Edmonton Construction 13 (November 2015)

[240glt]

Sounds like several Westrich properties having major building heating problems. A friend in Signature has been heating her apartment with her oven and a space heater since last night. Heard of problems in Ultima as well.

[noodlenoodle]

Originally Posted by 240glt

Sounds like several Westrich properties having major building heating problems. A friend in Signature has been heating her apartment with her oven and a space heater since last night. Heard of problems in Ultima as well.

Reddit thread on Ultima

[Coldrsx]

...you mean having a serious portion of your condo curtain wall or glazing makes it cold?

Even in our building with a fair amount of south glazing and large bedroom windows it is hard to keep it quite warm on cold days. Cranked to 30C you typically get 23C on days like this. Maybe.

People often forget or do not understand that there is a tradeoff for views, windows and curtain wall.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

Reddit thread on Ultima

That is the least informative, reactionary and poorly constructed thread in a long long time.

[240glt]

^^ much more significant than that I am hearing

If you can't satisfy setpoint in your condo then yes you have a problem. But you'll have trouble achieving 30c regardless, but with perimeter baseboard, if your boiler are sized and working properly and your resets are set up properly as well you should have no problem overcoming the thermal loss of the windows

[noodlenoodle]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

...you mean having a serious portion of your condo curtain wall or glazing makes it cold?

Even in our building with a fair amount of south glazing and large bedroom windows it is hard to keep it quite warm on cold days. Cranked to 30C you typically get 23C on days like this. Maybe.

People often forget or do not understand that there is a tradeoff for views, windows and curtain wall.

Uh, I don't know what kind of sub-par sh!tshack you live in but even with >400 sq ft of glass my Uptown unit is having zero issues keeping it at 23 with the thermostat set at...23.

(I find it extra hilarious you're chastising people for not realizing the implications & inefficiency inherent with curtain wall buildings while simultaneously advocating the heating of the great outdoors so you can get your drink on.)

[Skyisnolimit]

Originally Posted by 240glt

^^ much more significant than that I am hearing

If you can't satisfy setpoint in your condo then yes you have a problem. But you'll have trouble achieving 30c regardless, but with perimeter baseboard, if your boiler are sized and working properly and your resets are set up properly as well you should have no problem overcoming the thermal loss of the windows

You're in the HVAC industry how could this possibly happen with today's high efficency and computerized systems .

[s4.audios]

There have been issues with the heat at Ultima but not as crazy as that thread is making it to be. I can recollect three times, the first two were very early on and had something to do with a malfunction. The third more recent occurred for just a couple hours, did not hear why.

There was one day all the water was shut off because an owner decided to drill holes in their bathroom walls to make modifications and they punctured a water main. At least that is what we were told, there were a couple units that had minor water damage from that, luckily we did not.

Heating up the place in general hasn't been that bad, it gets hot if you crank it up. My only complaint on that is the actual vents are not spread out that well. The master bedroom has three vents and I believe the heat/cool source comes from near those vents because that room and bathroom get hot/cold very fast. My small room has only one vent and must be far from the heat source because it is definitely cooler than the rest of the home.

Question though, I get with curtain wall we will have some heat loss and it is evident in the temperature in the windows. But it is not the windows that are the coldest, rather the panels in between. They are super cold on cold nights and sometimes noticed condensation on them.. is this normal??

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

...you mean having a serious portion of your condo curtain wall or glazing makes it cold?

Even in our building with a fair amount of south glazing and large bedroom windows it is hard to keep it quite warm on cold days. Cranked to 30C you typically get 23C on days like this. Maybe.

People often forget or do not understand that there is a tradeoff for views, windows and curtain wall.

that's like my wife... when she wants a 2 degree temperature change from 18 to 20, she cranks the thermostat to 30 and then waits until she gets warm to turn it back down again. it won't go from 18 to 20 any faster regardless of whether the thermostat is set at 20 or 25 or 30.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by s4.audios

There have been issues with the heat at Ultima but not as crazy as that thread is making it to be. I can recollect three times, the first two were very early on and had something to do with a malfunction. The third more recent occurred for just a couple hours, did not hear why.

There was one day all the water was shut off because an owner decided to drill holes in their bathroom walls to make modifications and they punctured a water main. At least that is what we were told, there were a couple units that had minor water damage from that, luckily we did not.

Heating up the place in general hasn't been that bad, it gets hot if you crank it up. My only complaint on that is the actual vents are not spread out that well. The master bedroom has three vents and I believe the heat/cool source comes from near those vents because that room and bathroom get hot/cold very fast. My small room has only one vent and must be far from the heat source because it is definitely cooler than the rest of the home.

Question though, I get with curtain wall we will have some heat loss and it is evident in the temperature in the windows. But it is not the windows that are the coldest, rather the panels in between. They are super cold on cold nights and sometimes noticed condensation on them.. is this normal??

that doesn't sound normal... it sounds like there are thermal bridges to the exterior somewhere in the assembly that shouldn't be there which could be a design or a manufacturing or a construction flaw. an infrared scan might help to identify whether that's the cause or not and if it is to locate it. you might need to have a building envelope review done if it's widespread and not localized. in either case, that should be condo association investigation and not an owner cost.

[TimB09]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

...you mean having a serious portion of your condo curtain wall or glazing makes it cold?

Even in our building with a fair amount of south glazing and large bedroom windows it is hard to keep it quite warm on cold days. Cranked to 30C you typically get 23C on days like this. Maybe.

People often forget or do not understand that there is a tradeoff for views, windows and curtain wall.

Got nothing to do with curtainwall or the like. Has to do with poor insulation of the windows and poor building on the builders part.

On that note, never buy with Brookfield. Sorry for the derail but I'm having all kinds of fun with them. Not impressed in the least.

[s4.audios]

Thanks Mr.Cantor, I will keep an eye out and see if anything needs to be done.

[s4.audios]

Originally Posted by TimB09

On that note, never buy with Brookfield. Sorry for the derail but I'm having all kinds of fun with them. Not impressed in the least.

Sorry to hear, Brookfield maintains a strong focus on customer satisfaction and is generally high. Hope the service team resolves your issues quickly.

[Coldrsx]

ALL projects have post-occupancy issues, hence warranties and a 1yr deficiency coverage. It is all about how companies respond to these issues.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by Skyisnolimit

You're in the HVAC industry how could this possibly happen with today's high efficency and computerized systems .

Most apartment buildings have very basic controls and less redundancy than higher quality commercial buildings.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by s4.audios

There have been issues with the heat at Ultima but not as crazy as that thread is making it to be. I can recollect three times, the first two were very early on and had something to do with a malfunction. The third more recent occurred for just a couple hours, did not hear why.

There was one day all the water was shut off because an owner decided to drill holes in their bathroom walls to make modifications and they punctured a water main. At least that is what we were told, there were a couple units that had minor water damage from that, luckily we did not.

Heating up the place in general hasn't been that bad, it gets hot if you crank it up. My only complaint on that is the actual vents are not spread out that well. The master bedroom has three vents and I believe the heat/cool source comes from near those vents because that room and bathroom get hot/cold very fast. My small room has only one vent and must be far from the heat source because it is definitely cooler than the rest of the home.

Question though, I get with curtain wall we will have some heat loss and it is evident in the temperature in the windows. But it is not the windows that are the coldest, rather the panels in between. They are super cold on cold nights and sometimes noticed condensation on them.. is this normal??

Thermal bridging, prevalent on lower quality window systems, improper installations or premature failures

[Coldrsx]

^indeed. Keep in mind though that Ultima is window wall, not curtain, so it acts much more like a traditional window in many ways. That said, the spacers/'mullions'/'spandrel' should be insulated. Also depends on your humidity level. If I cook something on the stove or use the oven, condensation certainly occurs. A hot shower, the same thing.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

Uh, I don't know what kind of sub-par sh!tshack you live in but even with >400 sq ft of glass my Uptown unit is having zero issues keeping it at 23 with the thermostat set at...23.

(I find it extra hilarious you're chastising people for not realizing the implications & inefficiency inherent with curtain wall buildings while simultaneously advocating the heating of the great outdoors so you can get your drink on.)

EIFS and PVC with lower end double pane do not exactly exude efficiency or performance...

Not mutually exclusive and a wee different my friend.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

ALL projects have post-occupancy issues, hence warranties and a 1yr deficiency coverage. It is all about how companies respond to these issues.

Yes & no. Yes there is always some tweaking and deficiency resulution. However there is 'normal' and then there's issues that go far beyond that, that are not easily solved within a warranty period and are the result of poor design and construction practices.

Unfortunatley in Edmonton it does seem like the later is more prevalent than in other places

[Coldrsx]

^perhaps, but friend's with condos in Toronto, Cal, Van all have had minor and major issues... it is not unique to us.