Huntsville updates

[downtownhsvguy]

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative

Huntsville needs to do what Biloxi is doing and that is borrow state funding to build the new stadium. I spend a lot of time in downtown and there is really only two realistic options that a 9,000-seat multi-use stadium could go. Below are two maps of the downtown areas for a proposed stadium location.

OPTION 1


OPTION 2


Option 1 is the best ideal and less expensive option. Perfect location as it sits adjacent to the VBC and would allow the city to relocate the projects to the west(north) of the stadium for future mix-use developments. This could be a great location for an expanded downtown business and entertainment district. Plus the downtown skyline would be visible from the stands on the third base side. The only obstacle is that the land is owned by Cocoa-Cola and the city would have to buy it. Although, a deal could be reached to allow Coke to have outright naming rights in return for the property. This scenario would save the city millions.

With having a downtown stadium, area clubs, restaurants and businesses would see significant growth and in a quick time frame. There's already a nice boom of downtown living with all the condos going up.

By having a multi-use stadium, it allows the city to bring high school football and outdoor summer concerts to the area, which means a lot of revenue.

Option 1 seems to be the best. Using the momentum of the VBC and hockey, would help the stars (or whatever team) along with any other development that comes long for the ride.. The area would benefit greatly from the investment. I would say that some housing element would need to be incorporated along with some retail.

Option 2 has some merits.. It would definitely would help push that side of town to greater success and ensure that the twichenham(sp) development.

I would be against having a football/baseball stadium.. I have seen this concept competed in other cities and it doesn't really work.. it does not lend for a good experience for baseball...

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Either way, a new stadium needs to be on the way. I honestly don't think the Stars are going to leave; it'd be much easier to pull that team out of Jackson, TN.

I think there's a reason the city brought Chad Emerson to town; I don't think they would have done it if they knew the Stars were leaving.

EDIT: How does Jackson, TN even have a Macy's?!

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by quattordici

Either way, a new stadium needs to be on the way. I honestly don't think the Stars are going to leave; it'd be much easier to pull that team out of Jackson, TN.

I think there's a reason the city brought Chad Emerson to town; I don't think they would have done it if they knew the Stars were leaving.

EDIT: How does Jackson, TN even have a Macy's?!

yeah it would be interesting to know who reached out to who on Emerson. It may have been a happy coincidence since Big Spring Partners (Huntsville Downtown) was looking for a new president.
There are mediocre Macy's around.
You just have to think big things are coming downtown..should anyway.

[HSVTiger]

more dancing by aldot, hey Cooper Huntsville is so far behind due to the inept agency you run that trying to justify the mistakes won't work..
aldot will kill any economic progress that this region is trying to generate. No solution, no answers, no worries.

Alabama Department of Transportation Director John Cooper said he agrees with Mayor Tommy Battle that Huntsville needs more and better roads. (Enough said, then do it)

But Cooper has a problem with the mayor suggesting - as he did in a news conference last week -- that Madison County is not getting a fair share of road construction dollars from Montgomery.

During a wide-ranging Tuesday interview with The Huntsville Times/AL.com, Cooper said Madison County is home to 1.84 percent of Alabama's total state-maintained road lane miles. However, the county received 3.26 percent of road construction contracts awarded statewide by DOT in the past five years - $142.3 million total - and 3.06 percent of all awarded contracts, or $221.9 million, over the past decade.

Madison County has also done well on what DOT calls authorizations: road projects green-lighted for engineering, right-of-way acquisition and utility relocation prior to construction.

Cooper said 3.3 percent of statewide road project authorizations over the past five years - totaling $165.3 million - have been for Madison County. Looking out 10 years, it's 3.06 percent and $306 million. The 20-year figure is 3.10 percent and $543.8 million.

"When you look at these numbers," said Cooper, "we don't believe you can make a case that Madison County has been treated unfairly."(look at the last 40 years)

Battle has become an outspoken critic of ALDOT's revised 10-year road enhancement plan, released in May, which delays construction of Memorial Parkway overpasses at Lily Flagg and Byrd Spring Road until 2019. Other projects - including extending Interstate 565 past Shields Road and four-laning Alabama 53 to Ardmore, Tenn. - were taken out of the plan entirely due to lack of funding.

During a news conference alongside the Parkway last week, the mayor urged Huntsville residents to contact Cooper and Gov. Robert Bentley about the Lily Flagg and Byrd Spring overpasses. A second "Restore Our Roads" event is planned for Wednesday afternoon to lobby for quicker action on a planned Parkway overpass at Mastin Lake Road.
Battle and other elected leaders have long complained that Madison County produces far more gasoline tax revenue than it gets back from the state in the form of road construction projects. Cooper shed some light on how that process works.

DOT receives only about 55 percent of the state's total gasoline tax revenues, he said. Nearly 45 percent goes directly to counties and cities; the Alabama Department of Revenue also gets a slice.

Cooper said DOT cannot give Madison County back 80 percent of locally-generated gas taxes because the agency receives less than that to begin with. An 80 percent gas tax return pledge crafted by local officials and signed by Bentley while campaigning for governor in 2010 was "an impossibility," he said.

"The people who devised the promise should have known it was an impossibility," said Cooper.


Of the Madison County-generated gas taxes that DOT actually received, he said the agency "sent back to Huntsville more than 80 percent" in both 2010 and 2011.
HSV Times

This is the beginning of some serious road rage wars, now that the Mayor has called them out it's nice to see alont try and justify their inaction on anything. Mr. Cooper has adopted this mess and doesn't know what to do other than say no money. Huntsville has been lied to for decades with the promise of next year we will start only to see the dollars and projects go elsewhere, (Has County Line interchange started yet??). I expect aldont to punish Madison county even further now thatthey have been forced to answer questions. HOW DARE YOU CITY OF HUNTSVILLE question the ALMIGHTY ALDOT!!
and now
Alabama Rep. Phil Williams says he has a plan to force Montgomery to show taxpayers where all the money goes.

But the Alabama Department of Transportation says there isn't that much money being spent, and that the contract costs are already online.

"The plan will be to force state government to be open and transparent with road project dollars on a county-by-county basis," said Williams, calling his online reporting requirement the Alabama Transportation Accountability Act of 2014.

He said his bill, which would not come up until session next year, would require the Alabama Department of Transportation to update a web site each month, reporting where money was spent in the preceding weeks. "So if Mayor (Tommy) Battle sees he loses a project, if some other project suddenly sees a plus up, it will help him understand how to combat the problem," said Williams.

"In the end of the day, it's me fighting city hall, but I think I can win this battle," said Williams

But John Cooper, the director of the Alabama Department of Transportation, says that's not the problem, that no one is being cheated, because almost no road work is going forward. The state has scaled back from a $4 billion 5-year plan to a meager $1.5 billion 10-year plan for major improvements.



"We have no fundamental quibble with (Mayor Battle's) argument that more money is needed," said Cooper late Tuesday, having met with Huntsville officials to explain that the state doesn't have the money for all the road work that has long sat on the drawing board.


Williams this afternoon said too often in the past those with pull in Montgomery won road projects, sometimes through the ties to the governor's office. "These funds are critical to the growth areas of Alabama," he said of Madison County.

[David1502]

Originally Posted by quattordici

EDIT: How does Jackson, TN even have a Macy's?!

The reason that Jackson, TN has a Macy's goes back to 1967 when the Memphis based department store called Goldsmith's was looking to expand beyond Memphis, they built a Goldsmith's in Jackson's Old Hickory Mall. Later Federated Stores, the owner of Goldsmith's decided to rebrand all of their various regional chains under the name Macy's. This occurred in 2003.

The Macy's in Bowling Green, KY fell under the Macy's name under similar circumstances when the owners of Castner Knotts (Mercantile Stores) chose to sell their Nashville area stores, Macy's purchased them and put them under the Macy's name. Too bad the Alabama locations of Castner Knott were not included in that deal - Dillard's instead chose to purchase them.

As HSVTiger said, the Macy's in Jackson, TN is mediocre. This is true as each Macy store carries whatever quality of merchandise that its local market will demand. The flagship Macy's at Herald Square in NY carries brands you won't see at any other Macy's - they even have a Luis Vuitton boutique carrying thousand dollar and up bags and luggage.

The Belk at Parkway Place in HSV carries better brands than most Macy's.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by David1502

The reason that Jackson, TN has a Macy's goes back to 1967 when the Memphis based department store called Goldsmith's was looking to expand beyond Memphis, they built a Goldsmith's in Jackson's Old Hickory Mall. Later Federated Stores, the owner of Goldsmith's decided to rebrand all of their various regional chains under the name Macy's. This occurred in 2003.

The Macy's in Bowling Green, KY fell under the Macy's name under similar circumstances when the owners of Castner Knotts (Mercantile Stores) chose to sell their Nashville area stores, Macy's purchased them and put them under the Macy's name. Too bad the Alabama locations of Castner Knott were not included in that deal - Dillard's instead chose to purchase them.

As HSVTiger said, the Macy's in Jackson, TN is mediocre. This is true as each Macy store carries whatever quality of merchandise that its local market will demand. The flagship Macy's at Herald Square in NY carries brands you won't see at any other Macy's - they even have a Luis Vuitton boutique carrying thousand dollar and up bags and luggage.

The Belk at Parkway Place in HSV carries better brands than most Macy's.

Miss Castner Knott, but JC Penny at Madison Square is pretty good store similar to them.

[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by quattordici

Either way, a new stadium needs to be on the way. I honestly don't think the Stars are going to leave; it'd be much easier to pull that team out of Jackson, TN.

I haven't been to a Diamond Jaxx/Generals game since I was in high school, but the team is now owned by a local ownership group and partially by a Nashville group. They might be willing to sell the team, but I doubt it. I will say that attendance is somewhat better now and has been the past few years that what it used to be.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

more dancing by aldot, hey Cooper Huntsville is so far behind due to the inept agency you run that trying to justify the mistakes won't work..
aldot will kill any economic progress that this region is trying to generate. No solution, no answers, no worries.

Alabama Department of Transportation Director John Cooper said he agrees with Mayor Tommy Battle that Huntsville needs more and better roads. (Enough said, then do it)

But Cooper has a problem with the mayor suggesting - as he did in a news conference last week -- that Madison County is not getting a fair share of road construction dollars from Montgomery.

During a wide-ranging Tuesday interview with The Huntsville Times/AL.com, Cooper said Madison County is home to 1.84 percent of Alabama's total state-maintained road lane miles. However, the county received 3.26 percent of road construction contracts awarded statewide by DOT in the past five years - $142.3 million total - and 3.06 percent of all awarded contracts, or $221.9 million, over the past decade.

Madison County has also done well on what DOT calls authorizations: road projects green-lighted for engineering, right-of-way acquisition and utility relocation prior to construction.

Cooper said 3.3 percent of statewide road project authorizations over the past five years - totaling $165.3 million - have been for Madison County. Looking out 10 years, it's 3.06 percent and $306 million. The 20-year figure is 3.10 percent and $543.8 million.

"When you look at these numbers," said Cooper, "we don't believe you can make a case that Madison County has been treated unfairly."(look at the last 40 years)

Battle has become an outspoken critic of ALDOT's revised 10-year road enhancement plan, released in May, which delays construction of Memorial Parkway overpasses at Lily Flagg and Byrd Spring Road until 2019. Other projects - including extending Interstate 565 past Shields Road and four-laning Alabama 53 to Ardmore, Tenn. - were taken out of the plan entirely due to lack of funding.

During a news conference alongside the Parkway last week, the mayor urged Huntsville residents to contact Cooper and Gov. Robert Bentley about the Lily Flagg and Byrd Spring overpasses. A second "Restore Our Roads" event is planned for Wednesday afternoon to lobby for quicker action on a planned Parkway overpass at Mastin Lake Road.
Battle and other elected leaders have long complained that Madison County produces far more gasoline tax revenue than it gets back from the state in the form of road construction projects. Cooper shed some light on how that process works.

DOT receives only about 55 percent of the state's total gasoline tax revenues, he said. Nearly 45 percent goes directly to counties and cities; the Alabama Department of Revenue also gets a slice.

Cooper said DOT cannot give Madison County back 80 percent of locally-generated gas taxes because the agency receives less than that to begin with. An 80 percent gas tax return pledge crafted by local officials and signed by Bentley while campaigning for governor in 2010 was "an impossibility," he said.

"The people who devised the promise should have known it was an impossibility," said Cooper.


Of the Madison County-generated gas taxes that DOT actually received, he said the agency "sent back to Huntsville more than 80 percent" in both 2010 and 2011.
HSV Times

This is the beginning of some serious road rage wars, now that the Mayor has called them out it's nice to see alont try and justify their inaction on anything. Mr. Cooper has adopted this mess and doesn't know what to do other than say no money. Huntsville has been lied to for decades with the promise of next year we will start only to see the dollars and projects go elsewhere, (Has County Line interchange started yet??). I expect aldont to punish Madison county even further now thatthey have been forced to answer questions. HOW DARE YOU CITY OF HUNTSVILLE question the ALMIGHTY ALDOT!!
and now
Alabama Rep. Phil Williams says he has a plan to force Montgomery to show taxpayers where all the money goes.

But the Alabama Department of Transportation says there isn't that much money being spent, and that the contract costs are already online.

"The plan will be to force state government to be open and transparent with road project dollars on a county-by-county basis," said Williams, calling his online reporting requirement the Alabama Transportation Accountability Act of 2014.

He said his bill, which would not come up until session next year, would require the Alabama Department of Transportation to update a web site each month, reporting where money was spent in the preceding weeks. "So if Mayor (Tommy) Battle sees he loses a project, if some other project suddenly sees a plus up, it will help him understand how to combat the problem," said Williams.

"In the end of the day, it's me fighting city hall, but I think I can win this battle," said Williams

But John Cooper, the director of the Alabama Department of Transportation, says that's not the problem, that no one is being cheated, because almost no road work is going forward. The state has scaled back from a $4 billion 5-year plan to a meager $1.5 billion 10-year plan for major improvements.



"We have no fundamental quibble with (Mayor Battle's) argument that more money is needed," said Cooper late Tuesday, having met with Huntsville officials to explain that the state doesn't have the money for all the road work that has long sat on the drawing board.


Williams this afternoon said too often in the past those with pull in Montgomery won road projects, sometimes through the ties to the governor's office. "These funds are critical to the growth areas of Alabama," he said of Madison County.

Since we are screwed anyway grill them on poor design, poor signage and lack therof. They will love to pull out government regs but it must be a different book for this state cause others seem to do fine.

[huntsvillefan]

Is the problem a lack of local control or say? If so, how much does our glorious state constitution wrestle control from us in this matter? Just wondering if there is a connection.

[ThatGuy]

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative

Huntsville needs to do what Biloxi is doing and that is borrow state funding to build the new stadium. I spend a lot of time in downtown and there is really only two realistic options that a 9,000-seat multi-use stadium could go. Below are two maps of the downtown areas for a proposed stadium location.

OPTION 1


OPTION 2


Option 1 is the best ideal and less expensive option. Perfect location as it sits adjacent to the VBC and would allow the city to relocate the projects to the west(north) of the stadium for future mix-use developments. This could be a great location for an expanded downtown business and entertainment district. Plus the downtown skyline would be visible from the stands on the third base side. The only obstacle is that the land is owned by Cocoa-Cola and the city would have to buy it. Although, a deal could be reached to allow Coke to have outright naming rights in return for the property. This scenario would save the city millions.

With having a downtown stadium, area clubs, restaurants and businesses would see significant growth and in a quick time frame. There's already a nice boom of downtown living with all the condos going up.

By having a multi-use stadium, it allows the city to bring high school football and outdoor summer concerts to the area, which means a lot of revenue.

I like either site really. My suggestion would be to move the parking slightly further away from the stadium. That generates foot traffic for potential stores to capitalize on. I would much rather have a Wrigley Field vibe than an Turner Field vibe.

[OCA REP]

Originally Posted by arkitekte

I haven't been to a Diamond Jaxx/Generals game since I was in high school, but the team is now owned by a local ownership group and partially by a Nashville group. They might be willing to sell the team, but I doubt it. I will say that attendance is somewhat better now and has been the past few years that what it used to be.

I recall reading that the worst supported team in the Southern League was the Huntsville Stars. It is crazy that there has not been local support for improving their venue until another city is trying to lure them away, but that's how it happens and Biloxi is primed at the moment.

I keep hearing that when it comes to relocations, the Southern League does not allow a team to break their current lease with a ballpark. The stadium lease in Huntsville is through 2014... the stadium lease in Jackson is through 2021. Biloxi wants their new park ready for 2014. Draw your own conclusions.

There is a possibility that MLB could approve the move of the Stars to Biloxi and then put a Single A team in its place. I would not be in favor of that because there is a good in-state rivalry between Huntsville, Birmingham, Montgomery, and Mobile. Not sure if all teams do this, but one of the benefits of having our season tickets for the Montgomery Biscuits is free attendance when the Biscuits are playing at another stadium in the Southern League. Great opportunity to check out the new parks in Pensacola, Birmingham, maybe Biloxo... or maybe Huntsville?

Time will certainly tell.

[TimCity2000]

i like option 1... easier access, visibility. option 2 seems ripe for development for other more dense infill.

btw, i haven't hear the name CASTNER KNOTT in years!

[Huntsvillenative]

I was downtown this morning and spoke to a gentleman outside of the Mayor's office and we talked about the stadium issue with the current JDS and the threat of the Stars leaving town if a new one isn't built. He says it's a very serious issue but that he's confident that the city officials will get a new stadium proposal done for downtown, that they are working on it. I mentioned that I had been pushing for the new stadium to be on the corner of Clinton and Monroe and he said "that's the plan".

Now, that being said, I have also spoken to locals around town who are against the idea of spending tax dollars on a new stadium. They think it would cost less to just renovate the current JDS. But the truth is that it's too old and the structure of the stadium's design is the biggest problem. For instance, the concourse is closed off to the view of the field. All modern minor league stadiums feature easy access to concessions without missing a single pitch. To bring the stadium up to par with all newer modeled stadiums would cost almost as much as it would to build a new one. At least $15-20 million or so, just to renovate.

Below are some comparisons from the Joe to the newer more modernized minor league parks.

Joe Davis Concourse





Coolray Field Gwinette, GA



Now the stadium design from above.

Joe Davis Stadium






Coolray Field





Notice at how much different the architectural designing is from the two. At the Joe, you have nowhere to go quickly when it rains or storms. You have to high tale it back to the middle entrance of the concourse. With the new stadiums, the concourses are just feet away to get up under. Also, notice at how the concession stand area is facing the field and not behind the stands, but are under the press box and suites areas. And notice at the Joe the seats (bleachers) go straight down the line whereas with Coolray Field, the seats (chair-backs) go in an angle so that you are always facing the middle of the infield and not facing towards left field.

Another thing about the Joe is the seating capacity. Sure it seats up to 10,000, but it only has about 3,500 chair-back seats while the rest are all out of date hard uncomfortable bleachers. Also, there are no picnic areas for groups or families to relax ad enjoy the day or night at the park. Almost all new stadiums have this. Check out this picnic area for fans at Citibank Ballpark in Texas.





One thing that the Joe lacks is the ability to walk around the entire stadium without ever having to go out of the gates, or green space to relax and stretch out on a blanket. This is a feature at most newer minor league fields, and will be featured with the new Biloxi stadium. An added amenity for them to use towards luring in a new team that the Joe doesn't have in its argument to stay.

Check out this rendering of the new Regions Field in Birmingham and notice at how it goes all the way around 9360 degrees) and is very fan friendly with everything at your fingertips.





These types of amenities in a new downtown stadium is what will get people coming back to Stars baseball as well as bring people and money to downtown. Not a renovated old outdated Joe away from any retail developments. And the new stadium does not have be as big or cost as much as Regions Field or Autozone Park in Memphis. A nice 7,000 to 9,000 seat stadium would be perfect for the market and the fanbase. Mayor Battle has projected that a new downtown stadium of 5,000 would run about $17 million and $20 million for a 6,000 seat stadium. So a 7,000 seater would cost about $23 million while a bigger 9,000 seater would cost about $29-30 million. And that doesn't include cost of land, relocation of Coke plant and Searcy homes or parking space. So when you add in all of the other costs, you're looking at a $40 million dollar stdium. But it's needed!

It doesn't have to be fancy. Just entertaining and worthy of coming out to. In this case, size matters more than looks. The bigger and more elaborate the better and the more people will come out to it. To save cost, the exterior could be an old school red brick complexion which would reduce the price for construction. Check out the exterior of Autozone Park in Memphis. This would be gorgeous along Clinton Avenue.







Btw, for those wondering how big a 7,000 seat stadium would look, here is Canwest Global Park in Winnipeg, a 7,000 seat minor league stadium.







Does anyone still think renovating the Joe opposed to a state-of-the-art facility that will generate millions is the way to go, just to save spending? I think not.

[HSVTiger]

great job Huntsvillenative.
a new stadium downtown is the only option. I think we will see several proposals revealed before the end of the year or by spring.
Cities that have done this are all successful I do believe.
It's time for Huntsville to take some bold steps, of course there is the usual bunch that will scream against it but when you live in your mom's basement it's easy to cry about things that they wouldn't participate in anyway.
C'mon Huntsville lets break out and reach the next level of great American cities.

[Huntsvillenative]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

great job Huntsvillenative.
a new stadium downtown is the only option. I think we will see several proposals revealed before the end of the year or by spring.
Cities that have done this are all successful I do believe.
It's time for Huntsville to take some bold steps, of course there is the usual bunch that will scream against it but when you live in your mom's basement it's easy to cry about things that they wouldn't participate in anyway.
C'mon Huntsville lets break out and reach the next level of great American cities.

Thanks and I totally agree! I am gonna be on this pushing for it like a tick that won't let go.

[JuanHunt]

The owners of the Coke plant property have an offer of $11million which the city will have to match.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by JuanHunt

The owners of the Coke plant property have an offer of $11million which the city will have to match.

Maybe that could/is part of the overall proposal. In any case it would be an opportunity to widen Clinton from west of the Parkway to Monroe St and make it a landscaped Blvd.

[downtownhsvguy]

Originally Posted by JuanHunt

The owners of the Coke plant property have an offer of $11million which the city will have to match.

Do you know who the bidder is? The city should do what it takes to control that piece of land..

Do you know if it is someone that will actually develop something on it within a reasonable amount of time?

[ThatGuy]

Originally Posted by downtownhsvguy

Do you know who the bidder is? The city should do what it takes to control that piece of land..

Do you know if it is someone that will actually develop something on it within a reasonable amount of time?

Could be a fake offer to drive up the bid from the city. I don't think the city should overpay for that land.

[Huntsvillenative]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Could be a fake offer to drive up the bid from the city. I don't think the city should overpay for that land.

The city cannot afford to let this get screwed up and lose that land to another developer, no matter what they may have planned for the property. The stadium's only true fit downtown is on Clinton.

It could be a fake offer to bump the land value. But I'm sure the city officials will do their homework and research to see if there is a real offer or not before jumping to conclusions. From my understanding, there's more support now than ever before from officials towards a new downtown stadium. Apparently they are finally seeing the light and the potential that it could do for economical growth in the downtown district.