Winnipeg | Downtown | True North Square | U/C

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by headhorse

adults making masturbation jokes is some dark shit.

No, it's adolescent, maybe even infantile, but I wouldn't say "dark". I would suggest "dark" is getting one's head into a space where an entire category of people, whether they be "the rich", "the poor", "any ethnic group or race" or whatever label is handy, is considered evil.

There is always evidence of people with wealth and power hurting and exploiting others, so please don't respond by pointing out how terrible this rich person or that rich person has proven to be.

IMO-In matters of civic improvement for Winnipeg, I personally am happy to see contributions by local successful people towards growing the city, and I don't resent the fact that they are also personally gaining for their efforts.

Also IMO-masturbation jokes can be quite funny if they are timed right....and dmacc timed their comment just right.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

2. The idea that they owe the city, or you, whatever you feel like is hysterical and reeks of entitlement.

Actually, they asked for and accepted tax payer money to assist with the development of their project so they do actually owe citizens something in return and it is not entitlement on the public's part. Further, all developments are required to meet community standards.

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Centre point has been a successful project, and Ellice isn't yet a desirable economic corridor. You can't demand someone to take a huge risk and expect joyful compliance.

Again you seem to conveniently overlook the facts here. The City of Winnipeg sold their Winnipeg Square parkade and set aside money for new parking projects in the downtown and Exchange areas. They also set a standard that newly constructed, multi level parking structures would have space other than parking on the ground level. Both these happened before the CentrePoint development went to the construction stage.

CentrePoint then requested, and later received, money from that parking fund. The initial design for the Ellice parkade included the promised main floor commercial units which enabled them to qualify for the funding. It wasn't until the build cost came back for those main floor commercial units and the proposed residential tower on top of the parking structure that the design was changed to what was built.

To further add insult to the project, the same location was a active street level block before the development took control on the property and evicted the current tenants, some of which actually relocated to other places downtown.

There is really nothing to be praised about the final structure as built.

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Lol, not this bullshit again.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by pspeid

No, it's adolescent, maybe even infantile, but I wouldn't say "dark". I would suggest "dark" is getting one's head into a space where an entire category of people, whether they be "the rich", "the poor", "any ethnic group or race" or whatever label is handy, is considered evil.

There is always evidence of people with wealth and power hurting and exploiting others, so please don't respond by pointing out how terrible this rich person or that rich person has proven to be.

IMO-In matters of civic improvement for Winnipeg, I personally am happy to see contributions by local successful people towards growing the city, and I don't resent the fact that they are also personally gaining for their efforts.

Also IMO-masturbation jokes can be quite funny if they are timed right....and dmacc timed their comment just right.

Cue the masturbation thread.

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Actually, they asked for and accepted tax payer money to assist with the development of their project so they do actually owe citizens something in return and it is not entitlement on the public's part. Further, all developments are required to meet community standards.



Again you seem to conveniently overlook the facts here. The City of Winnipeg sold their Winnipeg Square parkade and set aside money for new parking projects in the downtown and Exchange areas. They also set a standard that newly constructed, multi level parking structures would have space other than parking on the ground level. Both these happened before the CentrePoint development went to the construction stage.

CentrePoint then requested, and later received, money from that parking fund. The initial design for the Ellice parkade included the promised main floor commercial units which enabled them to qualify for the funding. It wasn't until the build cost came back for those main floor commercial units and the proposed residential tower on top of the parking structure that the design was changed to what was built.

To further add insult to the project, the same location was a active street level block before the development took control on the property and evicted the current tenants, some of which actually relocated to other places downtown.

There is really nothing to be praised about the final structure as built.

Pot, meet kettle.

Thanks for this great synopsis. We've had this very conversation before, but it seems that some folks have a short memory.

I don't think it's wrong to expect that projects like this, funded with public money, live up to their promises and directly contribute to a more livable urban environment.
Curiously, when Centrepoint reneged on their promise to build a parkade with ground floor retail, they did not volunteer to give back the public money. Were they asked to return to the money by the city? I doubt it. Seems like a classic bait and switch to me.

I guess they did put in some cool LED lights instead.

RIP Wagonwheel.

[Wpg_Guy]

Next

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

I guess they did put in some cool LED lights instead.

And the LED lights don't seem to work anymore. For the last few months when I get off work at 01:000 they are not on. Before that only some of the strips were working at night.

[pspeid]

^^ Using public money to help fund private projects is always going to have it's share of proponents and opponents. I don't think Winnipeg is too different from other "slow growth" cities in needing a certain degree of public incentive to get big projects off the ground.

IMO-What we always seem to struggle with is the suspicion that the city (or it's elected representatives) especially ignorant and gullible when dealing with "those crooked developers". Unfortunately, we often seem to group all public projects in this category, equating legitimate problem sites like the new police station project, with projects that have some relatively small changes during their construction. Just part of the old "what's wrong with us" handwringing we often seem to do.

Okay, that's my opinion....let the outrage begin!

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Actually, they asked for and accepted tax payer money to assist with the development of their project so they do actually owe citizens something in return and it is not entitlement on the public's part. Further, all developments are required to meet community standards.



Again you seem to conveniently overlook the facts here. The City of Winnipeg sold their Winnipeg Square parkade and set aside money for new parking projects in the downtown and Exchange areas. They also set a standard that newly constructed, multi level parking structures would have space other than parking on the ground level. Both these happened before the CentrePoint development went to the construction stage.

CentrePoint then requested, and later received, money from that parking fund. The initial design for the Ellice parkade included the promised main floor commercial units which enabled them to qualify for the funding. It wasn't until the build cost came back for those main floor commercial units and the proposed residential tower on top of the parking structure that the design was changed to what was built.

To further add insult to the project, the same location was a active street level block before the development took control on the property and evicted the current tenants, some of which actually relocated to other places downtown.

There is really nothing to be praised about the final structure as built.



Pot, meet kettle.

Excellent post!

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by pspeid

^^ Using public money to help fund private projects is always going to have it's share of proponents and opponents. I don't think Winnipeg is too different from other "slow growth" cities in needing a certain degree of public incentive to get big projects off the ground.......

Winnipeg has not been a slow growth city for quite some time. In the past 5 years its population growth rate has been outpacing metro Vancouver and is virtually tied with Calgary. Every city is involved in the corporate welfare game now that profits are privatized and losses are subsidized.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by headhorse

I am? if these projects fail/winnipeg's economy fails, I'm stuck here and don't have huge amounts of capital to move away or insulate myself like wealthy people can.

Is this one of those thinly veiled typical "if you dont do what I want, I'm leaving" kind of threats? The city may be better off in the long term with less people having your mentality.

I say throw caution to the wind, take the risk and move.

[Spocket]

You're absolutely right but remember, you're talking to somebody who thinks that communism is a good idea.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Is this one of those thinly veiled typical "if you dont do what I want, I'm leaving" kind of threats? The city may be better off in the long term with less people having your mentality.

I say throw caution to the wind, take the risk and move.

I don't like to take a "love it or leave it" stance (and I'm not accusing Pinus of this, so please don't shout at me...I'm sensitive!) , as constructive criticism is always necessary in any public conversation. But if one genuinely hates where they are, they need to seriously consider finding some place that is less toxic for them.

I say this as someone who, out of necessity, spent a few years living in a place I really hated. It wasn't necessarily the fault of the people who lived there, the place (to stay unnamed) just didn't have any of the the economic, cultural or physical advantages I learned to love in Winnipeg. Getting out of there was the best thing I ever did for my soul, if you will.

If you don't like something about where you are, try to change it. If you can't change it, find someplace that will satisfy you. If you feel you can't afford it now, at least start the process and research the type of place you would like to be. Spending very day resenting the fact that Winnipeg continues to exist as it does can't help anyone.

[Riverman]

^ Great post!

[buzzg]

Cory's post was fantastic – hit it on the head. To add even more insult – not only did the initial design have main floor retail, but it had a beautiful design that was worked on with artists. This one has... some yellow 2x4s on 20% of the main floor, and a big P. Neat.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Ando

Cue the masturbation thread.

So......where is this masturbation thread?????

[esquire]

Does anyone know if the bus stop currently at Graham and Donald will be moving back to Graham and Hargrave once the sidewalk along Graham just north of TNS is finished?

[buzzg]

The only one at Graham and Donald is the WB one, and that's always been there. Do you mean the EB one that's just on the other side of Hargrave? If so, I'd imagine yes considering they didn't put any stop amenities there and the sign is just a standard, temporary one. It also looks like there's busses stopped behind 225 Carlton in the renders.

Site says move-in Summer 2019, and my friend just got hired to help with residential leasing, so that info has gotta be coming any time now.

[esquire]

It will be interesting to see if that happens. Sometimes these temporary arrangements have a way of becoming permanent, and we would then find ourselves in a situation with the absurdity of permanent bus stops probably not even 100m apart.

Personally I think Graham could stand to lose one bus stop in each direction (WB and EB).

[CoryB]

The EB stop on Graham was at Donald in the past. Not sure why it was moved away from there to begin with.

[bomberjet]

Yeah there's too many stops. They should cut it down to 2 locations each way and put in paid zone boarding. It can take quite a while to load with everyone tapping. I also don't see that many buses with the upgraded fare boxes. The ones that tap instantly. Like maybe 2 times.