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  #5881  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2022, 5:39 PM
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This render just popped up on Trinity Development's website with no explanation.

It looks to be a complete rebuild of the North Side stands at Lansdowne Park in Ottawa with three new residential towers where the Civic Centre Arena is now. The tallest tower looks to be around 38 stories tall. There is no Site Plan Application yet for this, so it's a mystery for now.

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  #5882  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2022, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
This render just popped up on Trinity Development's website with no explanation.

It looks to be a complete rebuild of the North Side stands at Lansdowne Park in Ottawa with three new residential towers where the Civic Centre Arena is now. The tallest tower looks to be around 38 stories tall. There is no Site Plan Application yet for this, so it's a mystery for now.

No roof on the north side stands sounds like a bad idea. That would leave 90% of the stadium with no roof as only a small section of upper rows on the south side are covered.

I am hesitant to buy tickets in advance if there isn't a roof over my head. Especially in the fall.

I am not the only one I am sure.
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  #5883  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2022, 5:58 PM
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Most CFL (and NFL) stadiums don't have a roof - I'm not sure it'll be a huge problem!
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  #5884  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2022, 5:59 PM
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Maybe I've just gotten wimpy.
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  #5885  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2022, 6:37 PM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
This render just popped up on Trinity Development's website with no explanation.
Link to Trinity Development page with drawing please. This links to your Flickr account.
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  #5886  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2022, 6:50 PM
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Link to Trinity Development page with drawing please. This links to your Flickr account.
Here's the link
https://www.trinity-group.com/

I always share from Flickr so I can control the size displayed on the forum, plus the image was not shareable from the Trinity site.
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Last edited by Harley613; Apr 9, 2022 at 6:51 PM. Reason: additional info
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  #5887  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2022, 10:14 PM
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Baseless speculation time: Trinity are aware that an arena is coming to Lebreton and the 67’s are planning a move there.
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  #5888  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2022, 10:24 PM
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Baseless speculation time: Trinity are aware that an arena is coming to Lebreton and the 67’s are planning a move there.
I was just going to ask what was going to happen with the 67s, but yes, that scenario makes sense. An arena at Lebreton could certainly handle a second tenant.

I wonder if the north side stands at TD Place would match the south side stands in terms of size, number of rows, etc.? Hard to tell by looking at the rendering.

I agree with Acajack that in the interests of fan comfort they should consider putting in a canopy to cover at least some of the seats.
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  #5889  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2022, 11:54 PM
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I agree with Acajack that in the interests of fan comfort they should consider putting in a canopy to cover at least some of the seats.
That's what Hamilton faced when they decided to build from scratch instead of refurb. You can't have a have and have-not side, they should have basically the same amenities.
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  #5890  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2022, 11:56 PM
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I was just going to ask what was going to happen with the 67s, but yes, that scenario makes sense. An arena at Lebreton could certainly handle a second tenant.
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the structure of the North stands and arena are on the quickly ticking clock. Can somebody confirm that.
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  #5891  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2022, 2:05 AM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the structure of the North stands and arena are on the quickly ticking clock. Can somebody confirm that.
The complex is structurally sound, but not built to modern standards.

I agree with others, the fact that this new rendering does not seem to include an arena at the base could indicate something is afoot at LeBreton.A 15k building for the Sens, 67s, Blackjacks and concerts/events could make for one of the busiest arenas in Canada.
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  #5892  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2022, 2:10 AM
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The complex is structurally sound, but not built to modern standards.

I agree with others, the fact that this new rendering does not seem to include an arena at the base could indicate something is afoot at LeBreton.A 15k building for the Sens, 67s, Blackjacks and concerts/events could make for one of the busiest arenas in Canada.
Today I learned Ottawa has a professional basketball team

The issue with the existing North Side stands and arena is maintenance. It's a massive money pit to keep the old infrastructure running.
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  #5893  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2022, 5:50 AM
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Lansdowne north side stands and arena should be demolished, city staff say
Michael Woods CTV News Ottawa Digital Multi-Skilled Journalist June 25, 2021

OTTAWA - The arena and north side stands at TD Place should be demolished and replaced for Lansdowne Park to succeed as a destination, a new report from the city says.

The facilities are “approaching functional obsolescence” and should be replaced with a smaller arena, housing and commercial and retail space as part of revitalizing the site, which has sometimes struggled to attract foot traffic on non-game days.



The recommendation is part of a big-picture report about the future of Lansdowne Park as a sustainable endeavour for the next 33 years.

The city and Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group run Lansdowne as partners. That partnership ended the 2019-20 fiscal year with an $11-million loss, mostly due to the pandemic.

That spurred the establishment of two working groups to examine Lansdowne’s future, and look at options to enhance its long-term viability. One includes just city staff, the other has both city staff and OSEG representatives.

Chief among the findings is the recommendation to demolish the Civic Centre, where the Ottawa 67’s play, and the north side stands of TD Place stadium, home of the Redblacks.

The stands and arena were built in 1967 and although they are structurally sound, they are rife with problems.

The washrooms are so old that 50 port-a-potties are brought into the stadium for Redblacks game. The arena ceiling is leaking. There are persistent mold outbreaks. The arena roof and concourse aren’t insulated, leading to a cold rink and high operating costs.

The dressing rooms are small, there are accessibility issues, no press box, and a lack of proper ventilation for concessions.

“This already old facility is approaching functional obsolescence,” the report says. “Even if it was maintained at its current state, (it) would in actual fact continue to fall further behind what guest expectations are in a competitive marketplace."

Three options considered

The working groups examined three options for the stands and the arena: keep the status quo, refurbish them, or replace them with new, modern structures. They chose the replacement option.

The report recommends exploring an option that would replace the arena and stands with a smaller, five-thousand-seat multi-purpose event centre, which it says is a more appropriate size for OHL games and mid-sized musical and cultural events.

To help pay for the project, the city would sell the air rights above the existing structures that remain to build new housing, some of which would be affordable housing. It would also make room for new commercial or retail space.

There are no estimates in the report about what the demolition and replacement would cost.

The old south side stands were demolished in 2011 and replaced with brand new stands featuring club seating, a large concourse and modern vending facilities.

The review also looks at ways to attract crowds to Lansdowne on non-game days, which has proven to be a challenge at times since it was revitalized. It makes special note that the space should be more inviting to pedestrians and cyclists.

The report also has a public engagement plan to ensure the community is involved in the decision-making for Lansdowne.

The Lansdowne report will be discussed at the city’s finance and economic development committee on July 6.
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  #5894  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2022, 5:57 AM
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First step taken toward potential demolition of Civic Centre and north side stands at TD Place
Ted Raymond CTV News Ottawa Digital Multi-Skilled Journalist July 6, 2021

OTTAWA - The City of Ottawa's finance and economic development committee has approved a plan that would investigate tearing down the Civic Centre and the north side stands at TD Place.

...

The finance committee is recommending that city council approve a plan to replace the Civic Centre and the north side stadium stands with new, modern structures, as well as review the urban park and public realm amenities at Lansdowne Park.

This would only be step one of what will likely be a multi-stage plan to improve the facilities at Lansdowne. The city is looking to share costs with the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group on a study. Staff estimate the city's share would be $675,000, with an additional $200,000 for public consultation.

If the recommendations in the report are approved, an update and potential proposal would be presented to city council in early 2022.

Council will review the recommendations July 21.
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  #5895  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2022, 6:07 AM
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North side sucks, and so does the arena at Lansdowne, report says
Council to consider rebuilding stands and arena, add housing to help Lansdowne
Joanne Chianello CBC News June 25, 2021

North-side stands obsolete



When the city entered into its partnership over Lansdowne almost a decade ago, it spent $135 million to renovate the stadium, which remains publicly owned but is operated by OSEG. The city was forced to replace the decrepit south-side stands, but kept the north-side ones to save money.

...

The age and design also means the former Civic Centre, now TD Place arena, no longer meets the current standards and technical requirements required for many sports and music events, the report says.

It's currently not possible to host events in the stadium and arena at the same time.

"Concessions are small, below requirements of a modern facility and lack proper ventilation, creating inefficiencies in food services and offerings," the report adds.
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  #5896  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2022, 6:36 AM
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Lansdowne's north-side stands a monument to false economies
City officials knew — or should have known — about the problems with the north side more than a decade ago.
Joanne Chianello CBC News July 10, 2021

The reports of the north-side stands at Lansdowne paint a less-than-ideal picture.

The wonky 1960s-era design of the stadium stands attached underneath the TD Place arena, known as the Civic Centre, has resulted in load-bearing issues — people cannot be in the stadium stands and in the arena underneath simultaneously if there's any chance of snow.

The arena's ventilation is subpar, and even when the system is running at full-strength, fans complain of being cold in their seats. There are mould issues. The suites are closed because they no longer meet modern-day building codes. The list continues.

So it's no surprise that the city and its private partners in Lansdowne — the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group (OSEG) — are now considering tearing it all down.

Except here's the thing: these sorry details are from reports that are more than a decade old.

This week, Mayor Jim Watson surprised reporters somewhat by openly admitting regret that the north-side complex wasn't rebuilt when Lansdowne underwent its overhaul less than a decade ago.

"We probably, in hindsight, should have done the north-side stands-Civic Centre renovation at the same time," he said.

Well, no kidding.

In addition to all the engineering-type problems that city officials already knew about, there was the general fact that the north stands had been built in 1967. Virtually no events centre meets current entertainment industry standards after 40 or 50 years.

The people who pushed for this deal knew the drawbacks of the north-side stands. Or at least they should have.

So why weren't the stands rebuilt?

According to Watson, the main two reasons were that the north-side stands "could last another decade or so" and "one of financing."

The politics of good enough

Let's take the mayor's first point, that the stands were OK.

Sure, they're going to last. They are a giant complex of steel and concrete, which are inspected regularly to make sure they are structurally sound.

But every year, the complex becomes less and less appealing, which everyone knew more than a decade ago. Soon after OSEG took over operations there, it had to spend $23 million to fix the Civic Centre's spongy roof — and it still leaks.

Of course we want city officials to spend public money wisely. But prudent spending doesn't always mean less spending. (Prime example: Our "Chevy" versus "Cadillac" LRT system, as per the mayor's description. Apologies to Chevy.)

Good enough is not often a recipe for triumph. There were a lot of question marks surrounding the Lansdowne plan, one of which was how to attract enough people to the site.

By not addressing the clear drawbacks of the main sports and entertainment assets, the city didn't do all that it could have to set the stage for success. And now we're looking at paying for it anyway, a decade after losing out on who knows how many opportunities.

Consider this: the arena is so outdated, it doesn't meet the technical specs required to host the national junior hockey championships.

The mayor is fond of saying that the detractors of the Lansdowne redevelopment preferred the crummy asphalt parking lot that was there in the before times.

This is, of course, not true.

More to the point, while "better than a parking lot" may be achievable, it's an awfully low bar.
Cost of stands in the 9-figures

Now, the money.

When the city — which owns the Lansdowne Park site including the stadium and Civic Centre complex — finalized its highly complex partnership with OSEG in 2012, council committed to spending $135 million on the stadium. Almost $100 million of that went to replacing the condemned south-side stands.

How much would it have cost to replace the north stands, complete with a new arena? There are no public records that show it had been seriously contemplated, but it would have been more expensive than its south-end counterparts.

If we had spent time then re-imagining the north stands, perhaps Lansdowne — which currently needs an additional one million visitors to be sustainable long-term — would have been more successful.



Or, perhaps, if taxpayers had known the full cost, the project would never have gone ahead at all.

Given the intense controversy around the Lansdowne deal, would it ever have passed if the cost was, say, $250 million instead of $135 million?

It's pretty likely that political consideration entered the calculation when folks decided not to replace the north-side stands.

But not only was that a false economy — if this project goes ahead, we'll be paying a lot more now, not to mention the disruption the construction will cause — it's not transparent governance.

Selling a so-called vision with an artificially lower price tag, knowing that taxpayers will probably have to cough up more later on is what politicians often do.

As well, looking back, if the city had suggested replacing both sets of stands — akin to replacing the entire stadium complex — it would probably have resulted in a larger discussion about whether the Glebe was the right place for a sports stadium, or whether the municipality should even own a stadium.

Vocal critics were trying to make those points anyway, but as long as champions of the plan could argue the stadium was only being refurbished, those wider discussions were kept effectively at bay.

It's no way to make a building decision, but here we are seven years later, contemplating a big outlay that's corrective rather than creative.

The north stands are a concrete monument to the fallacy of short-term bargains. And if a new complex is built — a big if — it should stand as a warning against incrementalism in all public projects.
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  #5897  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2022, 1:24 PM
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While in general I'm of the opinion that roofs are "nice to have", not "need to have".... It's a bit different when the existing structure already has one. To go without would seem to cheaping out or moving backwards.

I was very thankful for the roof the one time I went to TD place, it absolutely poured that day.
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  #5898  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2022, 2:09 PM
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That's what Hamilton faced when they decided to build from scratch instead of refurb. You can't have a have and have-not side, they should have basically the same amenities.
You totally can... you just price the seats accordingly. Typically in a football stadium the priciest seats are near midfield and it gets cheaper as you go closer to the goal lines. With a stadium that has one side covered and the other not covered, you could make the covered seats the pricier seats and the uncovered ones the "cheap seats".

Or you could do as Sask did back when they had one stand covered and one uncovered, and make it all the same cost regardless of side. I'm sure that some fans with season ticket seniority moved to choice seats under the west side canopy as a "reward" of sorts for their long tenured fandom.


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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
The report recommends exploring an option that would replace the arena and stands with a smaller, five-thousand-seat multi-purpose event centre, which it says is a more appropriate size for OHL games and mid-sized musical and cultural events.
So there is an arena component after all? That's exciting, although I wonder what the prospects would be if there is a much larger NHL arena right nearby. The Civic Centre worked as a more central alternative to the CTC in Kanata, but it may not be so appealing if a new rink is built at Lebreton. It may make more sense for the 67s to simply play there, assuming a deal can be worked out with Sens ownership.
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  #5899  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2022, 2:27 PM
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Nice to see the idea of a new stadium is on hold and serious upgrades being made at the Rogers centre.

Friday we got to see the new LED Screens and lighting in play at our home opener. Also it should be a fun year as the Jays are stacked and are favorites to make the playoffs this year.

Video Link


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  #5900  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2022, 6:13 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
You totally can... you just price the seats accordingly. Typically in a football stadium the priciest seats are near midfield and it gets cheaper as you go closer to the goal lines. With a stadium that has one side covered and the other not covered, you could make the covered seats the pricier seats and the uncovered ones the "cheap seats".

Agreed.

In Hamilton, it wasn't so much about "amenities" as it was having the infrastructure up to current standards. When they were considering replacing the south stands (which were, I believe, built in the late 1950s) there was only so much that could be done to refresh the north ones without an expensive rebuild (and they were about a decade newer). So there would have been a clear deficiency for the north side in terms of meeting standards for things like stairways, restrooms, concession areas and kitchens, etc. Accessibility would have been a huge issue as well.

I recall the team noting that full demolition and rebuild made things a lot easier. And being able to rotate the stadium provided a lot more space to work with (though it did mean losing an adjacent field -- Brian Timmis Stadium -- used largely for soccer and high school sports, that was to be replaced by a new playing field on a brownfield site a few blocks north... this has yet to be built)
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