Rapid Transit

[omro]

Originally Posted by DC83

LESS Cars = good. No cars = no passer-by exposure.

Aren't the people riding the LRT going to look out the windows then?

[omro]

As for North/South - would anyone be upset if one narrow road in the downtown stretch became dedicated solely to LRT?

[DC83]

Originally Posted by omro

Aren't the people riding the LRT going to look out the windows then?

I sure hope so!

But besides City of Hamilton residents, one must think of travelers/roadtrippers/tourists in general.

When I'm in a new City, I don't usually feel comfortable enough parking, jumping onto Public Transit and riding thru. Most visitors want to see what the City has to offer in their own comforts. King St is the 'Yonge St' of Hamilton... it's where most Ped activity goes on Downtown. To completely block King St from ANY cars would be silly... although pedestrianizing Gore Park is still a good idea.

And if they are seperate, they would obviously come together at The Delta... but where in the West would they come back together?

[SteelTown]

We don't want to do what Buffalo did. They are now starting to bring cars back to Main St.

[omro]

Originally Posted by DC83

But besides City of Hamilton residents, one must think of travelers/roadtrippers/tourists in general.

Well... when I've been on my travels... I've mainly walked through the cities I've stayed in - even when I've been with a person who could drive - simply because hiring a car and driving around a city you don't know isn't either cheap or that fun, you spend all your time driving and not concentrating on the surroundings.

Whether it's just been me or a group, we've enjoyed the city more either on foot or using its public transit.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by ryan_mcgreal

They have $11 billion already committed by the provincial government. Metrolinx is going to go ahead and fund as many projects as they can with the money they already have, and work in parallel to secure additional funding once that runs out.

OK, I'm not going to fight on this. They have some of the money, but they still don't have the money for the whole enchilada......... You say that above.

I understand they have Hamilton on a priority list, but no firm dollar committment to Hamilton because there is no commitment to LRT or BRT. ust a committment to put Hamilton in the first 15.

Now back to my original point, if LRT means eliminating the conversion of King & Main Streets to 2 way, I'd prefer BRT and 2 way streets.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I think it will be fine to have both sides with parking, 1 traffic lane and 1 LRT lane in that stretch of King. Portland has several downtown streets with only 1 lane for car traffic.

That will leave one side of the street with orphaned parking spaces. Assuming the LRT has it's own segregated lane, cars wouldn't be able to get the parking spots.

Possible solutions, 1. Remove the traffic calming 'bumps' on one side and run a lane, car or LRT. 2. Widen the sidewalk into the parking spaces on the orphaned side of the street.

[omro]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

Now back to my original point, if LRT means eliminating the conversion of King & Main Streets to 2 way, I'd prefer BRT and 2 way streets.

What about 2way on one of those streets and LRT on the other?

[DC83]

^^ Buffalo's Main St is terrible!! King St would most likely have the same problems if it were shut to vehicular traffic.

Here's my updated version of my LRT system:
Hamilton LRT
I've kept the B-Line on Main. Click on anything (stops, the line itself) if you want info in it.

dream dream dreammmm

EDIT: @ FairHamilton
B-Line is guaranteed to be built, 100%! The money IS in place!!!
A-Line and "C-Line" don't have any financial committments, but B-Line does and WILL be built.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

That will leave one side of the street with orphaned parking spaces. Assuming the LRT has it's own segregated lane, cars wouldn't be able to get the parking spots.

Possible solutions, 1. Remove the traffic calming 'bumps' on one side and run a lane, car or LRT. 2. Widen the sidewalk into the parking spaces on the orphaned side of the street.

you need to visit a city with LRT. it's accepted to pull across the tracks to park in curbside parking.
One time in Portland, I stopped for about 30 seconds too long on the tracks and these 'transit cops' came out of the woodwork and told me to move it or get towed.

I'd prefer both LRT's on Main and have Main/King go two-way.
Mark my words, no way they remove street parking in the IV. there's no need, regardless of whether it goes two-way or not. This city needs to wrap their heads around the fact that LRT will lure many people out of their cars. We don't need to keep the same car capacity, especially with streets like Cannon/Wilson/Hunter/Charlton/Herkimer/York nearby to pick up the slack. I feel stupid listing off so many street names - this city is such an embarassment in that regard. We don't need all these lanes!!!

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by DC83

^^ Buffalo's Main St is terrible!! King St would most likely have the same problems if it were shut to vehicular traffic.

Here's my updated version of my LRT system:
Hamilton LRT
I've kept the B-Line on Main. Click on anything (stops, the line itself) if you want info in it.

dream dream dreammmm

EDIT: @ FairHamilton
B-Line is guaranteed to be built, 100%! The money IS in place!!!
A-Line and "C-Line" don't have any financial committments, but B-Line does and WILL be built.

I don't agree re: Buffalo's Main St. Buffalo is crazy car dependant with little high density residential downtown. Hamilton's King St could probably handle being closed to cars in the future once LRT is booming and the Gore is a fabulous pedestrian zone.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

you need to visit a city with LRT. it's accepted to pull across the tracks to park in curbside parking.
One time in Portland, I stopped for about 30 seconds too long on the tracks and these 'transit cops' came out of the woodwork and told me to move it or get towed.

Yeah, a recipe for disaster in Hamilton. People can hardly pull in and out when dealing with cars, let alone throwing a fast moving rail vehicle at them. Have you ever been to Toronto where a vehicle is blocking integrated lane (parked or otherwise)? All the ticketing in the world will not move the car out of the way. Just the other week I counted 10 streetcars lined in a row because of truck parked too far from the curb on King Street.

Either it's segregated a la Toronto Spadina line, or integrated like Toronto's King, Queen and others. IMO, a hybrid will not work.

[DC83]

^^ mix-traffic is the only option for Main between The Delta & Queenston Traffic Circle for the B-Line. Everywhere else could be/should be dedicated LRT lanes (given it's on Main). However, it wouldn't slow down the train that much as it's not THAT busy in that area. It would probably move as quick as the current B-Line Bus does now... which is pretty quick still.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by omro

As for North/South - would anyone be upset if one narrow road in the downtown stretch became dedicated solely to LRT?

That's what I was thinking, omro. Make Hughson dedicated to LRT only.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by DC83

^^ mix-traffic is the only option for Main between The Delta & Queenston Traffic Circle for the B-Line. Everywhere else could be/should be dedicated LRT lanes (given it's on Main). However, it wouldn't slow down the train that much as it's not THAT busy in that area. It would probably move as quick as the current B-Line Bus does now... which is pretty quick still.

How about this treatment for LRT on Main between the Delta and the Queenston roundabout:

At the Delta, divert dedicated eastbound LRT onto King Street. Maintain a lane of dedicated LRT east on King until you reach the hydro easement just west of Cochraine. Have the LRT run north down the easement then rejoin Queenston Road eastbound to Eastgate, all in a dedicated LRT lane. This can allow for one dedicated westbound LRT line along the entire stretch of Main between the roundabout and the Delta.

[flar]

Main St. in Buffalo is dead, and I believe King would end up the same if we pedestrianized it. There is virtually no retail on Buffalo's main downtown shopping street and the streetlife is pretty weak too, lots of bums. If we closed King St. in downtown Hamilton in its current state, there would still be streetlife, but it would be the same bunch of scraggly characters that hang around in Gore Park and on the corner by Right House. Except it would be worse because there would be fewer eyes on the street. That's why I was against Eisenberger's plan to close both legs of King around Gore Park. Those people "own" downtown, it's theirs, and until that changes, not even LRT is going to help.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

That's what I was thinking, omro. Make Hughson dedicated to LRT only.

That's a great idea, and I've actually made that the route for part of the lower A-Line, check out my system map!

Originally Posted by markbarbera

How about this treatment for LRT on Main between the Delta and the Queenston roundabout:

At the Delta, divert dedicated eastbound LRT onto King Street. Maintain a lane of dedicated LRT east on King until you reach the hydro easement just west of Cochraine. Have the LRT run north down the easement then rejoin Queenston Road eastbound to Eastgate, all in a dedicated LRT lane. This can allow for one dedicated westbound LRT line along the entire stretch of Main between the roundabout and the Delta.

I also thought of this. But I feel The Delta needs the economic spinoffs more than Rosedale does. Plus Main St in this stretch is WAY more dense than King St Rosedale. AND there's a major High School that would be serviced by this LRT. So keeping it on Main is the only thing that makes sense around here.

[omro]

Originally Posted by flar

Main St. in Buffalo is dead, and I believe King would end up the same if we pedestrianized it. There is virtually no retail on Buffalo's main downtown shopping street and the streetlife is pretty weak too, lots of bums. If we closed King St. in downtown Hamilton in its current state, there would still be streetlife, but it would be the same bunch of scraggly characters that hang around in Gore Park and on the corner by Right House. Except it would be worse because there would be fewer eyes on the street. That's why I was against Eisenberger's plan to close both legs of King around Gore Park. Those people "own" downtown, it's theirs, and until that changes, not even LRT is going to help.

Funny how different it is here, most of our town centres and city centres have large pedestrianised areas and far from killing them off, they encourage people to walk around downtown and enjoy the shops and peaceful, people friendly streetfronts.

[DC83]

^^ there's no one downtown Buffalo, Omro. B/c there is nothing besides businesses down there.

So Downtown Buffalo may look packed between 9-5, Mon-Fri... but weekends are a joke. I went to an event right at Niagara Square (the Gore Park of Buffalo) and there was one person in the Square. And he was homeless.

But that's for another thread. Buffalo's situation is way different from Hamilton's. We dont' have the mass suburban exodus they suffer through. So when you build an LRT line that doesn't connect Downtown to the Suburbs, in a City like Buffalo, it's not going to be used.

This is why most LRT's in US cities work... b/c they connect to suburbs.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by DC83

I also thought of this. But I feel The Delta needs the economic spinoffs more than Rosedale does. Plus Main St in this stretch is WAY more dense than King St Rosedale. AND there's a major High School that would be serviced by this LRT. So keeping it on Main is the only thing that makes sense around here.

I understand your concern, but there would be negligable adjustments to actual stops along the rotue under this scenario. The stop by the Delta wouldn't be impacted greatly. I imagine it being moved slightly west and making the actual Delta Parkette the boarding area for the LRT. Otherwise, we could stick with the stop at Ottawa street seeing that King and Main are a very short walking distance apart at Ottawa.

The only signifcantly displaced stop on the B-Line would be the eastbound stop at Main and Kenilworth. Westbound would still be there, so there really is no significant change in traffic patterns. As far as Delta High goes, the curerent B-Line isn't designed to service it directly anyway. Catchment for high schools can easily be handled by local bus routes such as 1 King and 5 Delaware.