena for the entire province. 15K for a million people seems acceptable.

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

If it's at least MTS Centre or better, then it will be an NHL caliber arena, because last time I checked the Jets have been playing in that arena (now called Canada Life Centre) for 11 years.

I was speaking capacity-wise with respect to MTS Centre. I don't expect Saskatoon's new arena to have the same amount/quality of things like luxury or press boxes, which are really what makes an NHL rink these days. There's just no need for any of it.

That's pre-COVID too. What would that $170 million get you with the new realities facing the world...another Avenir Centre? Don't get me wrong, that looks like a great building, and the quality would be an improvement on Sasktel Centre, but unless there are plans to significantly increase the expenditure on the arena (some private cash should be infused into this project), it would be better if Saskatoon stuck with their current arena.

I think you kind of answered your own question with your hypothesizing. There's no way Saskatoon will get anything worthwhile for $170 million anymore, so that number is guaranteed to increase considerably and likely will include provincial money as well. The current rink isn't a permanent solution for the many reasons that have already been discussed in this thread. They'll sell it as part of a downtown revitalization along with a new/renovated convention centre.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Saskatoon has 38% the population of Winnipeg and 40% the population of Quebec City by the latest metro pop stats. (sorry for being pedantic )

I appreciate it.

[WhipperSnapper]

I on't see the value in spending hundreds of millions for the occasional event. Still, it's not worse than all levels of government contributing to a "national" opera house in Toronto that, in all honesty, only the top 10% can frequently attend.

[ericmacm]

A bunch of relevant sports/stadium news that hasn't been brought up yet:

Langley Canadian Premier League Team - The Canadian Premier League has announced a new team in Langley BC that will play out of Willoughby Community Park in 2023. The stadium is apparently going to be modular in construction and hold around 8,000 people.

Langford Starlight Stadium Expansion - Langford BC city council has approved an $8M plan to expand Pacific FC's Starlight Stadium capacity from 5,000 to 10,000 people. The city is going to be working with BC Hydro to remove the infamous hydro tower.

Oakland Athletics Relocation - The Oakland Athletics move to Vegas may be blocked by Nevada Governor Steve Sisolak, who apparently might not be wanting to offer up state money to build the stadium, which has been planned around public funds from the beginning. The proposed stadium plan is also not finding much support on the private capital front in Vegas, so they might be out of luck if public funds are blocked. If the Oakland stadium deal ends up falling apart as well, they may have to start looking at other cities too. Might potentially mean something on the Montreal or Vancouver front.

[esquire]

^ Thanks for the update.

I visited the Langford stadium last month and it is a lovely park, but that current configuration is as weird as it gets. I don't know how that ever came into being in the first place. It will be great to see the hydro tower removed.

Also cool to see the CPL going to Langley. When I was in BC last month I attended a Van. Giants WHL game at the Langley Events Centre. I was impressed by how well supported the team was... my impression was that teams way out in the 'burbs tend to flounder somewhat. But there is clearly a strong local sports culture in Langley and I'm sure the CPL can build on that.

Looking at the CPL map in the article linked to above, it looks as though the league is growing nicely. Although I find it somewhat odd that it hasn't yet made its way into the Southern Ontario cities that appear to have the population to support the CPL and don't already have pro sports, e.g. London, K-W, Windsor. Seems to me that the CPL could do quite well there. They have certainly grabbed the attention of people in Victoria.

[ericmacm]

It's pretty evident that right now the CPL will only crop up where interested owners approach the league. As much as I hate to say it (since I really badly want to see more teams in SW Ontario), ownership is going to be hard to find in these cities. It took the commissioner stepping down and becoming an owner just to get the ball moving on a team in Windsor, and it's going to take a lot more to get teams in London and Kitchener too.

On the London front, there has been interest from the city in building a downtown soccer stadium for a few years now, but I doubt it will move until some kind of ownership group makes a push. I also don't know about any effort on either an ownership group or stadium out of Kitchener. There has been some speculation on a Windsor stadium site but there is nothing solid.

[JustForTheHalibut]

Fantastic to see BC well represented in CPL, we just need a team in the Interior next.

Originally posted by Whippersnapper

Saskatoon has no chance at getting an NHL Team. The stars aligned for Winnipeg. It may not for Quebec City. Regardless, Saskatoon is half the size of Quebec and 1/3 the size of Winnipeg. I don't have an opinion on how big to build. Building something twice as big than necessary (expect for once a month event) at 3 to 4 times the cost is probably not a great decision.

The public have gobbled up arenas anchoring new revitalized districts to justify the massive public investment. They aren't necessary in creating an entertainment district as they don't provide a great anchor. It's a massive dead space when not in use. At best, it's in use 3 to 4 hours a day.

A lot of posturing by Winnipeg posters about Saskatoon getting a newer, possibly larger arena, I wonder why.

This may sound like a stupid question but has building those larger arenas in Canada always been about getting an NHL team. I know Winnipeg, Hamilton and Quebec City's arenas were mostly as a lure for the NHL but has that always been the case?

Cities in the USA similar size to Saskatoon like Lubbock Texas and Lincoln Nebraska have newer same sized arenas and similar to SaskTel Centre but I don't even know if they have icemaking capabilities to make it an ice rink for the NHL. Other cities like Madison Wisconsin and Fargo North Dakota have even larger indoor arenas stadiums. FargoDome would be the largest permanent roofed stadium in Canada if it were north of the border, bigger than Bell Centre in Montreal or Toronto's Air Canada Centre. I don't think the size of city really has anything to do with what size of facility built, just as long as it's a good investment and it gets used a lot, which I believe places like that have, including Saskatoon.

I don't know much about the arena situation in other provinces but has a city ever built an arena or stadium smaller than what they already have already just to have a splashy new arena.
My guess is if Saskatoon doesn't build a larger arena then that Rush lacrosse team will just stay in the higher capacity arena for more ticket sales like they have, to begin with. Since that province ponied up big for building that Rider Stadium in Regina, Saskatoon will be gunning for just as much financial support for new arena in Saskatoon, just my guess.

Quick look at SaskTel Centre website to see if it gets much usage other than NLL, WHL, CEBL and it looks like a fairly brisk concert schedule. Busier to be sure than the arena in London Ontario but not much less than Roger's Arena in Vancouver. Side note, how many venues in Ontario are named Budweiser Centre anyway...

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

Other cities like Madison Wisconsin and Fargo North Dakota have even larger indoor arenas stadiums. FargoDome would be the largest permanent roofed stadium in Canada if it were north of the border, bigger than Bell Centre in Montreal or Toronto's Air Canada Centre.

I don't think McGill or UofT are playing football in the Bell or AC Centres

[thurmas]

Fargodome is the NDSU Bison football stadium it is not a hockey arena. The Scheels arena in Fargo and the Ralph Engelstad arena in Grand Forks for UND are the main hockey arena's in ND.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

A lot of posturing by Winnipeg posters about Saskatoon getting a newer, possibly larger arena, I wonder why.

Dog River/Wullerton syndrome?

I mean, if I had a bent against a place, I’d encourage them to go build a monument to hubris. The bigger the better. I would encourage Saskatoon to build a North Korea-like stadium for the Blades. Then I would chuckle as they tried to feed their white elephant. Oh sure, the propagandists would point to their super stadium as proof of Saskatoon’s ‘world class’ city status, but they would secretly know that Saskatoon is Saskatoon deep down. (Not trying to throw shade here, just using the mentioned example). Now, if one were to deal with realism and encourage the city to build a right-sized area for the foreseeable future, that would be prudent concern for the taxpayers of the city.

Then I would buy a ticket to a Jets game and feel satisfied regardless of whatever some other city does.

[Denscity]

Vancouver happenings this weekend:

World Rugby 7s at BC Place
Billie Jean King tennis at the Pacific Coliseum
Slipknot with guests play Roger's Arena Sunday night.

[EpicPonyTime]

CPL expansion is really exciting. I'm hoping we hear something on the Saskatoon front soon. It's been pretty quiet since they announced the horse race track would become the stadium. Also, the gall in them to keep the Marquis Downs name.

Originally Posted by thewave46

Dog River/Wullerton syndrome?

I mean, if I had a bent against a place, I’d encourage them to go build a monument to hubris. The bigger the better. I would encourage Saskatoon built a North Korea-like stadium for the Blades. Then I would chuckle as they tried to feed their white elephant. Oh sure, the propagandists would point to their super stadium as proof of Saskatoon’s ‘world class’ city status, but they would secretly know that Saskatoon is Saskatoon deep down. (Not trying to throw shade here, just using the mentioned example). Now, if one were to deal with realism and encourage the city to build a right-sized area for the foreseeable future, that would be prudent concern for the taxpayers of the city.

Then I would buy a ticket to a Jets game and feel satisfied regardless of whatever some other city does.

What is this

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

Quick look at SaskTel Centre website to see if it gets much usage other than NLL, WHL, CEBL and it looks like a fairly brisk concert schedule. Busier to be sure than the arena in London Ontario but not much less than Roger's Arena in Vancouver. Side note, how many venues in Ontario are named Budweiser Centre anyway...

I don't know if there is anything called Budweiser Centre anywhere. There is Budweiser Gardens in London and the Budweiser Stage in Toronto. Anything else called Budweiser anything? Funny you bring up Budweiser being overused as a venue name in the sentence after mentioning Rogers lol

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

Fantastic to see BC well represented in CPL, we just need a team in the Interior next.






A lot of posturing by Winnipeg posters about Saskatoon getting a newer, possibly larger arena, I wonder why.

This may sound like a stupid question but has building those larger arenas in Canada always been about getting an NHL team. I know Winnipeg, Hamilton and Quebec City's arenas were mostly as a lure for the NHL but has that always been the case?

Cities in the USA similar size to Saskatoon like Lubbock Texas and Lincoln Nebraska have newer same sized arenas and similar to SaskTel Centre but I don't even know if they have icemaking capabilities to make it an ice rink for the NHL. Other cities like Madison Wisconsin and Fargo North Dakota have even larger indoor arenas stadiums. FargoDome would be the largest permanent roofed stadium in Canada if it were north of the border, bigger than Bell Centre in Montreal or Toronto's Air Canada Centre. I don't think the size of city really has anything to do with what size of facility built, just as long as it's a good investment and it gets used a lot, which I believe places like that have, including Saskatoon.

I don't know much about the arena situation in other provinces but has a city ever built an arena or stadium smaller than what they already have already just to have a splashy new arena.
My guess is if Saskatoon doesn't build a larger arena then that Rush lacrosse team will just stay in the higher capacity arena for more ticket sales like they have, to begin with. Since that province ponied up big for building that Rider Stadium in Regina, Saskatoon will be gunning for just as much financial support for new arena in Saskatoon, just my guess.

Quick look at SaskTel Centre website to see if it gets much usage other than NLL, WHL, CEBL and it looks like a fairly brisk concert schedule. Busier to be sure than the arena in London Ontario but not much less than Roger's Arena in Vancouver. Side note, how many venues in Ontario are named Budweiser Centre anyway...

It does happen. Hamilton rebuilt a stadium with a smaller capacity from Ivor Wynne. Ottawa did a partial rebuild of their stadium with a smaller capacity. Calgary's new arena (before cancellation) would have had a smaller capacity than the Saddledome.

In 2019 (last year prior to Covid), London's arena outdrew Saskatoon's by a significant margin. It is the busier arena despite having the smaller capacity. Grand Rapids arena, with it's configuration and smaller capacity was 58th on the top-200 busiest arenas list, drawing nearly 3 times more ticket sales than Sasktel Centre.

https://data.pollstar.com/chart/2019...Arenas_797.pdf

WhipperSnapper is not from Winnipeg.

[blueandgoldguy]

I would love to see a CPL in the interior of BC - Kamloops or Kelowna. WHL in the winter, CPL soccer in the summer.

I wonder if there are any individuals/groups remotely interested in a team in those cities?

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

I would love to see a CPL in the interior of BC - Kamloops or Kelowna. WHL in the winter, CPL soccer in the summer.

I wonder if there are any individuals/groups remotely interested in a team in those cities?

Agreed for sure.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

In 2019 (last year prior to Covid), London's arena outdrew Saskatoon's by a significant margin. It is the busier arena despite having the smaller capacity. Grand Rapids arena, with it's configuration and smaller capacity was 58th on the top-200 busiest arenas list, drawing nearly 3 times more ticket sales than Sasktel Centre.

[url]https://data.pollstar.com/chart/2019/12/Top200Arenas_797.pdf[/url

Worth noting that Budweiser Gardens is also due for a seating expansion to fill out the incomplete section of the bowl on the western side of the arena, it's been identified as a need for a number of years now but hasn't been addressed yet. I wouldn't be surprised to see a plan emerge over the next couple of years given London's growth.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

Worth noting that Budweiser Gardens is also due for a seating expansion to fill out the incomplete section of the bowl on the western side of the arena, it's been identified as a need for a number of years now but hasn't been addressed yet. I wouldn't be surprised to see a plan emerge over the next couple of years given London's growth.

Are you sure? I have only heard about a westward expansion of the "back of house" area, where they keep putting up a temporary structure in the parking lot when they have events like the CCMA, Junos or other large scale events. I haven't heard a thing about the seating area being expanded, other than many people wish it was built larger in the first place. Although I'm not sure that area is where the seats needed to be. That area is generally closed for concerts unless they are the type that don't close off behind the stage, or in the round type shows.

The only media story I find about it is from 9 years ago and it mentioned the tent they set up for the World Figure Skating championships and said the arena would need something permanent to be able to compete for large events. Since then, we have had another Memorial Cup, the Junos, and 2 CCMA's, so maybe they figure we are fine they way they do it now. Of course, the building is 20 years old now and will be needing some money spent on it, so maybe this will end up being part of that.

https://london.ctvnews.ca/bud-garden...1120841373c245

[GreatTallNorth2]

Expanding Budweiser Gardens is pretty much impossible with regards to seating capacity. The plan is/was to expand the area to accommodate the larger stages and equipment concerts have now. I really wish it could be expanded by a few thousand, but it was not built that way. I know that Kitchener had several plans to expand the auditorium and decided to keep it to about 8,000 and then down the road build a bigger arena.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

I don't know much about the arena situation in other provinces but has a city ever built an arena or stadium smaller than what they already have already just to have a splashy new arena.

That's the case based on the latest official news on Ottawa's Civic Centre. The current arena has a capacity of 10,000, but it's Lansdowne replacement would be 5,000. Presumably, this would be for two reasons: a new arena's ancillary space (concourse, washrooms, other) would be proportionally larger than in 1967, but also, the City and OSEG (who runs the site and owns most of Lansdowne's sports franchises) want space for more residential uses.