Downtown Update

[TheRitsman]

So a sign finally went up for the commercial unit at the Bella towers which oddly has the entrance off Caroline, though I didn't check the Main St side

"Abundance Healthcare"


And looks like someone bought up Modern nightclub and painted it. I'm curious what the plan is here or if they are just rebranding as another club.

[Innsertnamehere]

August permit data is out - including July's previously missing detailed list.

August saw $371 million in permits issued, launching 2023 solidly into first place in terms of total permit value. The rolling 12-month permit value now stands at $2.467 billion - higher than the $2.196 value seen in August in 2021.

Major permits issued in the last two months include:

July:
- $60 Million - 75 James St N - New Apartments
- $4 million - 73 Aeropark Blvd - Offices
- $10 million - 586 Tradewind Dr - Warehouses
- $4 million - 2 Medicorum Pl - Warehouses
- $4 million - 500 Rennie St - Repair Garages
- $9 million - 105 Clappison Ave - Medical Offices
- $47 million - 967 Arvin Ave - Plant for Manufacturing
August:
- $16 million - 2782 Barton St E - Addition (I believe this is for the 4 extra floors for LJM tower)
- $9 million - 11 Robert St - Apartments (surprised to only see this now, when the building is topped off)
- $255 million - 41 Wilson St E - Apartments (this is Design District, and possibly the largest single permit value ever issued in Hamilton)
- $17 million - 1411 Upper Wellington - Nursing Homes foundation

[matt602]

Quarter of a billion dollar development. Thats absolutely insane.

[Chronamut]

What the hell, 41 wilson st is a tiny little area of land, are they building this to the moon??

[Hawrylyshyn]

It's the Design District (3 tower) project by Emblem

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

It's the Design District (3 tower) project by Emblem

Ohhh haha silly me I thought this was 41 wilson st Ancaster, which is still hamilton.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by matt602

Quarter of a billion dollar development. Thats absolutely insane.

And this is just the main permit. There is tens of millions more in permits for other components of the project.

[TheHonestMaple]

Those towers will be absolutely game changing for James Street North. Expect a night and day difference with the number of people on the street.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Those towers will be absolutely game changing for James Street North. Expect a night and day difference with the number of people on the street.

Just makes that parking lot in front of Alectra appear even more stark in contrast..

..wonder if I'll ever see it developed in my lifetime..

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Just makes that parking lot in front of Alectra appear even more stark in contrast..

..wonder if I'll ever see it developed in my lifetime..

Not a chance it lasts another 10 years.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

And this is just the main permit. There is tens of millions more in permits for other components of the project.

I wonder, is the value of the permit the cost of materials, labour, fees, lawyer costs, property acquisition, consultation fees etc., or some mix of the first couple of times related to labour and material?

Speaking of, does anyone know what Emblem paid for the property at 41 Wilson?

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

I wonder, is the value of the permit the cost of materials, labour, fees, lawyer costs, property acquisition, consultation fees etc., or some mix of the first couple of times related to labour and material?

Speaking of, does anyone know what Emblem paid for the property at 41 Wilson?

$20 million:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

This sold for $20,127,000 to First Avenue Investment Council, which is the overhead corporation for Emblem Developments, the developer of 1 Jarvis. I’d say it’s suddenly a lot more likely to get built.

My understanding is that building permit values are typically the cost of the physical construction only, including materials and labour. It does not account for soft costs, land, interest on loans, etc.

[craftbeerdad]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronamut View Post
Just makes that parking lot in front of Alectra appear even more stark in contrast..

..wonder if I'll ever see it developed in my lifetime..
Not a chance it lasts another 10 years.


Not even a chance it lasts 5 years!

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by craftbeerdad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronamut View Post
Just makes that parking lot in front of Alectra appear even more stark in contrast..

..wonder if I'll ever see it developed in my lifetime..
Not a chance it lasts another 10 years.


Not even a chance it lasts 5 years!

I dunno man, i've seen proposed designs for it, but crickets so far..

let's up the ante,

wonder if I'll ever see the old zellers lot on james developed in my lifetime, or the old robinsons plot

bets anyone?

[TheHonestMaple]

I think we're seeing a bit of a slowdown in construction due to higher interest rates, but as long as the federal government keeps the gas pedal on immigration and an increased desire to live in city centres remains, I suspect the demand for downtown condos will remain high in the next 5-10. I predict all those locations will have 30+ strorey towers within the next 7 years.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I think we're seeing a bit of a slowdown in construction due to higher interest rates, but as long as the federal government keeps the gas pedal on immigration and an increased desire to live in city centres remains, I suspect the demand for downtown condos will remain high in the next 5-10. I predict all those locations will have 30+ strorey towers within the next 7 years.

Not sure theyll all be 30+ stories, I would think some sort of adherance to the streetwall is needed.

The podiums at least don't be - I would hope for something like a william thomas maybe - the robinsons can flirt with more height and not look weird, but the zellers plot is gonna be tricky.

[TheHonestMaple]

There's a reason developers push for 30+ floors, economies of scale. The bigger the tower, the more profitable each unit becomes. The cost of a development does not scale linearly with size. Much of a building - foundation, mechanical equipment, etc, cost the same if it was 10 floors of 30 floors.

I think that Zellers plot would be perfect for a large tower. Have a faux historic facade on James and King William, and put a tower on top. Why not?

[mikevbar1]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

There's a reason developers push for 30+ floors, economies of scale. The bigger the tower, the more profitable each unit becomes. The cost of a development does not scale linearly with size. Much of a building - foundation, mechanical equipment, etc, cost the same if it was 10 floors of 30 floors.

I think that Zellers plot would be perfect for a large tower. Have a faux historic facade on James and King William, and put a tower on top. Why not?

Pardon my ignorance, but... where was the Zellers exactly? I could swear I've been told before but I can't recall.

And yes, the cost for a 10-30 storey tower or a 30-50 storey tower scales in favour of more height. After that there are elevator/building core questions that change what you gotta do and increases the per-unit cost. In light of that, we could realistically build something at the upper end of that range, since that's what can coneivably be realized by any given 30-storey project.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by mikevbar1

Pardon my ignorance, but... where was the Zellers exactly? I could swear I've been told before but I can't recall.

And yes, the cost for a 10-30 storey tower or a 30-50 storey tower scales in favour of more height. After that there are elevator/building core questions that change what you gotta do and increases the per-unit cost. In light of that, we could realistically build something at the upper end of that range, since that's what can coneivably be realized by any given 30-storey project.

[ScreamingViking]

She would have made for a wonderful podium.