Federal Government & Politics II

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Very little of that is about administering the carbon tax since 90% is simply paid out automatically in rebates. The carbon tax started before COVID. A lot of that CRA growth is Post-Covid with all the COVID programs.

There are some rules with rural bonus, split custody so there is room for questions so they must have a team that takes care of it though it's must smaller than Covid or even GST. The non rebate part is certainly labour intensive though most of that is probably put on utilities etc.

[ConundrumNL]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The best tax is the European VAT. It’s just added into prices and nobody is any the wiser. The populace remains docile and unconcerned.

Easy peasy.

I've never understood why Canada and the US add the tax at the register, and have resisted all attempts to change it. Is it lobbying by the retail industry, so they can show lower prices?

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by ConundrumNL

I've never understood why Canada and the US add the tax at the register, and have resisted all attempts to change it. Is it lobbying by the retail industry, so they can show lower prices?

in the US sales taxes vary significantly across county lines, often by fractions of a percentage (i.e. 6.35% tax in one county, the next county over is 6.70%).

It's challenging to apply it from a retailing perspective in this environment as you need to create unique price labels for each county, never mind advertising a product price across varieties of sales tax environments like that.

So they apply it "post-price" instead.

In the EU, the VAT is universal across each country, so it's much easier to implement 'pre-price'.

Canada could *maybe* get away with 'pre-price' as sales taxes are universal in each individual province, but even then it would still produce problems in some national advertising environments.

I do agree that 'pre-price' is much easier and more consumer friendly.

[niwell]

I appreciate that a lot of local bars near me list drink prices with tax included. When you look at the receipt they're always a weird denomination to hit the rounded dollar amount. This is particularly for the ones that remain cash-only or only pivoted to accepting cards post-COVID. Just makes things easier.

[ConundrumNL]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

in the US sales taxes vary significantly across county lines, often by fractions of a percentage (i.e. 6.35% tax in one county, the next county over is 6.70%).

It's challenging to apply it from a retailing perspective in this environment as you need to create unique price labels for each county, never mind advertising a product price across varieties of sales tax environments like that.

So they apply it "post-price" instead.

In the EU, the VAT is universal across each country, so it's much easier to implement 'pre-price'.

Canada could *maybe* get away with 'pre-price' as sales taxes are universal in each individual province, but even then it would still produce problems in some national advertising environments.

I do agree that 'pre-price' is much easier and more consumer friendly.

Never thought about from that angle, but makes sense.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by ConundrumNL

I've never understood why Canada and the US add the tax at the register, and have resisted all attempts to change it. Is it lobbying by the retail industry, so they can show lower prices?

When the GST was introduced, it replaced a number of taxes (federal) including the manufactuers sales tax which was very much like a European VAT. The difference was the MST and other related taxes were not reduced for exports (so not like a VAT) nor for when manufacttured items were used by other manufacturing (so a tax on tax).

The argument at the time was that the GST would make it easier for Canadian manufacturers & exportors as the GST was a flow through on input costs. Additionally, the PCs were very much of the opinion that unlike the existing taxes which were hidden, the GST would very much be in "your face" and as such it would be difficult for subsequant gov'ts to increase it with public awareness (so called hidden taxes have a habit of being increased at every budget without too much howling).

This was very visably shown when Harper cut the tax to 5% and Trudeau, even with his majority and "charisma" dared not increase it.

Anyway, while a bundled VAT is convenient (as it is part of my daily routine I loved that part of it), the primary reason the GST is not is idealogical. Ask yourself, if it was "hidden" into the cost of items already, do you really believe that the current - or previous - governments wouldn't have increased it "by a bit" every couple of years?

German government to raise VAT on food in restaurants back to 19% next year

[Acajack]

The trend at Roxham Rd (border between QC and NY) has reversed, with twice as many people now crossing from Canada to the US there. The Americans are stepping up their surveillance along our border now.

https://twitter.com/EtienneFG/status...16348043878631

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by shreddog

When the GST was introduced, it replaced a number of taxes (federal) including the manufactuers sales tax which was very much like a European VAT. The difference was the MST and other related taxes were not reduced for exports (so not like a VAT) nor for when manufacttured items were used by other manufacturing (so a tax on tax).

The argument at the time was that the GST would make it easier for Canadian manufacturers & exportors as the GST was a flow through on input costs. Additionally, the PCs were very much of the opinion that unlike the existing taxes which were hidden, the GST would very much be in "your face" and as such it would be difficult for subsequant gov'ts to increase it with public awareness (so called hidden taxes have a habit of being increased at every budget without too much howling).

This was very visably shown when Harper cut the tax to 5% and Trudeau, even with his majority and "charisma" dared not increase it.

Anyway, while a bundled VAT is convenient (as it is part of my daily routine I loved that part of it), the primary reason the GST is not is idealogical. Ask yourself, if it was "hidden" into the cost of items already, do you really believe that the current - or previous - governments wouldn't have increased it "by a bit" every couple of years?

All of this tells me that the best way to impose a carbon price is not a fee and rebate system (which is apparently too honest) but a replacement of the GST with a carbon tax. $90-100/tonne (for reference we're at $65/tonne right now) would generate as much revenue as the GST. And making future governments dependant on carbon tax would make it difficult to reverse.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

All of this tells me that the best way to impose a carbon price is not a fee and rebate system (which is apparently too honest) but a replacement of the GST with a carbon tax. $90-100/tonne (for reference we're at $65/tonne right now) would generate as much revenue as the GST. And making future governments dependant on carbon tax would make it difficult to reverse.

There would be a problem for government revenue if the tax (or other economic choices like adopting EV Trucks because they're cheaper to operate) saw the carbon generated fall significantly. Maybe it would be better to charge the tax, but use the revenue for additional de-carbonisation (beyond the existing expenditure). It could pay for additional charging infrastructure, grants for a more integrated power grid, or support for remote battery storage and power generation for example.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

All of this tells me that the best way to impose a carbon price is not a fee and rebate system (which is apparently too honest) but a replacement of the GST with a carbon tax. $90-100/tonne (for reference we're at $65/tonne right now) would generate as much revenue as the GST. And making future governments dependant on carbon tax would make it difficult to reverse.

I thought I had this uniquely brilliant idea also yesterday. Quebec and BC would whine a bit about Federal imposition but politically it would upturn the whole election as it would make it a choice between GST And Carbon tax.

That makes a lot of winners and losers. The car and homebuilding industry would have to salivate at holding on to these gains for example (Though I'd say you would add a ICE and Real Estate Tax and maybe also Hotel tax). You'd also be able to cut thousands of CRA employees though you'd be screwing over the provinces minus Alberta, BC and QC (non harmonized) who'd have to be back in the business of collecting PST. They could wind it down by Jan 1 2025.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Changing City

There would be a problem for government revenue if the tax (or other economic choices like adopting EV Trucks because they're cheaper to operate) saw the carbon generated fall significantly. Maybe it would be better to charge the tax, but use the revenue for additional de-carbonisation (beyond the existing expenditure). It could pay for additional charging infrastructure, grants for a more integrated power grid, or support for remote battery storage and power generation for example.

You're thinking about what is good for the environment. We know that doesn't work anymore. You have to think about what works politically. And that is trapping future governments by making them dependent on carbon tax revenue. Of course, as emissions decline, the carbon tax would have to keep going up to make up revenue, creating a virtuous cycle. At some point, some future government might have to reimpose a sales tax. But that's a future government problem.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

In the EU, the VAT is universal across each country, so it's much easier to implement 'pre-price'.

EU countries have multiple VAT rates. Italy has 4 for example 4%, 5%, 10% and 22%.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The trend at Roxham Rd (border between QC and NY) has reversed, with twice as many people now crossing from Canada to the US there. The Americans are stepping up their surveillance along our border now.

https://twitter.com/EtienneFG/status...16348043878631

How many are people who made claims to get into Canada and want to go to the USA?

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by whatnext

How many are people who made claims to get into Canada and want to go to the USA?

Probably 100%.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Of course, in our society we don't generally factor in lifestyle habits when we determine who is deserving of medical care.

At least not yet.

Most of the time. We don't give alcoholics liver transplants.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The BC NDP will be raising carbon taxes up April 1 and they'll wear it.

They are going to wear it right into a big victory in a late 2024 election.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

They are going to wear it right into a big victory in a late 2024 election.

Again, only because the opposition is in disarray.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Again, only because the opposition is in disarray.

The carbon tax has existed in BC since 2008. It has never been that controversial.

It's only recently that the PP bleating rage farming has infected some BC voters.

[casper]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The carbon tax has existed in BC since 2008. It has never been that controversial.

It's only recently that the PP bleating rage farming has infected some BC voters.

I would hope BC votes are not going to fall for PP smoke and mirrors. I fear I may be disappointed.

The next program the Liberals look to be planning for is a national school lunch program. All the better. Lets see PP take food off kids plates.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The carbon tax has existed in BC since 2008. It has never been that controversial.

It's only recently that the PP bleating rage farming has infected some BC voters.

Ahem...

NDP promises to axe B.C. carbon tax
The Canadian Press
Published Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:29AM PDT
Carole James says she'll dump B.C.'s carbon gas tax if her New Democrats are elected to government next May.

She told delegates at the Union of B.C. Municipalities convention in Penticton the gas tax is not fair and doesn't work.

James says while she'll axe the tax, the NDP will keep the income tax cuts that came with it because British Columbians deserve a break.

She congratulated convention delegates for criticizing the tax, and mocked Premier Gordon Campbell's attempt to soothe municipalities with a carbon tax rebate, calling it "lipstick on a pig".

Campbell told the convention yesterday the government will refund to cities and towns 100 per cent of the carbon tax that they pay so they won't have to curtail any services......

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/ndp-promises-t...n-tax-1.328022



And please, don't lead with "that's why they weren't elected then". There were a host of other issues. And it would do well to remember that just a scant two years later yet another tax heaped on the BC public forced the slimy Gordon Campbell to resign:

B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell resigns
Author of the article:Kenyon Wallace
Published Nov 03, 2010

Facing low public approval ratings amid criticism from inside his party and out, British Columbia Premier Gordon Campbell resigned Wednesday, saying his decision was in the “best interests” of the province.

The 62-year-old leader of the provincial Liberals has seen his popularity take a pummelling in recent months as public outrage over his decision to introduce the controversial harmonized sales tax reached unprecedented levels....

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...nation-rumours