[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[sdm]

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Letters/1171877.html

[DigitalNinja]

Those made me sick. I read them in the saturday paper, I wanted to barf all over them. I really like the one by the girl complaining about the double hight.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

Those made me sick. I read them in the saturday paper, I wanted to barf all over them. I really like the one by the girl complaining about the double hight.

Well as much as is negative, again she has a point.

HRM by design rules were broken for this development. For most developments if there is a public part to a development the bonus height is significantly less then what was allowed here.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by sdm

Well as much as is negative, again she has a point.

HRM by design rules were broken for this development. For most developments if there is a public part to a development the bonus height is significantly less then what was allowed here.

It was grandfathered in before HRM by Design was passed...I wouldn't consider it to be breaking the HRM by Design rules.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

It was grandfathered in before HRM by Design was passed...I wouldn't consider it to be breaking the HRM by Design rules.

Haliguy that may seem the case in your mind, but the site going through all of HRM by Design public programs and even council clearly showed a maximum height of 8 stories. Once it was determined the site was to be used for the trade centre it then was changed to allow the additional height.

Therefore it wasn't grandfathered, it was altered, and might i add without public input.

I guess the 'correct' thing would be to say that HRM by design rules were altered to allow this to exceed their plan.

[fenwick16]

This is why I dislike these height restrictions. This is a 18 storey tower and it is being treated like a super tall skyscraper. Why should we care if it is 18 storeys high? This is a skyscraper forum. This is what we have given by accepting HRMbyDesign. We must feel bad about having a 18 storey tower.

[fenwick16]

All my life I have watched developments get stopped based on ultra-conservative obstructionism. This has seriously hurt Halifax.

[fenwick16]

I really like the Halifax skyline especially at night viewed from the Halifax to Dartmouth ferry. I hope that this HRMbyDesign is broken during the construction of this convention centre and I hope that HRMbyDesign regulations will be broken many more times in my lifetime; because I like tall buildings.

[DigitalNinja]

Tall buildings will be built elsewhere Fenwick. Halifax downtown isn't really the optimal place for tall buildings to begin with. It's on a hill, with a national historic site behind them, they are facing a harbour.
HRM will get tall buildings eventually, they will just be build somewhere else, about 20 stories will be the norm for downtown halifax.
If you want an example of how a city turns out with height restrictions, look at Tokyo, they weren't allowed to build high because of earthquakes, and now it's just 20-30 story buildings as far as you can see. With a few taller ones now. But it doesn't look to bad.
What I have a problem with is protecting crap. They are trying to protect crap buildings that no one besides a small minority care about. It's not cool.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

Tall buildings will be built elsewhere Fenwick. Halifax downtown isn't really the optimal place for tall buildings to begin with. It's on a hill, with a national historic site behind them, they are facing a harbour.
HRM will get tall buildings eventually, they will just be build somewhere else, about 20 stories will be the norm for downtown halifax.
If you want an example of how a city turns out with height restrictions, look at Tokyo, they weren't allowed to build high because of earthquakes, and now it's just 20-30 story buildings as far as you can see. With a few taller ones now. But it doesn't look to bad.
What I have a problem with is protecting crap. They are trying to protect crap buildings that no one besides a small minority care about. It's not cool.

This a good point DigitalNinja. Maybe the HRMbyDesign won't be so bad. I have passed through the Tokyo Narita airport a couple of times (24 - 26 years ago) but didn't get downtown. I spent more time (only a few days) in Nagoya: it also has quite a few low to mid rise buildings and it was an impressive city (that was 24 - 26 years ago when they were building an elevated highway). I also spent several months in Toyama city which is in central Japan on the western coast; this is a beautiful city on the ocean and surrounded by mountains. The weather is similar to the weather in Vancouver in terms of temperature. They get snow during the winter but it doesn't get very cold (at the most it might be a few degrees below zero Celsius).

[Jstaleness]

I have been following this conversation closely. Halifax downtown that we know today will probably never see a building over 25 stories, although I hope I'm wrong. I do hope to see all the gaps that exist today filled in and if its 13 or 23 floors that doesn't really matter to me. Just fill the holes. An 18 storey building shouldn't be causing a stir if buildings of that size already exist in the area, and they do. Now as for 25+ stories. Where can they go? I have heard everyone mention the cogswell area. Good for some but very small land area so only a hand full will ever go there. I hope that Dartmouth allows a bunch and one day. Imagine a faster passenger ferry traveling between the 2 cities. I love today's ferries but sometimes I wonder if the Harbour Hopper is faster. We'll keep those old ferries for tourists. I guess the last thing is a question? What about behind Citidel Hill? Is the area of Cunard/Robie or Quinpool zoned for just residential or could highrise business towers be built there too?

[fenwick16]

Based on watching the Halifax news for the past few decades, I would think that the only place that you will see 25 plus storey towers in the future will be Dartmouth (An exception is the 22 storey IP tower which is equivalent to a 30 -32 storey residential tower). Having skyscrapers in Dartmouth wouldn't be bad except that Dartmouth also might decide to ban skyscrapers (I think of skyscrapers as 90 m plus).

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by Jstaleness

Imagine a faster passenger ferry traveling between the 2 cities. I love today's ferries but sometimes I wonder if the Harbour Hopper is faster. We'll keep those old ferries for tourists.

Honestly, the ferry crossing between Dartmouth and Halifax is 7-8 minutes. I really doubt there is any purpose served by putting a faster boat on the route. I guess they could increase the frequency of the run if needed, but at rush hour the frequency with 2 boats is already every 15 minutes. And if they really needed to, they could run 4 ferries of similar speed on a load and go basis every 7 1/2 minutes. Not much of a problem.

[DigitalNinja]

Agreed, and on topic, they had an ex WTCC president on news 95.7 this morning with Andrew Crystal, and they were promoting the trade centers and how much revenue a trade center brings to Halifax.

[Takeo]

Originally Posted by sdm

Haliguy that may seem the case in your mind, but the site going through all of HRM by Design public programs and even council clearly showed a maximum height of 8 stories. Once it was determined the site was to be used for the trade centre it then was changed to allow the additional height.

Therefore it wasn't grandfathered, it was altered, and might i add without public input.

I guess the 'correct' thing would be to say that HRM by design rules were altered to allow this to exceed their plan.

Does it matter?

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Takeo

Does it matter?

It sets a tone, and undermines HRM by Design in my opinion. The rules have been bent to allow one development to proceed. Why then can't the rules be bent to allow other development that may have a public part to exceed the height requirements?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by sdm

It sets a tone, and undermines HRM by Design in my opinion. The rules have been bent to allow one development to proceed. Why then can't the rules be bent to allow other development that may have a public part to exceed the height requirements?

Rules are made to be broken.......rigid dogmatism is evil.

Seriously, I think that a truly exceptional project should be judged on it's merits rather than whether or not it violates some obscure rule or not.

Yes, "HRM by design" is an important document but it should be considered as a set of guidelines rather than being on the same level as the criminal code of Canada. There always may be projects that come along which could be of such exquisite value to the downtown that the guidelines should be set aside.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Rules are made to be broken.......rigid dogmatism is evil.

Seriously, I think that a truly exceptional project should be judged on it's merits rather than whether or not it violates some obscure rule or not.

Yes, "HRM by design" is an important document but it should be considered as a set of guidelines rather than being on the same level as the criminal code of Canada. There always may be projects that come along which could be of such exquisite value to the downtown that the guidelines should be set aside.

Agreed, however we spent the past 3 decades with "rules" and it didn't get us very far. HRM by design was to solve this, but this only shows it hasn't changed.

My personal opinion however that all developments are of exquisite value to the downtown.

[Jonovision]

Originally Posted by sdm

My personal opinion however that all developments are of exquisite value to the downtown.

I realize this is a personal opinion, but I would not call the Marriott on Sackville to be an exquisite value to the downtown. or Metro Park for that matter.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Rules are made to be broken.......rigid dogmatism is evil.

Seriously, I think that a truly exceptional project should be judged on it's merits rather than whether or not it violates some obscure rule or not.

Yes, "HRM by design" is an important document but it should be considered as a set of guidelines rather than being on the same level as the criminal code of Canada. There always may be projects that come along which could be of such exquisite value to the downtown that the guidelines should be set aside.

Exactly... especially because council was very involved and not everybody on there has the education/training to understand the implications of limiting every development to these rules. The ultimate result of following the letter of the law is the opportunity cost of economic activty generated by not only the design and development process, but the future economic spinoffs of relatively tall and dense developments.

These groups already stopped the midtown development the first round, now they want to quash a development that will improve the HRM/province's ability to court firms that can bring value to downtown (both tourists" via larger scale conferences and the hotel or through investment attraction.

Halifax needs this development. I'm moving if this doesn't get built.

I wait patiently for IP.