Surrey Langley Skytrain - Expo Line Extension | Proposed

[Trainguy]

Is Horgan nuts? Surrey is an NDP minefield and he comes up with this:

“I respect his views on this. But the decisions that were made were not exclusively for Surrey. They were for the entire region… It was a plan that we funded… and we expect that we are going to proceed with that plan. But we’ll hear from the Mayors’ Council and we’ll go from there.”


The LRT was 100% a Surrey vanity project that had nothing to do with the rest of the region. Disrespecting the voters of Surrey, who made a choice to squash LRT, and future NDP voters is not a smart move. He is better to just go with what the voters want.

[Metro-One]

This is where the scare tactic of a delay is odd from the LRT supporters. The Line to Langley in the LRT plan was not going to commence until around 2023 anyways.

[Metro-One]

Horgan seemed to have no problem stopping the George Massey Bridge project despite being further along than this LRT...

Seriously, they better not cluster fuck this.

Or is this just a cryptic way for him to wash his hands of any responsibility in making a decision?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Or is this just a cryptic way for him to wash his hands of any responsibility in making a decision?

Exactly.

First rule of politics - first I'd better cover my butt.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Would the L-line provisions be maintained for Skytrain on the L-line? (I guess so, but it might take 20 years to get the L-line built if the Expo is the way to go)- I mean, they bought what I presume were provisions for LRT Stations- the Skytrain Stations are the same as the LRT Stations, at least in spacing, so I'd assume they use the same land.


Then again, long-term thinking is a weakness of these regions' municipalities.

LRT stations were going to be on-ground in the middle of the road - if they ever get around to putting a Skytrain on the L Line route it most certainly won't be on-ground (which is the issue pretty much everyone had with their LRT plans). Beyond that they hadn't started shopping yet.

I'm waiting to hear what Surrey's next move is going to be. Where will the stations be on the Fraser Hwy extension of the Expo Line? What are they going to eventually do with the 96B when it needs to be upgraded (I've suggested a subway). Are they going to change their long-term plans so it's buses instead of LRT all over the place (they released a draft concept awhile ago)?

PS You get see the draft on pg 268 of this thread.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

LRT stations were going to be on-ground in the middle of the road - if they ever get around to putting a Skytrain on the L Line route it most certainly won't be on-ground (which is the issue pretty much everyone had with their LRT plans). Beyond that they hadn't started shopping yet.

I'm waiting to hear what Surrey's next move is going to be. Where will the stations be on the Fraser Hwy extension of the Expo Line? What are they going to eventually do with the 96B when it needs to be upgraded (I've suggested a subway). Are they going to change their long-term plans so it's buses instead of LRT all over the place (they released a draft concept awhile ago)?

PS You get see the draft on pg 268 of this thread.

McCallum's already said Surrey First's light rail network is kaput, so BRT and B-Lines are the logical substitute. Probably'll have to wait for the Langley extension, though.

Does it need to be a subway all the way through? Far as I can tell, the only points of conflict for an e-rail are the Expo Line and Guildford Mall; otherwise, it's smooth sailing like No.3 in Richmond.

[Waders]

A report from the Globe and Mail describes a possible road map to switch from LRT to Skytrain technology in Surrey.

I think 2 years wait is worth it if that means a 'proper' rapid transit system is done. So this would mean the skytrain extension would be ready around 2027?

B.C. mayors coming to terms with Surrey’s transit shakeup

Surrey residents would have to wait about two years longer for new transit and would get a different and shorter route if the city insists on ditching its current plan to build tram-like lines in favour of an elevated rail service.

But the details of what could be involved in making the switch are starting to become clear, say politicians, officials, and transit advocates from the Lower Mainland region.

After Doug McCallum’s election to the mayor’s chair last weekend on a platform that included switching from light rail to SkyTrain, regional mayors suggested the change would tear apart a carefully negotiated regional transit plan and could potentially cost them more money.

But, after a couple days of initial dismay, the tone is changing.

“It does feel like a step back to scrap the line after all the work that was put in over the last decade, but there has to be a recognition that if Surrey does not support it, there’s no way to make it a success,” said Jonathan Coté, the mayor of New Westminster and one of the previous leaders on transit issues at the TransLink mayors' council.

He emphasized that approving a change will ultimately be up to the 16 new mayors and five veteran ones on the TransLink mayors’ council, many of whom have their own urgent transit demands.

Mr. Coté said it is possible to move the current $1.65-billion in Phase 2 funding from the federal, provincial and regional governments from the current Surrey-Newton-Guildford tram-like light-rail line to a SkyTrain line running from Surrey to Langley, but not immediately. The light-rail line was about to start construction.

Mr. Coté noted that the $1.65-billion would likely only be enough to get the line to one of Surrey’s town centres in the east.

“The funding will not get you to the city of Langley. It could get you to Fleetwood and then you could make bus connections from there. That will definitely be an option,” he said.
...
What has to happen for Mr. McCallum to get everything he wants is a complex multistage process, according to transit officials and regional politicians who were granted anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly in interviews over the past several days.

He will have to formally cancel Surrey’s request for money to the light-rail line, according to former mayors' council chair Richard Walton. It’s not clear yet whether Surrey would be asked to pay back the $50-million already spent on preparations for that line, Mr. Ladner said.

Then he would have to get everyone on the mayors’ council and TransLink board to agree that the money could be shifted to the SkyTrain Langley line, several mayors say.

TransLink would then have to put in a new formal application to the federal bureaucracy that vets infrastructure spending for a full review of the business case, a source at TransLink said.

TransLink would need to do two years of engineering work and planning work, including extensive public consultation, to determine the exact costs and to make sure that, this time, the public supports the transit project, the source said.

Then the already committed $1.65-billion could be used to build part of the line.

After that, Mr. McCallum would need to ensure that other mayors agreed that the $1.9-billion that was tentatively budgeted for the second light-rail line to Langley is then approved to build the remainder of the line, Mr. Coté said.

Phase 3 is not funded yet, so the federal, provincial and regional government will, yet again, have to agree on how much each level will pay and, for TransLink, what the funding sources will be, he said.
...

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Waders

A report from the Globe and Mail descrubes a possible road map to switch from LRT to Skytrain technology in Surrey.

This makes perfect sense. Doug should not get greedy about having the line go all the way to Langley. That was phase 3 anyway. I would be happy with ending in Fleetwood for now. A compromise would serve everyone well.

I emailed Translink and told them my thoughts.

My question is: If Translink did due diligence with extensive public consultation like the article says, how come the voters said otherwise? There obviously was a disconnect somewhere.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Heh, what happened to the 10-20 year delay that Surrey was warned about?

Originally Posted by Trainguy

My question is: If Translink did due diligence with extensive public consultation like the article says, how come the voters said otherwise? There obviously was a disconnect somewhere.

I asked two TransLink reps on two separate occasions; their response was literally "we know, we've listened, we want SkyTrain too, but we answer to our shareholders." Remember that it's the Province and Mayors' Council pulling the strings.

[flipper316]

https://urbansurrey.com/2018/10/24/l...simple-switch/

[Metro-One]

Seems to me Skytrain to Fleetwood (as phase 1) and an improved rapid bus service along the L Line route would be perfect.

Then phase three would be the completion to Langley (along with the Broadway Line completion to UBC).

This just makes so much sense.

And throw in the Surrey Gondola too of course.

[BCPhil]

Also, don't forget the residents of Surrey have voted against LRT twice.

The transit funding plebiscite of 2015, which would have seen a large stake of the tax increase returned to Surrey to fund the LRT, was defeated by 65% to 35%.

And if you actually look at the breakdown of each individual polling station results for this civic election in Surrey, Tom Gill was soundly defeated across all regions of the city. If my quick scan through the results is correct, he only lead in one station (a school near King George Station and the Hospital) and came close in several in South Surrey. Even Newton voted against him.

And Gill was really the only pro LRT everywhere candidate. Bruce Hayne was planning on keeping the L line LRT after a review and push strong for Skytrain to Langley. Anywhere Tom Gill was close was usually a 3 way race between the 3, so really, LRT to Langley was still being voted against nearly 2:1 (where Gill could have won a 3 way tie).

[SpongeG]

Businesses in Surrey's Newton area won't give up on LRT

Mayor elect Doug McCallum says he'll kill a $1.65 billion LRT project

CBC News · Posted: Oct 25, 2018


LRT proponents in Surrey's Newton neighbourhood argue light rail is crucial to the area's revitalization. (Jesse Johnston/CBC)


Many people who live and work next to the vacant lots and boarded up storefronts near King George Boulevard and 72 Avenue in Surrey's Newton neighbourhood aren't ready to give up on light rail.

All the funding is locked in for a $1.65 billion LRT line that would run in an L-shape from Guildford to Whalley to Newton, finally providing rapid transit to a community that has been underserved for years.

...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...port-1.4878424

[Metro-One]

Haha, they painted an image of a Skytrain!

Dare I say the writing is on the wall??

[s211]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

My question is: If Translink did due diligence with extensive public consultation like the article says, how come the voters said otherwise? There obviously was a disconnect somewhere.

My experience, valid or not, is that such sessions are in a sense programmed to provide the appearance of consultation but the reality is that back-room planning decisions have already been made. "Planners know best", that kind of stuff.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Businesses in Surrey's Newton area won't give up on LRT

Mayor elect Doug McCallum says he'll kill a $1.65 billion LRT project

CBC News · Posted: Oct 25, 2018


LRT proponents in Surrey's Newton neighbourhood argue light rail is crucial to the area's revitalization. (Jesse Johnston/CBC)


Many people who live and work next to the vacant lots and boarded up storefronts near King George Boulevard and 72 Avenue in Surrey's Newton neighbourhood aren't ready to give up on light rail.

All the funding is locked in for a $1.65 billion LRT line that would run in an L-shape from Guildford to Whalley to Newton, finally providing rapid transit to a community that has been underserved for years.

...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...port-1.4878424

What is with this Newton Business ASSociation?? They lost the election but they are saying, "Screw the voters! We know better than you do." Fighting Doug and his team on this will only be bad for them. The people have spoken. Let it go and fight another day.

[jlousa]

My understanding is it's not just the Newton business association that wants LRT but other Surrey business associations as well. They see the plan as building up Surrey as opposed to getting people into Vancouver. If the plan is to build Surrey as a secondary metrocore and to make it easier for people to move around between the Surrey neighborhoods then I can see the point of LRT. Skytrain would certainly make it easier for those in Langley to get to thru Surrey but I don't believe that was the goal.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

What is with this Newton Business ASSociation?? They lost the election but they are saying, "Screw the voters! We know better than you do." Fighting Doug and his team on this will only be bad for them. The people have spoken. Let it go and fight another day.

They're committing political suicide and they don't even know it. They will never get another vote if they continue fighting against the hand that feeds them. However, I will say that I do enjoy the artwork but the business hilariously has egg on their face now.

Regarding this whole phase 1,2,3 mess.... From a regular-degular citizen's point of view, this is a project where I would actually hate to see done phases because it is such a simple extension that we should avoid further inflation and have it done all the way to Langley. Not only that but the extension would be such a vital game changer for Langley and the Metro-Vancouver region.

The only reason that it should be done in phases is due to federal funding. Of course if I had a choice of extending the Millennium line to UBC or the Expo line to Langley, I'm obviously going to vote for extending the Millennium line.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

McCallum's already said Surrey First's light rail network is kaput, so BRT and B-Lines are the logical substitute. Probably'll have to wait for the Langley extension, though.

Does it need to be a subway all the way through? Far as I can tell, the only points of conflict for an e-rail are the Expo Line and Guildford Mall; otherwise, it's smooth sailing like No.3 in Richmond.

No, unless you wanted to save an extra lane on 104th (instead of removing the bike lanes, or removing a car lane). If not, it's probably going to be cut-and-cover on that section; so choose your poison, really.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by flipper316

https://urbansurrey.com/2018/10/24/l...simple-switch/

Wild comments being made on this site. Check it out.