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  #5661  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2014, 1:53 AM
poconoboy61 poconoboy61 is offline
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Originally Posted by pbenjamin View Post
A major issue with tourists is the transportation system. I see many people coming here who would like not to rent a car. With the light rail we can now tell people that if they stay in a hotel along the rail they can get to places like the museums, Mill Avenue, etc. which is an improvement, but then they ask about nightlife and end up staying in Tempe to be near Mill Ave. In most cases they want to go to enough spread out locations that they do rent a car and then may as well stay at a resort in Scottsdale.
Where are you seeing these people? I work along the light rail line in Midtown and many of my coworkers who visit Phoenix don't give a second thought to renting a car, even if they are stay along the rail line, as well. This is a auto-oriented city and that won't change for anything.
     
     
  #5662  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2014, 2:48 AM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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I was part of multi-million dollar research project, inclusive of a focus group study, regarding travelers' input on the state, and yes- the majority of visitors will be renting a car, as the #1 destination for these visitors will not be accessible by light rail: Grand Canyon and National Parks/Monuments, and Spring Training stadiums during the spring. These folks will overwhelmingly choose the more resort-style hospitality options.

Also, visitors overwhelmingly responded poorly to our dining, nightlife, and more urban kind of destinations, based on the fact that the most popular markets for visitation have us beat when it comes to that area: LA, Chicago, New York, Seattle, etc.

At the same time, that number wasn't 0%, nor does it mean that you can't interpret that finding as an opportunity rather than a loss. From personal experience, not from this official research, the LGBTQ community seeks out urban experiences and lodging for their trips, as gay clubs and activity is usually/always found within center cities. The other major group might be family and friends of ASU students, for the convenience factor, if they attend downtown.

And, of course, the #1 reason for this conversation is business travelers, who will stay in these hotels for the convenience during their stay for any conferences or meeting they'll have at the CC, with white collar professionals, or civic leadership. As noted, in order to reach the next tier of conventioneers, we need more rooms. Period. The demand is there, and has been there: during the boom, the city was ready to finance 2 additional hotels on the same scope as the Sheraton.

Everyone is going to be able to think of a certain friend who has a unique preference or what not. I'm not sure what the goal is of debating whether visitors travel via light rail or not in regards to building more hotels downtown.
     
     
  #5663  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2014, 3:59 AM
nickw252 nickw252 is offline
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Originally Posted by Classical in Phoenix View Post
Shouldn't the article read the Northeast Corner of the intersection instead of the Northwest Corner?
The article says north of the northwest corner, which I believe is correct.

I love the design of the townhomes. Smaller scale projects with a street presence like these are what that area of downtown needs.

Can anyone remind me- will these be market rate units?
     
     
  #5664  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2014, 9:56 AM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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Originally Posted by nickw252 View Post
The article says north of the northwest corner, which I believe is correct.

I love the design of the townhomes. Smaller scale projects with a street presence like these are what that area of downtown needs.

Can anyone remind me- will these be market rate units?
Absolutely. 3-4 story projects like this from Central to 7th Ave, Fillmore to Roosevelt would be great: still within the scale of the mostly 1-2 story single family homes, but building density and population base to support neighborhood retail, and allowing a cleaner transition to greater heights along Roosevelt, Central, and within the neighborhoods south of Fillmore.

The article is prompting me to subscribe, but I believe these would be condo units; if not, then certainly market rate and not low income housing.
     
     
  #5665  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2014, 3:54 PM
KevininPhx KevininPhx is offline
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Originally Posted by pbenjamin View Post
There are people like that but they aren't tourists who come to Arizona. The folks who come here are looking for golf, sunshine, hiking, "old town" Scottsdale, Sedona, Grand Canyon, etc. If you look on tripadvisor.com there is an occasional person who is interested in staying downtown but once the place is described to them they end up in Scottsdale or Tempe. The general view, even amongst ourselves, is that downtown Phoenix is not a destination worth considering. Two big hotels wouldn't change that.
Well, you may be right. I'm just saying the recent report that came out (which is possibly just KTAR attacking the money spent on the Sheraton) cites 60% for downtown. That is a pretty good rate for any area anywhere outside NYC and a handful of other places. That rate, coupled with future population growth (which is one of the numbers hotels most care about) suggests there is room for significantly more hotel rooms.

from that article: Overall, downtown hotels have about a 60 percent occupancy rate.
     
     
  #5666  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2014, 2:36 PM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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What's the current status of the Sun Merc building which infamously prevented the W's construction back in the boom? It had been slated to become a branch of the Rock n Roll HOF before the W plans came about; is there any way to start campaigning for them to consider locating there once again? Or, is the warehouse owned by Sarver, who - judging by his gutting of the warehouse district's gateway buildings - is highly unlikely to let it become anything worthwhile?

Also, is there any resource that shows the present owners of specific pieces of property? I'm mainly interested in the warehouse district, if that helps. Square footage would also be great, but anything would be helpful!
     
     
  #5667  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2014, 3:54 PM
dtnphx dtnphx is offline
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Phoenix considering reduced lanes, speed limits for downtown
Eugene Scott, The Republic | azcentral.com

City leaders and downtown advocates want to decrease the number of lanes and reduce speed limits on downtown Phoenix major thoroughfares in yet another step to revitalize the area.

The Maricopa Association of Governments has launched a Phoenix Comprehensive Downtown Transportation Study to address concerns related to driving, walking, bicycling and public transit. The study focuses on the city's boundaries for downtown — McDowell Road to the north, Buckeye Road to the south, Seventh Avenue to the west and Seventh Street to the east.

The changes aren't necessary just for downtown residents, but for all who come to the area to work and play, said Councilwoman Kate Gallego, who represents part of downtown Phoenix.

"I would like to see Seventh Street and Seventh Avenue become more of a gateway into downtown and more of a complete street," she said. "Right now, in our five-year plan, we have plans for better crossing and a bridge, but I'm hearing that islands would be great and would improve safety."

Any changes are years away, and costs have yet to be estimated.

Improvements could include enhanced pedestrian and bicycle facilities and changes to one-way streets, said Mark Melnychenko, manager of the study.

"The overall goal for the project is the movement of people downtown while also enhancing economic-development opportunities," he said.

The city's traditional downtown transportation policy was to get people into and out of downtown for work or a sports event as quickly as possible, said Tim Eigo, steering committee chairman for Downtown Voices Coalition, a downtown advocacy group. With downtown becoming a magnet for music festivals, art events and businesses, city and community leaders want to attract more people and keep them in the area longer.

Eigo said his group wants to "stimulate and encourage a demand for the product that is the Phoenix urban experience" by adding vegetation, shade and midblock pedestrian crossings, especially along the light-rail corridors.

Recommended changes could lead to significant improvements on both Seventh Avenue and Seventh Street between Van Buren and Roosevelt streets, said Matthew Taunton, multimodal committee chairman for the Evans Churchill Community Association, another downtown advocacy group.

"These roadways are very complicated, as they are the major north-south arterials in downtown, serve freeway interchanges and serve much of the event traffic in and out of downtown," he said. "They are also huge obstacles to the overall livability in downtown and create major barriers between downtown and adjacent neighborhoods."

Along Seventh Street, changes could include wider sidewalks, more landscaping, safer crossings, more signs and lighting to improve the experience for pedestrians. The area has seen a recent boom in traffic to nearby restaurants, secondary schools and ASU's downtown campus.

Decreasing traffic lanes from six to four, reducing the posted speed limit and creating a raised median along Seventh Street and Seventh Avenue would establish "a more livable street," said Melnychenko, a special projects administrator for the Phoenix Street Transportation Department.

Advocates recognize that some people would like to maintain the status quo, but organized opposition has yet to arise regarding lane reductions and lower speed limits.

"A sense of place on many of our streets entering downtown has been missing, many of which should and could act as gateways into a vibrant city center," Melnychenko said.

Phoenix's Street Transportation Department staff and a consultant team are evaluating current conditions to identify more improvements.

Establishing a street car system, reducing parking lots and garages, adding bike lanes, expanding the bike share program and introducing more parallel parking are among priorities.

"Residents, workers and visitors to downtown Phoenix will become less dependent on the car as sustainable forms of transportation increase," Eigo said. "If this does not occur, downtown will become more polluted and gridlocked as Phoenix attempts to accommodate a rapidly growing population."

The city has not appropriated any money for the projects, Melnychenko said, and no cost estimates have been made.

It may take anywhere from less than five years to more than a decade to implement recommended changes, he said.

Study leaders hope to present findings to the downtown and transportation subcommittees to get final feedback before finalizing the study and taking it to the City Council this spring.

"After we finish the study, then we should take a hard look at the Capital Improvement Plan for the district," said Gallego, who sits on both subcommittees. "I'm especially expecting them to make recommendations about one-way streets becoming two-way streets."
     
     
  #5668  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2014, 5:11 PM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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Wow, a lot of great information in there.

The plan posted last week mentioned addressing the 7's between VB and Roosevelt in the next 5-10 years, but this article mentioned a few more ideas: pedestrian bridges or islands, widened sidewalks, reduced lanes (6 to 4), a raised median, landscaping, crossings, and lighting.

I hope that if they are indeed going to invest in making those sections of the road more friendly to pedestrian travel, that the pedestrian bridge option is dismissed; that seemed like a good compromise when the thought was that the 7's would never change. However, the street will be much more approachable at 4 lanes, with landscaping acting as a further safety buffer, that I think HAWK crossings should work just fine and keep pedestrians on the street, which is always optimal.

With residential infill already spilled over into Garfield, the Children's Museum, and the future pieces of the Phoenix Biomedical Campus, I think this was a necessary step. Excited to see how it impacts Garfield, and if even the plans for a road diet will get investment dollars flowing in anticipation?

This is also the first time I've heard anything about a potential streetcar system for Phoenix. I know the obvious would be VB and up Grand Ave, but I think there are some other options needing consideration; can streetcars cross light rail tracks? I don't know what an appropriate length is, but McDowell from 7th Ave to 16th St has a lot of potential, as of course does Camelback from Central to 24th/32nd St. Any thoughts?
     
     
  #5669  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2014, 10:04 PM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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I had been trying to get a better understanding of all the properties, their current uses, and current owners within the Warehouse District to try and figure out what's next for that area now that JSED is dead.

From what I see, it seems as though most of the potential for making the district a cohesive, organic hub of arts, music, dining, and nightlife has been pretty much destroyed, mostly due to:
1) SunMerc sitting empty; a Rock and Roll HOF branch could've provided an anchor 7 days a week for the district, and also been a catalyst for more live music venues and the like in a part of town that is predominantly sports-focused right now.
2) The destruction of the Madison and St James hotels erased two of the only buildings in the district that could've been renovated into affordable loft space; the arcade in the center could've served as a unique restaurant opening into the back where there was expansive open land and alleys that could've been used for dining, art exhibits, etc. and provided the perfect gateway from Jefferson into the Warehouse area.
3) The sheer amount of deadspace created by USAC, civic buildings, and multiple garages throughout the area.
4) Ballpark Apartments is utilizing 2 of the most interesting historic buildings left unharmed within their development for non-public uses. Had these been converted into cafes, bars, or other retail, it could've helped bring some life to the district.
5) The City's horrible planning decisions, like smacking miultiple jails, halfways houses, and monstrous garages throughout the area, ruining any consistent fabric.
6) Most of the existing building stock further from the sporting venues has already been renovated by ad agencies or other creative businesses, leaving fairly little left in terms of viable warehouses to adapt. Having such a business-focused district also supports the notion that creating a vibrant nightlife scene in the area isn't really feasible.

I don't think it's a terrible thing that businesses have renovated so many spaces for office use. I just think most us had something more eclectic in mind when picturing the district upon completion.

What do you guys see for the future of the warehouse district? Are there opportunities I'm missing toward creating some more active, or will it merely be a place filled with sports bars used on game day, and several offices for creative businesses with a few supporting residential and retail components to support those businesses?
     
     
  #5670  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2014, 11:04 PM
poconoboy61 poconoboy61 is offline
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FWIW, plywood is going up over the base windows of the Hotel Monroe. Maybe work is finally starting...
     
     
  #5671  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2014, 11:48 PM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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Has anyone been by the new Sheriff's office on 5th/Jackson? The following article is the closest I can find to the finished product:

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2013/12/joe_arpaio_mcso_new_headquarters_photos.php

Not a fan of this kind of architecture - see the new YMCA addition - but, another lot filled up is somewhat of a positive. However, I have to question whether such a low slung building was really the best bet/sustainable? Surely, there are other County services that need new digs or will in the near future? Would've been nice to see a small tower built instead for those reasons, but I guess Joe wasn't wanting to share.

Ideally, the services being handled across the way could've moved into this hypothetic tower, complete with underground parking, allowing the Freight building to be used by a more creative firm or turned into public space/retail and the monstrous garage demolished.

When was that garage built, btw? I'm trying to understand the hodge podge that is Jackson St and that garage is at the top of my "WTF" list. How could anyone have thought such a thing was a gold idea and allowed it to be built boggles my mind. Thanks for saving the 1-story historic depot, but the 10 story garage adjacent kind of over powers it to the point that you may as well have knocked it over for a taller building more in scale.

I shouldn't be surprised, but I hate how the city/count/state overtook this part of downtown. They already wrecked the area between downtown and the Capital, why'd they have to spread out terrible fortresses along Madison and Jackson? I see a beautiful building and then realize it's a rehab facility... I see a lot perfect for new lofts, and it's across from a jail.

In spite of the jail, the building on 4th/Jackson is beautiful and has great ground level retail potential leading to Union Station. It's too bad there's no residential density nearby, because Union Station would make a great marketplace, with cares and small restaurants in the other building and town square in the center with various merchants in temporary carts/kiosks. Instead, telecom is wasting both buildings for storage.

Last edited by Jjs5056; Mar 16, 2014 at 12:21 AM.
     
     
  #5672  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2014, 4:42 PM
soleri soleri is offline
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The story of the warehouse district is one more chapter in the Phoenix Book of Missed Opportunities. In the late 1980s, it was evolving into an arts district. Artists like Beatrice Moore and Tony Zahn had taken over old buildings, and the Ice House became a performance and gallery space. The vibe was, for a city as shallowly rooted as Phoenix, edgy and evocative. But here's the rub: art is for liberals. Downtown Phoenix, however, was happier playing host to sports' venues than galleries. It's always seemed to be 1968 in Phoenix - Richard Nixon running for president, Up with People on TV, the Ray Conniff singers on the radio, and Charter Government running the show in city government. So, when Maricopa County decided to put their Soviet-style jail down there, who was going to say no? There was no real bridge from the hippies to the people with money, let alone pull. Brian Kearney of The Downtown Phoenix Partnership wanted jobs there, which was understandable on its own terms. The real-estate industrial complex wanted big projects, not a bohemian quarter of restored antiques. And when one of the great older buildings became a telcom hotel, that pretty much was the final nail in the coffin. Moore and company departed to Grand Avenue, far enough away from the orbit of downtown's dim-bulb boosters.

Old buildings are worth their weight in gold. They give texture, interest, character, and good bones to the city lucky enough to have them. Phoenix had very few, and it squandered most of them for inert modernist crapola. How do you recover from such wanton destruction? Well, you pretend a lot. Like CityScape is "vital". Or Arizona Center is the "pulse" of downtown. Or the Convention Center's street presence makes up for its utter lack of connection to a real city. It's not a mystery how you do great cities. Europe has hundreds of them. In America, we killed ours in the name of mobility and parking. And we still think if we build enough high rises we'll make up for these acts of civic vandalism. We won't. It's like confusing golf courses for nature preserves. Good cities are organic and alive. Bad cities are sterile and dull. By the way, if you want to see a textbook example of these comments, go to downtown LA. It's suddenly hot. But it's not hot in the Bunker Hill area or those vast stretches of "high-rise opportunity" parcels. It's in the old city, still full of wonderful old buildings. It's a miracle they're still there. And that miracle is now the epicenter of downtown LA's rebirth.
     
     
  #5673  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2014, 7:07 PM
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The story of the warehouse district is one more chapter in the Phoenix Book of Missed Opportunities. In the late 1980s, it was evolving into an arts district. Artists like Beatrice Moore and Tony Zahn had taken over old buildings, and the Ice House became a performance and gallery space. The vibe was, for a city as shallowly rooted as Phoenix, edgy and evocative. But here's the rub: art is for liberals. Downtown Phoenix, however, was happier playing host to sports' venues than galleries. It's always seemed to be 1968 in Phoenix - Richard Nixon running for president, Up with People on TV, the Ray Conniff singers on the radio, and Charter Government running the show in city government. So, when Maricopa County decided to put their Soviet-style jail down there, who was going to say no? There was no real bridge from the hippies to the people with money, let alone pull. Brian Kearney of The Downtown Phoenix Partnership wanted jobs there, which was understandable on its own terms. The real-estate industrial complex wanted big projects, not a bohemian quarter of restored antiques. And when one of the great older buildings became a telcom hotel, that pretty much was the final nail in the coffin. Moore and company departed to Grand Avenue, far enough away from the orbit of downtown's dim-bulb boosters.

Old buildings are worth their weight in gold. They give texture, interest, character, and good bones to the city lucky enough to have them. Phoenix had very few, and it squandered most of them for inert modernist crapola. How do you recover from such wanton destruction? Well, you pretend a lot. Like CityScape is "vital". Or Arizona Center is the "pulse" of downtown. Or the Convention Center's street presence makes up for its utter lack of connection to a real city. It's not a mystery how you do great cities. Europe has hundreds of them. In America, we killed ours in the name of mobility and parking. And we still think if we build enough high rises we'll make up for these acts of civic vandalism. We won't. It's like confusing golf courses for nature preserves. Good cities are organic and alive. Bad cities are sterile and dull. By the way, if you want to see a textbook example of these comments, go to downtown LA. It's suddenly hot. But it's not hot in the Bunker Hill area or those vast stretches of "high-rise opportunity" parcels. It's in the old city, still full of wonderful old buildings. It's a miracle they're still there. And that miracle is now the epicenter of downtown LA's rebirth.
This is a great insight into downtown and the warehouse district's history. And I agree with you almost entirely. My only divergence from your point of view is that I actually do believe it is possible to bring urban and city life back to life, even in a place that has almost eradicated most of its past. It is a lot more difficult, since it is entirely true that cities must grow in an organic way, and building from scratch often produces the opposite. But perhaps one of the best examples of this is Vancouver. If you look at their core, there really isn't too much "old" left; yet they have become a very vibrant and urban city. Starting around the 80's, the city had a large push to build up their downtown (which also meant tearing down part of their history, like Phoenix did). Where they were smart is that unlike Phoenix, their main driver was not business. This business first mentality kills cities. They opted for not having mega projects, but rather a lot of mid-sized developments. And most of them were residential (to the point that now office space is Vancouver is severely needed, but space is very limited). They did not build massive towers, but rather small high-rises and mid-rises, and focused on creating attractive public space.

It is not too late for Phoenix. Since we could copy that idea and build a lot of small to middle-sized projects in all the available land around our downtown. And we could indeed get that organic feel (by not having one giant master plan, but rather a contribution from a bunch of different people). But that would take leadership that would be wiling to part from the "business-first" mantra; and that is where my optimism crumbles. Instead of giving huge tax breaks to the likes of CityScape, the city should be incentivizing those who want to build in small empty lots and punishing those who have empty land sitting idle. They should be looking at ways to open up financing for the smaller developers that are trying to do something cool in Phoenix (but who can't because if you are not a giant, it is really difficult to get money for your projects). Knowing our city officials though (some in a personal level), I know that this might be too much to ask, they are too worried about upsetting business leaders.
     
     
  #5674  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2014, 7:11 PM
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This is a great insight into downtown and the warehouse district's history. And I agree with you almost entirely. My only divergence from your point of view is that I actually do believe it is possible to bring urban and city life back to life, even in a place that has almost eradicated most of its past. It is a lot more difficult, since it is entirely true that cities must grow in an organic way, and building from scratch often produces the opposite. But perhaps one of the best examples of this is Vancouver. If you look at their core, there really isn't too much "old" left; yet they have become a very vibrant and urban city. Starting around the 80's, the city had a large push to build up their downtown (which also meant tearing down part of their history, like Phoenix did). Where they were smart is that unlike Phoenix, their main driver was not business. This business first mentality kills cities. They opted for not having mega projects, but rather a lot of mid-sized developments. And most of them were residential (to the point that now office space is Vancouver is severely needed, but space is very limited). They did not build massive towers, but rather small high-rises and mid-rises, and focused on creating attractive public space.

It is not too late for Phoenix. Since we could copy that idea and build a lot of small to middle-sized projects in all the available land around our downtown. And we could indeed get that organic feel (by not having one giant master plan, but rather a contribution from a bunch of different people). But that would take leadership that would be wiling to part from the "business-first" mantra; and that is where my optimism crumbles. Instead of giving huge tax breaks to the likes of CityScape, the city should be incentivizing those who want to build in small empty lots and punishing those who have empty land sitting idle. They should be looking at ways to open up financing for the smaller developers that are trying to do something cool in Phoenix (but who can't because if you are not a giant, it is really difficult to get money for your projects). Knowing our city officials though (some in a personal level), I know that this might be too much to ask, they are too worried about upsetting business leaders.
BTW, I'm not against business leaders, they are a very integral part of the success of our city. And they should be very much included in the equation. Most great cities have business leaders that are willing to invest into them. Seattle is a fantastic example, were the many corporations that are headquartered there have made an investment into the city. Unfortunately, Phoenix doesn't have that culture, and that is something that has to change in order for the city to thrive.
     
     
  #5675  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2014, 9:03 PM
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. But perhaps one of the best examples of this is Vancouver. If you look at their core, there really isn't too much "old" left; yet they have become a very vibrant and urban city. Starting around the 80's, the city had a large push to build up their downtown (which also meant tearing down part of their history, like Phoenix did). Where they were smart is that unlike Phoenix, their main driver was not business. This business first mentality kills cities. They opted for not having mega projects, but rather a lot of mid-sized developments. And most of them were residential (to the point that now office space is Vancouver is severely needed, but space is very limited). They did not build massive towers, but rather small high-rises and mid-rises, and focused on creating attractive public space.
Vancouver's best decison was simply to oppose all freeways within its city limits. It put its focus on mass transit (Phoenix - actually MAG - borrowed freely from its Sky Trains to advance its own failed Valtrans proposal in 1988). The net result is that Vancouver's urban texture was never devastated as it was in most other North American cities. Phoenix didn't have Vancouver's density, needless to say, and it's decision to retrofit a smallish downtown for cars, and then expand that downtown up Central Avenue, guaranteed that Phoenix urbanism would always be an uphill effort. These mistakes are understandable given that Phoenix's meteoric growth spiral came after the golden age of city-making, that is, following WWII.

But Vancouver is blessed in a way very few cities in the world. It has one of the world's finest settings - water on three sides of its downtown with mountains framing it to its north. This is seemingly outside the scope of our concern - what can downtown Phoenix possibly do about its lack of a natural focal point? - but it does serve to illustrate another civic failing from the late 80s, the Rio Salado proposal. Tempe kept their share alive, and Town Lake now solidifies Tempe's claim to have the one truly urban downtown in the metropolitan area.

You are right that Vancouver doesn't have the great old building stock of other cities (e.g., Seattle, San Francisco, Montreal, Toronto), but it does have some stunning relics, particularly in its "old town" (Gastown) and industrial warehouse area (Yaletown). Vancouver has been justly criticized for its lack of really imaginative architecture, however. This is beginning to change for the better, but it's still dispiriting to see all the bland, lookalike condo towers crowding False Creek and Coal Harbor.

For Phoenix, there is no catch-up game because there's no business/stewardship class that can galvanize the community on behalf of a strong, economically dynamic core. Make no mistake: for all the happy talk that comes from politicians and public information officers, this is a huge economic development issue for the metropolitan area. The proof, ironically, is the utter and complete absence of this conversation in the public square. Phoenix is being left behind in the dust, and the only conversation permitted on this topic is denial. With people like Grady Gammage, Jr and Bob Robb setting the tone, the dominant attitude is more deflection than concern. Every bad decision we make compounds equally bad decisions from the past to the point there is simply no conscious strategy for dealing with this problem aside from the usual cosmetic kind. If you're old enough to remember the Valley National Bank, you'll understand exactly what our issue is - the absence of strong hands-on leadership that can give this city an actual central nervous system.
     
     
  #5676  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2014, 9:22 PM
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Originally Posted by soleri View Post
Vancouver's best decison was simply to oppose all freeways within its city limits. It put its focus on mass transit (Phoenix - actually MAG - borrowed freely from its Sky Trains to advance its own failed Valtrans proposal in 1988). The net result is that Vancouver's urban texture was never devastated as it was in most other North American cities. Phoenix didn't have Vancouver's density, needless to say, and it's decision to retrofit a smallish downtown for cars, and then expand that downtown up Central Avenue, guaranteed that Phoenix urbanism would always be an uphill effort. These mistakes are understandable given that Phoenix's meteoric growth spiral came after the golden age of city-making, that is, following WWII.

But Vancouver is blessed in a way very few cities in the world. It has one of the world's finest settings - water on three sides of its downtown with mountains framing it to its north. This is seemingly outside the scope of our concern - what can downtown Phoenix possibly do about its lack of a natural focal point? - but it does serve to illustrate another civic failing from the late 80s, the Rio Salado proposal. Tempe kept their share alive, and Town Lake now solidifies Tempe's claim to have the one truly urban downtown in the metropolitan area.

You are right that Vancouver doesn't have the great old building stock of other cities (e.g., Seattle, San Francisco, Montreal, Toronto), but it does have some stunning relics, particularly in its "old town" (Gastown) and industrial warehouse area (Yaletown). Vancouver has been justly criticized for its lack of really imaginative architecture, however. This is beginning to change for the better, but it's still dispiriting to see all the bland, lookalike condo towers crowding False Creek and Coal Harbor.

For Phoenix, there is no catch-up game because there's no business/stewardship class that can galvanize the community on behalf of a strong, economically dynamic core. Make no mistake: for all the happy talk that comes from politicians and public information officers, this is a huge economic development issue for the metropolitan area. The proof, ironically, is the utter and complete absence of this conversation in the public square. Phoenix is being left behind in the dust, and the only conversation permitted on this topic is denial. With people like Grady Gammage, Jr and Bob Robb setting the tone, the dominant attitude is more deflection than concern. Every bad decision we make compounds equally bad decisions from the past to the point there is simply no conscious strategy for dealing with this problem aside from the usual cosmetic kind. If you're old enough to remember the Valley National Bank, you'll understand exactly what our issue is - the absence of strong hands-on leadership that can give this city an actual central nervous system.
Great points. Although, I think that the development of the river might have just ended up being a hindrance for our downtown. Tempe's downtown is right next to the Salt River, so the park becomes an incredible anchor for growth. Unfortunately, Phoenix (like many American cities) decided not only to turn its back to the river, but also develop its core away from it. Unlike Tempe's plan (or even Dallas' new attempts) to reconnect, Phoenix would have probably ended up having an other island of development disconnected from the rest of downtown. The river probably would have become and anchor, but the distance to downtown is too great. We might have ended up with another Central Ave. effect, where the urbanization is spread too thin. The fact that Phoenix spread so vastly and rapidly is a sin we will be paying for several decades.
     
     
  #5677  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2014, 3:20 AM
ASUSunDevil ASUSunDevil is offline
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Arquitect - I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the design of the new Sherriff's Office Building.

As a fan of "modern", there is something about the look of this building that isn't sitting right with me. I will say that I have yet to see the finished product in person...
     
     
  #5678  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2014, 4:56 AM
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Arquitect Arquitect is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil View Post
Arquitect - I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the design of the new Sherriff's Office Building.

As a fan of "modern", there is something about the look of this building that isn't sitting right with me. I will say that I have yet to see the finished product in person...
I went down there and checked it out a few months ago, and I can say I'm not impressed. Although for different reasons than Jj (since I do like the YMCA addition, and I am a fan of contemporary architecture). Personally, I don't think the height is that bad for that particular area and the realities of government. The Sheriff was not going to share a building with other elements of the county bureaucracy, and a large building was not necessary. Bringing many different government agencies together doesn't always pan out, as Tucson has recently discovered with their new courthouse. There are several other crucial areas I would focus on getting denser development in before this particular spot.

What I don't like about it is that it seems like they had a grand idea, and it got very watered down. The quality of the materials looks cheap. For instance, the metal and glass portion sits atop a stucco box. I believe that a portion of that box is a building that was salvaged; although I am not certain, it just appears that way because there really is very little unity between the top and the bottom. That stucco looks poorly done, the same type of finish you'd see in a cookie cutter development.

The top portion is not as bad. I really like the idea of shading metal screens in our climate, and have incorporated them into my own projects. And I like how it opens up to the north to maximize the use of daylight. But as with the rest of the building, it seems like they went with the cheap version. My guess is that the architect had to value engineer a lot of their design away, and this is what they were left with. I wouldn't call it an ugly building, but rather a mediocre building.
     
     
  #5679  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2014, 5:28 PM
ASUSunDevil ASUSunDevil is offline
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I'm also a fan of the Y addition.

The shapes are a little peculiar, but its definitely the stucco that took the Sherriff's Building from looking really nice to really mediocre. How the hell did they manage to screw up a $93 million dollar budget? Ugh.
     
     
  #5680  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2014, 3:57 AM
BLeagues BLeagues is offline
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New condo building N Central

There's a group proposing to build a 70 some unit condo development on North Central between the Artisan Lofts on Central condominium complex and the Spaghetti Factory restaurant.

I was able to see some preliminary drawings. But could not take any pictures of the planned development. Its a five story building with the bottom floor being the parking garage. A courtyard (above the parking garage) will face the current courtyard of the Artisan Lofts community. The parking and homeowner entrance of the building will be off of Central ave. Their will be one and two bedroom units with a price range starting around $175k going to the upper $300's.

The developers, from Chile, (I forget their name) hope to begin construction before the end of 2014.

The group has been to city hall with their proposal already.
     
     
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