Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure what you mean by "veils"

This. More and more frequent in the streets of Paris.

[Hawrylyshyn]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

I was in Brampton recently and aside from a few older neighborhoods, it feels like a more distinct society than anywhere in Quebec.

aka. Feels more like India than Canada

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

aka. Feels more like India than Canada

We got it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

This. More and more frequent in the streets of Paris.

Definitely increasing in frequency but still not that common. Yet.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I live in Gatineau in a more suburban area (but not too far from the city centre) and I see hijabs all the time here. My neighbourhood is mostly single-family homes so not as many here but 2 km away are areas with mostly apartments and in the shops and along the boulevards there you are almost 100% certain to see women with hijabs these days.

Where do you live in Gatineau?

Cause I'm in Gatineau everyday for work and I don't think I've ever seen a fully covered woman (outside of winter clothing) and I don't even think I see headscarves daily on the bus. The full black robes? I don't think I've ever seen it in the Ottawa area. Let alone in Gatineau.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Definitely increasing in frequency but still not that common. Yet.

Although common enough (with many variations) that you wouldn't blink. At least in Ottawa.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Where do you live in Gatineau?

Cause I'm in Gatineau everyday for work and I don't think I've ever seen a fully covered woman (outside of winter clothing) and I don't even think I see headscarves daily on the bus. The full black robes? I don't think I've ever seen it in the Ottawa area. Let alone in Gatineau.

Are you in Hull?
I feel that @Acajack’s in Old City, which is apparently a different world. (I’ve never visited, but only bypassed on A-50.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Where do you live in Gatineau?

Cause I'm in Gatineau everyday for work and I don't think I've ever seen a fully covered woman (outside of winter clothing) and I don't even think I see headscarves daily on the bus. The full black robes? I don't think I've ever seen it in the Ottawa area. Let alone in Gatineau.

I actually have someone in my professional entourage who wears the full black robe.

So does the sister of one my kids' friends.

I still didn't want to overstate it though as it's still quite marginal overall.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Are you in Hull?
I feel that @Acajack’s in Old City, which is apparently a different world. (I’ve never visited, but only bypassed on A-50.)

Between Hotel de Ville and Louis St-Laurent (near the Casino) till recently. Now at Asticou.

And I take STO buses for some of my commute. Or sometimes, to go between buildings. Headscarves are more rare than Ottawa. And I don't think I've ever seen a person wearing an Abaya in Ottawa. That said, headscarves don't trigger me, so I'm not sitting on the bus with a counter clicking every headscarf I see.

[MolsonExport]

Several Muslim women with full robes (face showing, however) have worked for me over the years. They were wonderful people, if rather pious.

As long as there is no safety or obscenity issue, I could care less what people wear. It is only garments, fer fux sakes.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

aka. Feels more like India than Canada

Funny guy.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I actually have someone in my professional entourage who wears the full black robe.

So does the sister of one my kids' friends.

I still didn't want to overstate it though as it's still quite marginal overall.

You should buy a lottery ticket. This feels like a statistical impossibility in Ottawa, unless you're living in a very immigrant heavy neighborhood or if you're an immigrant yourself.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

aka. Feels more like India than Canada

Actually no. I say this as someone of Indian heritage. Brampton is actually rather sub-ethnically specific. It's so Punjabi dominated, other Indian immigrants try and avoid it. And anybody coming from the larger cities in India actually tend to be more comfortable in downtown Toronto than Brampton.

I know to white guys all Indians look the same. But the difference between a South Indian Tamil and a North Indian Punjabi is as comparable to the difference between a Swede and an Italian. Languages, food and even religious practices are different.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You should buy a lottery ticket. This feels like a statistical impossibility in Ottawa, unless you're living in a very immigrant heavy neighborhood or if you're an immigrant yourself.

It's certainly not impossible. For the last few years in my hospital, two of the 14 radiologists in my department were Hijabi wearing Muslim women. They were both very pleasant and professional people, although I must admit that the Hijab does present a very real cultural barrier to building a warm personal relationship. Although very pleasant, I would describe them as aloof and difficult to really know. FWIW, we also had two other non Hijab wearing Muslim women in the department at the same time, and there was less of a cultural barrier with them than with their Hijab wearing counterparts.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Actually no. I say this as someone of Indian heritage. Brampton is actually rather sub-ethnically specific. It's so Punjabi dominated, other Indian immigrants try and avoid it. And anybody coming from the larger cities in India actually tend to be more comfortable in downtown Toronto than Brampton.

I know to white guys all Indians look the same. But the difference between a South Indian Tamil and a North Indian Punjabi is as comparable to the difference between a Swede and an Italian. Languages, food and even religious practices are different.

Very interesting.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Between Hotel de Ville and Louis St-Laurent (near the Casino) till recently. Now at Asticou.

And I take STO buses for some of my commute. Or sometimes, to go between buildings. Headscarves are more rare than Ottawa. And I don't think I've ever seen a person wearing an Abaya in Ottawa. That said, headscarves don't trigger me, so I'm not sitting on the bus with a counter clicking every headscarf I see.

I was asked for my observations so I gave them.

There are no women AFAIK in my street that wear Muslim gear of any kind. We do have lots of people from NAME in my street, but they are mostly Lebanese Christians. My next-door neighbours are Muslim from North Africa. All of the women in that family dress western.

My take from where I sit.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Very interesting.

Canadian understanding of the subcontinent has been shaped by the massively disproportionate number of Punjabis in the Canadian Indian diaspora (something that is beginning to change). It's impossible for Canadians to imagine that Sikhs only make up 2% of India's population and Punjabis as a whole make up ~6% of the subcontinent's population. Imagine, for example, if the entire impression of Canada was based on a single medium-large province (like Alberta) and you'll have some idea of how skewed this image is.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It's certainly not impossible. For the last few years in my hospital, two of the 14 radiologists in my department were Hijabi wearing Muslim women. They were both very pleasant and professional people, although I must admit that the Hijab does present a very real cultural barrier to building a warm personal relationship. Although very pleasant, I would describe them as aloof and difficult to really know. FWIW, we also had two other non Hijab wearing Muslim women in the department at the same time, and there was less of a cultural barrier with them than with their Hijab wearing counterparts.

The person who wears the black robe that I sometimes work with is basically indistinguishable in terms of demeanour from someone her age who grew up in Canada, so no socialization difficulties there.

That said I have known a few Hijabi women who were very distant with men and obviously wanted as little to do with us as possible. That was more challenging
Not all of them mind you. Many are just like I described above.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

aka. Feels more like India than Canada

You haven't been to India obviously. Brown people walking around doesn't make it India.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Canadian understanding of the subcontinent has been usually shaped by the massively disproportionate number of Punjabis in the Canadian Indian diaspora (something that is beginning to change). It's impossible for Canadians to imagine that Sikhs only make up 2% of India's population and Punjabis as a whole make up ~6% of the subcontinent's population. Imagine, for example, if the entire impression of Canada was based on a single medium-large province (like Alberta) and you'll have some idea of how skewed this image is.

Yeah that is interesting. The parts of Canada I grew up in tended to have more Hindus than Sikhs and even more Indian Muslims so that's the impression of India I got.