Tempe Development Thread

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Interesting blog post I noticed today about State Farm:

http://t4america.org/2015/03/16/state-fa...-of-employees-in-locations-near-transit/

Apparently, the Tempe location is part of an overall strategy of locating near rail transit. The same criterion is being used for offices in Atlanta and Dallas. There is a reader comment at the bottom of the post, however, that makes an important point: If the parking is free or ridiculously cheap, the incentive to walk half a mile to the Mill Ave / 3rd St. station may not be all that strong.

I am sure the fact that Tempe is building a streetcar for almost the sole purpose of making that walk less oppressive for workers of this development was also taken into consideration.

Reality is that aside from a few places like The Lofts at Rio Salado, Hanover, Grigio Metro, SALT, CityScape and a few others, there really aren't even that many residential TOD choices for workers to live in and take advantage of a car-free commuting lifestyle. Most residential options would require using park-and-rides, and at that point, with the free/heavily subsidized garages, why not just drive when they're already have to in order to shop for almost all basic needs/essentials and a lot of their entertainment?

Yet another reason the Priest/Washington plans are a disappointment. Being just 2 stops from downtown Tempe, it would be the perfect central location for residential catered to the abundance of new workers who will be commuting to the Mill area once Marina Heights, HFL3 and Mill+Rio all open. Aside from The Lofts, there are almost no options in that part of the light rail route, which is a much more attractive and convenient location than the surplus of housing east of Rural, with its closer proximity to downtown Phoenix, airport, etc.

[PHXFlyer11]

Been waiting awhile to see this: http://www.tempe.gov/Home/ShowDocument?id=31783

Overall it's okay. I am a huge fan of the density, but the buildings do not look modern to me with so little glass and those small square windows.

What's interesting is that this is indeed 2 phases, but both towers are included in phase 1. Phase 2 is simply the restoration of Hayden House.

[TempeSilverFox]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

Been waiting awhile to see this: http://www.tempe.gov/Home/ShowDocument?id=31783

Overall it's okay. I am a huge fan of the density, but the buildings do not look modern to me with so little glass and those small square windows.

What's interesting is that this is indeed 2 phases, but both towers are included in phase 1. Phase 2 is simply the restoration of Hayden House.

I just took a look at the renderings and I think there is a lot more glass than you think. If you look at Attachment 48 (page 48) of the docs, it appears that there is a healthy amount of glass accompanying the metal and concrete portions of each building.
I think they will look good there- and will pair nicely with the US Airways and Allstate buildings that are already there. At any rate- it's so exciting to see this project on its way!!!

[Jjs5056]

I like the project... I think a Palomar is a good fit for the Mill Ave area, that office space makes sense in the market, and that having ground level uses wrapping this intersection will go a long way toward activating downtown from the lake - University. I also like the planned pedestrian pathway through the project to connect the lake to the light rail station.

The design is a bit boring and looks like a modernized version of the Gateway building, but I guess that design consistency in the area isn't so terrible. I would have liked to see a bit more height in the office tower... only floors 7-15 are office space, and given the demand, you'd think they could have pushed the height a bit further. Aesthetically, it would've looked better to have the two towers be alternating heights IMO, instead of having both top out at 15 floors.

I also wish that the Hayden House was being incorporated into the first phase, as leaving the space vacant will leave a pretty big hole in the streetscape for at least 3+ years.

Overall, it's a great addition.

[rocksteady]

I hate the lack of height compared to some of the previous renderings and projects for that spot, but overall it's a great addition. Looking at their other projects in other cities listed at the bottom makes me wish for some of those designs instead of what's proposed. Kinda drab in comparison.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by rocksteady

I hate the lack of height compared to some of the previous renderings and projects for that spot, but overall it's a great addition. Looking at their other projects in other cities listed at the bottom makes me wish for some of those designs instead of what's proposed. Kinda drab in comparison.

I think the height is ok. Remember even though the lot had been approved for taller buildings in the past, FAA scrutiny has increased since 2007 and i highly doubt theyd be able to go much higher than 15 stories.

Also, has anyone heard anything about the proposed Jefferson next to Northshore? I know there was a hearing in December with opposition from the HOA, but i never heard the result of that hearing reported.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I think the height is ok. Remember even though the lot had been approved for taller buildings in the past, FAA scrutiny has increased since 2007 and i highly doubt theyd be able to go much higher than 15 stories.

Also, has anyone heard anything about the proposed Jefferson next to Northshore? I know there was a hearing in December with opposition from the HOA, but i never heard the result of that hearing reported.

I think that since the PAD was approved for 257 (or 297?) feet, that they were entitled to build up to that height. I don't think it would be legal for the FAA to come in now and change their stance, devaluing the land, and so forth... I could be 100% wrong there.

I think the originally planned heights were way too overwhelming for that intersection and would have created a massive wall. This project is much closer to the correct scale for the area... I just wish the office building was a BIT taller (maybe 20 stories as opposed to 15) to create delineation on the skyline.

Haven't heard anything re: Jefferson, but I think the only thing that was going to change (if anything) was the parking circulation.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

I think that since the PAD was approved for 257 (or 297?) feet, that they were entitled to build up to that height. I don't think it would be legal for the FAA to come in now and change their stance, devaluing the land, and so forth... I could be 100% wrong there.

I think the originally planned heights were way too overwhelming for that intersection and would have created a massive wall. This project is much closer to the correct scale for the area... I just wish the office building was a BIT taller (maybe 20 stories as opposed to 15) to create delineation on the skyline.

Haven't heard anything re: Jefferson, but I think the only thing that was going to change (if anything) was the parking circulation.

Remember though that the FAA has recently tightened it's stance and Phoenix and Tempe were very upset. I find it hard to believe that they would allow 300' there now being so close to the flight path and end of the runway. Remember the south runway's flight path takes it basically right over the lake or even more south than than.

I think this will be a nice addition. Good to see more tower cranes soon in Tempe with other projects nearing completion. I agree though, we do need 3-4 more 18-24 story towers. Hopefully the Ash and 5th project speeds up its timeframe. Anxious to see the project SilverFox mentioned too the other week.

I think we should also hear something soon on new proposals for USAplace. Granted, without US Basketball.

[ASUSunDevil]

Lot of dirt being moved around at the AC by Marriott site today.

Here's a refresher: http://azbex.com/ac-by-marriott-tempe-plans-159-room-tempe-lakefront-hotel/

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

Lot of dirt being moved around at the AC by Marriott site today.

Here's a refresher: http://azbex.com/ac-by-marriott-tempe-plans-159-room-tempe-lakefront-hotel/

YES!!! The entire lakefront will be filled from Mill to University, well almost...

I can't wait to see what happens with the last remaining parcel that is currently the construction offices for Marina Heights. I think the City/ASU will RFQ that out.

The density there is going to be awesome. And when the Mill renovation with hotel, restaurant and ampethere are done there will be a little action on the south side of rio salado for the first time.

[Spitfiredude]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

Lot of dirt being moved around at the AC by Marriott site today.

SWEEEEET! I was going to drive by tomorrow to take a look if work started.
Between the AC Marriott, Mill/Rio, Hayden Mill, SALT, State Farm, HFL 3, and eastern most Marina Heights parcel we should see a full line of buildings from Ash Ave-Packard Dr by 2016-2017. One positive note is Tempe has seen steady development since about 2011-2012. We have had a couple projects fail to pan out, but there have been some milestones since the recession. Now I plead for the streetcar to commence!

The apartments on the north side of the lake along College Ave are still doing ground work, but the lake is starting to fill up (northside/southside west of Rural). Anyone want to take guesses on what next parcel we will see proposals for (besides eastern most Marina Hts development). Maybe Hayden Harbor? I hope that development sees 10-20 story towers!!!

http://www.tempe.gov/city-hall/community-development/development-projects

[rocksteady]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

YES!!! The entire lakefront will be filled from Mill to University, well almost...

I can't wait to see what happens with the last remaining parcel that is currently the construction offices for Marina Heights. I think the City/ASU will RFQ that out.

The density there is going to be awesome. And when the Mill renovation with hotel, restaurant and ampethere are done there will be a little action on the south side of rio salado for the first time.

WHile I'm happy to see that parcel filled in with a hotel, I'm always a bit underwhelmed when I look at the renderings. It's a shame the hotels and residential along the lake aren't the highest of all the buildings to make the most out of the incredible views. I would love to see that lake lined with highrises, at least up as high as they can go with the flight path overhead.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by rocksteady

WHile I'm happy to see that parcel filled in with a hotel, I'm always a bit underwhelmed when I look at the renderings. It's a shame the hotels and residential along the lake aren't the highest of all the buildings to make the most out of the incredible views. I would love to see that lake lined with highrises, at least up as high as they can go with the flight path overhead.

Agreed. It would've been nice to have residential and hotel highrises along the lake. SALT, AC Marriott, and The Jefferson are pretty stumpy and underwhelming, but at least Marina Heights brings some decent excitement.

I think Hayden Harbor is a long way out, and I'm not sure who even owns that parcel at this point, let alone whether there are any plans for it.

I would probably guess that Phase I of the Stadium District will be the next movement we see at the lakefront. It would be nice if it started with the parcel east of Marina Heights, and then continued toward McClintock along the lake before building over Karsten.

Ideally, I'd like to see that parcel east of Marina Heights sold off to a private developer and a residential tower over some kind of attraction (an aquarium would have been appropriate) be built. Or, given that BRT will be running down Scottsdale Rd, and the Streetcar along Rio Salado, perhaps a decent-sized transit center at the base would make sense.

[rocksteady]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Agreed. It would've been nice to have residential and hotel highrises along the lake. SALT, AC Marriott, and The Jefferson are pretty stumpy and underwhelming, but at least Marina Heights brings some decent excitement.

I think Hayden Harbor is a long way out, and I'm not sure who even owns that parcel at this point, let alone whether there are any plans for it.

I would probably guess that Phase I of the Stadium District will be the next movement we see at the lakefront. It would be nice if it started with the parcel east of Marina Heights, and then continued toward McClintock along the lake before building over Karsten.

Ideally, I'd like to see that parcel east of Marina Heights sold off to a private developer and a residential tower over some kind of attraction (an aquarium would have been appropriate) be built. Or, given that BRT will be running down Scottsdale Rd, and the Streetcar along Rio Salado, perhaps a decent-sized transit center at the base would make sense.

I've always liked the idea of an attraction down there, like an aquarium...but I see a big aquarium is getting built up on the salt river reservation. I doubt the region would build two not far from one another. The lake def needs more than office, hotel, and residential and some attraction would be a nice add.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by rocksteady

I've always liked the idea of an attraction down there, like an aquarium...but I see a big aquarium is getting built up on the salt river reservation. I doubt the region would build two not far from one another. The lake def needs more than office, hotel, and residential and some attraction would be a nice add.

I believe there is also one at AZ Mills, so yes, it wouldn't be realistic.

I actually wouldn't mind if that corner parcel is just a transit center with ferry services on weekends connecting restaurants from shore to shore, along with public art and a grand entrance onto the multi-use path that runs along the lake. I think this would add much more to the lake than a generic highrise would. The lake is a community asset and there should certainly be attractions adjacent to it that engage the public and aren't corporate offices or luxury housing. Having Tempe Beach Park and some kind of public amenity on this parcel would be nice end-caps to the sterile (yet, very exciting) development going on in between.

There was always talk of having an actual 'swimmable' section of Town Lake - essentially, a floating pool. Maybe something like that would be a good fit? Or, a Salt River Project museum? Orrrr... some kind of water-inspired observation deck with a restaurant on top?

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

I believe there is also one at AZ Mills, so yes, it wouldn't be realistic.

I actually wouldn't mind if that corner parcel is just a transit center with ferry services on weekends connecting restaurants from shore to shore, along with public art and a grand entrance onto the multi-use path that runs along the lake. I think this would add much more to the lake than a generic highrise would. The lake is a community asset and there should certainly be attractions adjacent to it that engage the public and aren't corporate offices or luxury housing. Having Tempe Beach Park and some kind of public amenity on this parcel would be nice end-caps to the sterile (yet, very exciting) development going on in between.

There was always talk of having an actual 'swimmable' section of Town Lake - essentially, a floating pool. Maybe something like that would be a good fit? Or, a Salt River Project museum? Orrrr... some kind of water-inspired observation deck with a restaurant on top?

I think that should be the signature corner for the lake as the last remaining parcel on the south side.

Power lines cover the front half of the lot, so whatever goes there if it's residential or commercial should be tall. I'd like for it to be 20 stories with public amenities as you mentioned. We discussed a floating restaurant or two, that would be awesome there.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I think that should be the signature corner for the lake as the last remaining parcel on the south side.

Power lines cover the front half of the lot, so whatever goes there if it's residential or commercial should be tall. I'd like for it to be 20 stories with public amenities as you mentioned. We discussed a floating restaurant or two, that would be awesome there.

I think Tempe continues to prove that height doesn't always = great city. In this case, I don't think a signature corner necessarily needs to include a tower. A transit center that connects streetcar, BRT, and ferry systems next to a grand public entrance to Tempe Town Lake will go a long way toward making the lakefront an urban scene vs. a cold, isolated, residential tower.

In an ideal world, I agree that all of these things could come together, and I hope they do (high rise residential on top of a transit center? Observation tower on top of a transit center? W hotel on top of a SRP Museum?). Just playing devil's advocate a bit, while stressing the importance of ensuring the lake is as publicly accessible as possible.

[Obadno]

[QUOTE=Jjs5056;6966602]I think Tempe continues to prove that height doesn't always = great city. QUOTE]

In a lot of cases height does nothing for the street level vibrancy. All of Europe, D.C, Countless vacation mountain and beach towns all prove this.

Id rather have Phoenix-temp-Scottsdale be comprised of blocks and blocks of 1-20 story well designed buildings than 3 isolated groups of towers.

[Jjs5056]

Exactly. I love towers when they are well-designed, but that seems to be rare. There has to be somewhat of a balance, though, because 4-story apartments in downtown Tempe also could be problematic. There is only so much land left to develop, and they're trying to create a critical mass, which is obviously much easier to do through 12 story buildings than 4.

In news...

Tempe has chosen a median, mixed-traffic alignment for the streetcar along the Apache leg. This was chosen over a north-lane alignment, as well as a dedicated median.

I didn't realize a dedicated median was on the table, and am really disappointed that it wasn't selected. That would've made the streetcar much more reliable and not impacted by congestion, traffic, etc. and lead to greater ridership as it would prove to be more efficient than walking or biking. Leaving it in mixed-use traffic means people will continue using their current mode, whether it be car, foot or bike since the streetcar won't have a single advantage over any of them.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Exactly. I love towers when they are well-designed, but that seems to be rare. There has to be somewhat of a balance, though, because 4-story apartments in downtown Tempe also could be problematic. There is only so much land left to develop, and they're trying to create a critical mass, which is obviously much easier to do through 12 story buildings than 4.

In news...

Tempe has chosen a median, mixed-traffic alignment for the streetcar along the Apache leg. This was chosen over a north-lane alignment, as well as a dedicated median.

I didn't realize a dedicated median was on the table, and am really disappointed that it wasn't selected. That would've made the streetcar much more reliable and not impacted by congestion, traffic, etc. and lead to greater ridership as it would prove to be more efficient than walking or biking. Leaving it in mixed-use traffic means people will continue using their current mode, whether it be car, foot or bike since the streetcar won't have a single advantage over any of them.

Is there an updated diagram anywhere to reflect this? Any update on when they expect to break ground?