Calgary Roads

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

The Bow Trail "rebuild" in the stretch you reference was done long before the West LRT. No connection. 17th Ave. wasn't rebuilt. It was shifted in places b/c of the LRT work. What benefit did that bring?

No it wasn’t. Bow trail was rebuilt at the same time to allow for the tracks to be put in the middle. The road was widened to three lanes each way on that stretch. Work was started around 2010 and finished 2014. I’m quite familiar with the timelines of it since I worked on all fazes of the construction.
17th ave was widened and turn bays installed from 33rd to Sarcee. The section from Sarcee to 69Th was realigned & expanded. Most of the old road there was where the tracks are now.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Glenmore also needs to be fully freewayized. How many more interchanges are needed on the east side before that's done? It couldn't be that many.

Barlow, 52nd St, 68Th ( if it ever gets built as planned) and the interchange at Stoney would need to be built to Ultimate to handle more traffic. The EB/NB left turn is already a complete failure

[milomilo]

Last year in Calgary a few interchanges opened:

TCH/Bowfort Road - $71.7 million
MacLeod/162nd $78 million
Glenmore/Ogden - $90 million

Plus a load of smaller ones. Maybe that was just a big dollar year, but the argument that Calgary isn't spending money on roads is complete horse shit.

[You Need A Thneed]

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation...es-Feb2018.pdf

McKnight 52nd Street intersection upgrades as part of the north crosstown BRT.

Lanes going north or south goes from 5 to 8 through the intersection.

[ClaytonA]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Speaking of facts where are you getting yours from? $1.6 billion for the Crowchild Trail/Bow Trail bridge widening and ramp movement project? You should drive by that project or look it up on the City's website. The cost is $87 million which is about 5% of the figure you used and actually includes other work.

...

http://majorprojects.alberta.ca/#list/ I'm not as up on Calgary road projects. The Bow River Bridge is the main bottle neck if that's phase 1.

Fully agree with you the Green Line LRT should be grade separated to north of McKnight where the right-of-way gets wider (if that's far enough). Heck the city should be going for automated trains like the REM and Skytrain. The frequency at all hours possible when you don't have to pay for drivers is worth the extra capital expense over the infrastructure's lifetime. Others in the community want a streetcar/tram feel. Same as Vancouver.

Dont let the perfect be the enemy of the good - keep supporting the project.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation...es-Feb2018.pdf

McKnight 52nd Street intersection upgrades as part of the north crosstown BRT.

Lanes going north or south goes from 5 to 8 through the intersection.

What a waste of money. If they're rebuilding the intersection why are they just putting in queue jump lanes? They should at least be provisioning for proper bus lanes on 52nd if not a full interchange.

It's funny how the NIMBYs in the SW get a proper BRT line with dedicated lanes and overpasses yet bitch and moan about it, but in the NE where they would actually be grateful for a line like that, they only get a half assed line with a few fancy shelters and queue jumps.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by milomilo

What a waste of money. If they're rebuilding the intersection why are they just putting in queue jump lanes? They should at least be provisioning for proper bus lanes on 52nd if not a full interchange.

It's funny how the NIMBYs in the SW get a proper BRT line with dedicated lanes and overpasses yet bitch and moan about it, but in the NE where they would actually be grateful for a line like that, they only get a half assed line with a few fancy shelters and queue jumps.

Why don't you ask them? I'm sure the city looked at it as an option.

My guess? It has to do with how the queues on 52nd differ from the queues on Glenmore and 14th Street.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Why don't you ask them? I'm sure the city looked at it as an option.

My guess? It has to do with how the queues on 52nd differ from the queues on Glenmore and 14th Street.

I believe it is going to be a BRT route. PCL has been installing proper bus stops up 52st for the past year. It’s not dedicated lanes as per 14st/SW but still a BRT

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by msmariner

I believe it is going to be a BRT route. PCL has been installing proper bus stops up 52st for the past year. It’s not dedicated lanes as per 14st/SW but still a BRT

I'm not talking about whether or not it's a BRT route. I'm referring to the question about why the SW gets dedicated bus lanes but not here on 52nd street. Obviously BRTs can run fine in most cases on the roads with little helpers like queue jumps, but I'm guessing they did the math and figured out dedicated bus lanes weren't required here.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I'm not talking about whether or not it's a BRT route. I'm referring to the question about why the SW gets dedicated bus lanes but not here on 52nd street. Obviously BRTs can run fine in most cases on the roads with little helpers like queue jumps, but I'm guessing they did the math and figured out dedicated bus lanes weren't required here.

Firstly, this is BRT in name only. The only thing that will come close to BRT in this city is the SW portion of the SWBRT. What we will have on the North Crosstown is just a slightly fancier express bus that will still be painfully slow, as any bus in mixed traffic inevitably is.

I would cynically say you are placing too much faith in the city basing the put in proper infrastructure in the SW and not the NE purely on data rather than some political reason. I find it very hard to believe that Mercedes man in the SW is more likely to take transit than the typically lower income person in the NE.

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Firstly, this is BRT in name only. The only thing that will come close to BRT in this city is the SW portion of the SWBRT. What we will have on the North Crosstown is just a slightly fancier express bus that will still be painfully slow, as any bus in mixed traffic inevitably is.

I would cynically say you are placing too much faith in the city basing the put in proper infrastructure in the SW and not the NE purely on data rather than some political reason. I find it very hard to believe that Mercedes man in the SW is more likely to take transit than the typically lower income person in the NE.

What about 17th ave SE?

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

What about 17th ave SE?

Yes, fair enough I would say that would qualify, although just as with the SWBRT, it's still only partial as the rest of the journey has to be made in mixed traffic. It's a good start though and I hope they can figure out a way to get it into downtown properly.

17th Ave offers another great comparison to the SWBRT - it's been a gongshow of construction for almost a year now yet you barely hear a peep from the locals in complaint, probably because they have better things to do and appreciate the investment. Compare that to the SW, where construction hasn't even started yet and you have ready2engage and all the other NIMBYs.

IMO, we should scrap the SWBRT and any other infrastructure in the far SW for the next 20 years until the local baby boomer NIMBYs die off, and spend that money on the rest of the city. Anyone SW of 14th and Glenmore does not deserve any taxpayer money after their actions over the last few years.

[DoubleK]

I drive 17th Ave SE everyday.

My view for the lack of communication and is they have done a fantastic job of doing the construction while limiting the disruption. Yes, some businesses have undoubtedly been impacted but they have had very helpful signage for access and parking. The biggest impact has been the loss of the center turning lane.

[You Need A Thneed]

There are a couple places where providing dedicated lanes along 52nd street would have required property acquisition to demolish the houses.

And there are a number of key queue jump lanes and lane extensions that are being built, which will be a huge improvement on how fast these busses can get through traffic. The intersection improvements at McKnight/52nd include queue jumps, but also have long lane extensions that will allow busses to bypass the traffic backups that happen there. The dual left turn lanes in all directions that are being added will do quite a bit towards reducing the traffic jams there too. Just north of this, southbound Falconridge Blvd is getting a queue jump at Castleridge Blvd, where with the previously mentioned work, there will be a third lane to get the busses through all the way through Mcknight.

Southbound 52nd got a lane extension just before 32nd age, where the BRT turns.

Where the BRT turns off of eastbound 16th ave onto northbound 36th street, they are building a queue jump there that will allow the BRT to get through the light before having to merge into traffic. There may be others that they haven't started yet too, but the ones mentioned will go a long way towards getting busses through almost as fast as if they had dedicated lanes.

The work at mcknight/52nd was badly needed even if they weren't doing work for the BRT. I do wonder how much this costs, and whether that shouldn't go towards an interchange there (obviously that would be significant additional cost on top), as one might be necessary in 10 years anyway.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Yes, fair enough I would say that would qualify, although just as with the SWBRT, it's still only partial as the rest of the journey has to be made in mixed traffic. It's a good start though and I hope they can figure out a way to get it into downtown properly.

17th ave SE BRT won't have dedicated lanes all the way downtown, but will have dedicated lanes right into the inner city.

It also should do a lot for redevelopment in the area, which the dedicated lanes along 14th can't do in the SW.

[technomad]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Last year in Calgary a few interchanges opened:

TCH/Bowfort Road - $71.7 million
MacLeod/162nd $78 million
Glenmore/Ogden - $90 million

Plus a load of smaller ones. Maybe that was just a big dollar year, but the argument that Calgary isn't spending money on roads is complete horse shit.

was going to say... Calgary always seems to have a few interchange projects on the go. Want to see road neglect? go 3 hrs north where a new interchange is a once a decade event, and the incredibly expensive transit projects add massive interference with vehicle traffic wherever possible

Calgary's pick-away approach to building the freeways is doing fine.. in the next decade we should see Stoney complete, possibly Glenmore and Airport trail too.

Beyond that, Crowchild and Deerfoot rebuilds are going to eat resources for a long long time.. enough that there will probably be screaming demand for a 4th LRT line by the time they're done

[technomad]

that south section of Barlow is still tagged as a freeway grade road on the city's planning maps, same as Deerfoot and Glenmore..

building that out to freeway spec would make a great bypass route for the overhaul of Deerfoot from Anderson to Peigan

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Acey

Increasingly I'm starting to think you can fix north Deerfoot for ~$400m. A couple reversible median HOV, basketweaves, other relatively minor fixes. That doesn't include fixing the embarrassment of a diamond at 16 Ave, but you don't need to fix that to fix mainline. At some point the objective becomes making Deerfoot less unsafe, as opposed to reaching an A level of service.

The south is beyond trashed, however. Have fun rebuilding the Anderson/Bow Bottom complex. Glen, Calf Robe, Ivor Strong, like it's just such a level of fuckery down there I don't know where you even start. Phase 1 at Glen with the new mainline bridge, maybe. Relatively unintrusive.

I use that diamond every day and it isn't bad really. The only issue is the (lack of) distance between it and Memorial.

[technomad]

Originally Posted by Acey

Objectively it is beyond the point of failure, but less so than other points on Deerfoot so it seems less bad. The bigger issue is...



...it's a collision trap. Goes back to the point about simply making Deerfoot and its interchanges more safe, as opposed to fixing capacity.

wow, didn't realize the accident count was so high there

so what’s the fix? systems interchanges at 16 and memorial, basket-weaves in between?

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Acey

Yes. But we can't afford that... so the idea is just to mitigate the damage with some lesser solution.

People flying downhill to at-grade intersections, it's hilarious to call Deerfoot/16th anything less than a massively unsafe embarrassment of a junction at the two most important highways in the province. Memorial west of Deerfoot carries ~100k a day, so the Memorial interchange is equally embarrassing and inadequate; it's a recurring theme on Deerfoot to the extent that any one junction ends up not looking as bad, relative to others.

You're being overly dramatic - 16th Ave may technically be the TCH but it's a city road at that point and hardly one of the Province's two most important roads. Yes, it's a crappy interchange but there are far worse examples elsewhere and it would be quite low down on my list of priorities.

That article states it's the 'most dangerous intersection', but then states that most of the accidents are rear enders, which could be classed as less bad than other accidents - I'd like to see their numbers. As I said, I use the interchange on my commute and there's rarely much of a wait, and very rarely any accidents. The interchange itself does not 'need' fixing, but basketweaves or collector roads or something between 16th and Barlow on Deerfoot.