Highways in Canada

[eemy]

Also, the TCH completely misses Toronto, diverting off Hwy 400 at Hwy 12 and then heading east on Hwy 7 to Ottawa.

It's pretty clear that it's not suppose to be equivalent to an Interstate system. Our version of federalism makes it pretty clear that highway are provincial responsibilities and the configuration of our population in a strip along the southern border means that a national highway system is also kind of pointless too.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by vid

I can't find it now! But I do remember reading an article with comments from Richard Harvey and Michael Gravelle about the province working on designing a secondary route south of Nipigon near the hydro towers.

This fall, the province will also move forward with a formal route planning study and Environmental Assessment for an emergency detour route. This is expected to take approximately 18 months to complete. While our government has full confidence that the retrofit, once complete, will ensure that the bridge is safe for all users, this detour route would provide an alternate option for local residents and businesses in an emergency.

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2016/09/joint-statement-on-nipigon-river-bridge.html

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

This isn't a grave national problem, but I always thought that Canada's inability to keep a standard TCH designation all the way through was a sign of how fragmented our country was.

In every other country, the national highway is actually a system of major roads, such as the US highway system (e.g. US-101), Interstate highway system and the Autobahn/Motorway/Autoroute systems in European countries along with their national highways. In the US, they're maintained by the state, but they still have the same designation. If you cross from Califronia into Oregon on I-5, it's maintained by Oregon but it's still designated I-5.

In Canada, the national highway "system" is, more often than not, just one road, loosely designated.

On that vain there's also the clusterf*ck of a "county road" and "regional road" system within Ontario. You get numbers that change at county borders (e.g. Peel Regional Road 7 and Dufferin County Road 18), numbers that get duplicated with nearby provincial highways (e.g. Highway 6 and several separate roads called County Road 6), and numbers that get duplicated with those in nearby counties but are not connected (e.g. Middlesex and Oxford County Road 16). The numbers are also largely redundant in urban areas.

Also not a grave problem, but I've had enough car passengers over the years who think I've taken a wrong turn because of these issues to tell me the average driver can't figure it out.

[Mister F]

lol some of you think it makes no sense to have a highway change number when it crosses a provincial border. Amateurs. Ontario's regional roads will make your head spin.

Originally Posted by manny_santos

On that vain there's also the clusterf*ck of a "county road" and "regional road" system within Ontario. You get numbers that change at county borders (e.g. Peel Regional Road 7 and Dufferin County Road 18), numbers that get duplicated with nearby provincial highways (e.g. Highway 6 and several separate roads called County Road 6), and numbers that get duplicated with those in nearby counties but are not connected (e.g. Middlesex and Oxford County Road 16). The numbers are also largely redundant in urban areas.

Also not a grave problem, but I've had enough car passengers over the years who think I've taken a wrong turn because of these issues to tell me the average driver can't figure it out.

Not to mention that some counties and regions have a provincial highway and a county/regional road of the same number. And in some very special cases they intersect. How many confused tourists have stumbled across the intersection of 7 and 7 and wondered if they were at the nexus of the universe? Or tried to follow Highway 6 just to find that it intersected with another 6? That's some Twilight Zone shit right there.

Other provinces have the good sense to have even municipally owned highways be part of a coordinated provincial numbering system.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by vid

I can't find it now! But I do remember reading an article with comments from Richard Harvey and Michael Gravelle about the province working on designing a secondary route south of Nipigon near the hydro towers.

Too f'ng funny - it will cost at least as much as the current bridge! There is a reason that the bridge is where it is - the valley is quite steep and very unstable soils then wide and marshy. A quick look at the river near the hydro towers and it's 450 m across.

Here is the best shot I have looking towards the bay ...

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Mister F

lol some of you think it makes no sense to have a highway change number when it crosses a provincial border. Amateurs. Ontario's regional roads will make your head spin.


Not to mention that some counties and regions have a provincial highway and a county/regional road of the same number. And in some very special cases they intersect. How many confused tourists have stumbled across the intersection of 7 and 7 and wondered if they were at the nexus of the universe? Or tried to follow Highway 6 just to find that it intersected with another 6? That's some Twilight Zone shit right there.

Other provinces have the good sense to have even municipally owned highways be part of a coordinated provincial numbering system.

In Alberta I believe the "secondary highway" system was originally owned by the municipalities they ran through, but were taken over by the province some time ago.

Not sure how numbered secondary systems are administered in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland & Labrador.

Another issue is widely varying road and winter maintenance standards from one county/region to another. In winter particularly, you can be on a major rural road and go from a clear, salted road to an unplowed, slippery road just because you've crossed from one county to another. Not to mention there's no reporting of winter road conditions for non-provincial roads.

A couple of jurisdictions have ditched a lot of the regional road numbers. Hamilton got rid of most of them about 12 years ago, with the exception of some former provincial highways and at least one rural route that leads into Niagara Region, and Ottawa ditched all the numbers on roads inside the Greenbelt except for 174 (former Hwy 17).

[speedog]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

In Alberta I believe the "secondary highway" system was originally owned by the municipalities they ran through, but were taken over by the province some time ago.

Not sure how numbered secondary systems are administered in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland & Labrador.

Another issue is widely varying road and winter maintenance standards from one county/region to another. In winter particularly, you can be on a major rural road and go from a clear, salted road to an unplowed, slippery road just because you've crossed from one county to another. Not to mention there's no reporting of winter road conditions for non-provincial roads.

A couple of jurisdictions have ditched a lot of the regional road numbers. Hamilton got rid of most of them about 12 years ago, with the exception of some former provincial highways and at least one rural route that leads into Niagara Region, and Ottawa ditched all the numbers on roads inside the Greenbelt except for 174 (former Hwy 17).

In Alberta for as long as I have been driving (over 41 years), all highways have been owned by the province. Maintenance and such is carried out by municipalities and/or counties/municipal districts or even the province. Then there are exceptions like highway 2 through Calgary which is owned and maintained by the province and also highway 901 which is also owned and maintained by the province. Other highways that go through Calgary such as the 1A, 2A and 8 are owned and maintained by the city within city limits.

[Rollerstud98]

Are you sure province maintains highway 2 within Calgary? Up until several years ago Ledcor had the outside of Calgary city limits contract for snow clearing until they dropped the ball hardcore after a rather large snow storm which is when Alberta Highway Services took over and within city limits it is Carmacks who does all the snow clearing on the highway. I guess maybe they just do the highway but wonder why have different companies that literally only do up to the city limits.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

Are you sure province maintains highway 2 within Calgary? Up until several years ago Ledcor had the outside of Calgary city limits contract for snow clearing until they dropped the ball hardcore after a rather large snow storm which is when Alberta Highway Services took over and within city limits it is Carmacks who does all the snow clearing on the highway. I guess maybe they just do the highway but wonder why have different companies that literally only do up to the city limits.

Carmacks is contracted to the province, any issues with highway 2 within Calgary city limits are handled by Carmacks and not the city. You will not see city of Calgary plows on highway 2.

[Rollerstud98]

Gotcha! Wonder why they wouldn't get Carmacks outside of the city, heading south from Airdrie once you hit the city limits the highway is generally in better condition.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

In Alberta I believe the "secondary highway" system was originally owned by the municipalities they ran through, but were taken over by the province some time ago.

Not sure how numbered secondary systems are administered in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland & Labrador.

Another issue is widely varying road and winter maintenance standards from one county/region to another. In winter particularly, you can be on a major rural road and go from a clear, salted road to an unplowed, slippery road just because you've crossed from one county to another. Not to mention there's no reporting of winter road conditions for non-provincial roads.

A couple of jurisdictions have ditched a lot of the regional road numbers. Hamilton got rid of most of them about 12 years ago, with the exception of some former provincial highways and at least one rural route that leads into Niagara Region, and Ottawa ditched all the numbers on roads inside the Greenbelt except for 174 (former Hwy 17).

In Nova Scotia, all highways are provincially maintained.

[vid]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

This fall, the province will also move forward with a formal route planning study and Environmental Assessment for an emergency detour route. This is expected to take approximately 18 months to complete. While our government has full confidence that the retrofit, once complete, will ensure that the bridge is safe for all users, this detour route would provide an alternate option for local residents and businesses in an emergency.

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2016/09/joint-statement-on-nipigon-river-bridge.html

Thank you.

In Northern Ontario, instead of having county roads with random numbers, we have the MTOs 500 and 600 series of secondary highways and the 800 series of tertiary highways. This is because we have no county level government here, except for Sudbury. Most rural areas in the north have no local government at all, they're directly under provincial jurisdiction.

The 500+ highways don't change their numbers when they cross boundaries.


Ontario's highway numbering system has never made any sense. I would love to re-number highway 17 as Highway 1 just to have contiguity with the west, and re-number Highway 11 from Shabaqua to Fort Frances as something other than 11.

[SignalHillHiker]

Update: The Trans Canada, which closed here December 31, may re-open tomorrow, but that isn't likely.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Update: The Trans Canada, which closed here December 31, may re-open tomorrow, but that isn't likely.

Why was it closed?

[SignalHillHiker]

Washout.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/newfo...r-sinkhole-government-response-1.3920486

Government is taking "proactive measures" a week after the collapse.

That wouldn't fly anywhere else, said Fowler, who criticized the acting transportation and works minister, Eddie Joyce, for saying things were beyond the government's control, and urging drivers to take due care.

"You try doing this down in Boston. You try doing this down in New Hampshire. You try doing this down in Florida on the interstate, 95, down there," he said.

"You're going to shut down a highway for two days because you can't get crews out there? There are people that would be booted out of office. This 'due care and caution,' it's like saying, 'Have a nice day.' That's not leadership."

...

While the traffic backups are frustrating drivers, they mean added business for some stores in Holyrood.

Melissa Sweetapple, a clerk at Wall 2 Wall Convenience, says business had been picking up from all the traffic routing through the area.

She says passengers are always stopping in to use the washroom.

"It's slowed down a bit now. The past couple of days, it's been really crazy. It looked like it was St. John's out there," she said, laughing.

Melissa's quote has to be one of the saddest things anyone has ever said aloud. That's someone's actual life. That's what their time on this earth is. I can't.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by vid

Ontario's highway numbering system has never made any sense. I would love to re-number highway 17 as Highway 1 just to have contiguity with the west, and re-number Highway 11 from Shabaqua to Fort Frances as something other than 11.

I have long believed Highway 17 should have been numbered as Highway 1 in Ontario (especially as there's no highway currently with that number, notwithstanding it being used as the official number of the QEW). I find in the national media it already gets referred to as Highway 1, particularly in NW Ontario. Such a change however, I don't think would go over too well further east; it's been known as Highway 17 for almost 100 years. There's also the issue of what to do with 417; it obviously can't become 401.

As far Highway 11, it used to be Highway 120 out there. I've never understood why that section of highway was ever made part of 11.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I have long believed Highway 17 should have been numbered as Highway 1 in Ontario (especially as there's no highway currently with that number, notwithstanding it being used as the official number of the QEW). I find in the national media it already gets referred to as Highway 1, particularly in NW Ontario. Such a change however, I don't think would go over too well further east. There's also the issue of what to do with 417; it obviously can't become 401.

As far Highway 11, it used to be Highway 120 out there. I've never understood why that section of highway was ever made part of 11.

Ontario labels it's highways as it pleases. There is no highway 1 in Ontario. Highway 2 runs (or at least used to run) along the St Lawrence Seaway, Lake Ontario and then heads inland through Brantford, Woodstock, London and Sarnia. Much of it has been downgraded.

West of Thunder Bay, I have always thought that 11 and 17 should switch.

As they twin 17, it will become 417. Eventually, as they twin 11, it will likely get 411.

[eemy]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I have long believed Highway 17 should have been numbered as Highway 1 in Ontario (especially as there's no highway currently with that number, notwithstanding it being used as the official number of the QEW).

QEW doesn't have an official number. The MTO uses 451 internally, but it's certainly not the official number.

[vid]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Ontario labels it's highways as it pleases. There is no highway 1 in Ontario. Highway 2 runs (or at least used to run) along the St Lawrence Seaway, Lake Ontario and then heads inland through Brantford, Woodstock, London and Sarnia. Much of it has been downgraded.

West of Thunder Bay, I have always thought that 11 and 17 should switch.

As they twin 17, it will become 417. Eventually, as they twin 11, it will likely get 411.

Highway 11 in the GTA was replaced by Highway 400. But that won't work now because they extended Highway 400 up Highway 69 instead of Highway 11. They've been upgrading Highway 11 in places but the number has stayed 11 and I don't see them upgrading it any time soon since Highway 400 carries most of the traffic.

Renumbering the highways will only apply to parts already connected to a highway with that number, the route between Thunder Bay and Nipigon isn't going to become 411/417 once it's finished being twinned. And I hope in the future if they do renumber them they just give it its own name because 11/17 is hard enough to explain.

If I could renumber all the routes in Northern Ontario, I'd probably give Highway 17 the highway 1 designation, end Highway 11 at Nipigon, and renumber 11 in NWO, 61, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 69, 71, and 72 as 111, 161, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 169, 171 and 172. Any 500 and 600 series highways with a minimum threshold of traffic or that connects an important community would be upgraded to the 100 series. And I'm pretty sure that there are enough vacancies in the 500s at this point that all the 600s could be renumbered into that range. It's weird that we skipped the 200s and 300s entirely.

And not many people know this but Ontario has highways with numbers in the 7000s, they're mostly important links of road that the MTOs manages which are either not part of a highway, or are a highway stretch that has a specific name (like the Thunder Bay Expressway) and the designation only applies to the portion where that name applies. And again why they numbered them in the 7000s (the 700s would probably have been fine? There are only about 40 of them) is beyond me.

[Loco101]

I've read that the reason why the Ontario government didn't designate a Highway 1 was because it didn't want to make certain communities or regions seem more important than others. This began during the 1920s when many parts of the province (especially Northern Ontario) were having roads built to them.

Any highway that goes across Ontario will miss major cities and regions so I can see why not having a Hwy 1 is a good idea.