Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Hopefully this is rejected and not built. It would be a shame to lose that cluster of historic buildings for a bland residential condo that could literally be developed anywhere else but there.

Agreed.

It's been fun to watch my evolution on development issues like this. I've been on this forum since 2001 (under a previous username), and Comrade and I used to have so pretty knock-down drag-out fights back in 2002-2003. I was all about bulldozing everything and very car-centric. Since then I've taken far too many urban planning and traffic engineering classes. And it turns out most of your instincts are backed by sound planning practice. I'm not afraid to now admit I was wrong back then (and it helps that I'm not a 17-year-old doofus anymore).

Holy hell. I just realized I've been on this forum for half my life. Geez.

[Pencil]

I'm only 16 and I'm glad I dont have that mindset of wanting to bulldoze everything for some 5 story apartment building that looks exactly the same from the one down the street. Luckily the internet can tell me everything I want to know about urban planning. Hopefully this forum can stay up for a long time. When the website went down a couple months back I thought it was over. Thankfully it came back up.

I'm happy I went on a field trip about 2 years ago to downtown Ogden to see a movie but saw an apartment building being constructed which sparked my interest in all of this. I still dont remember how I found this website but I'm happy I did and now I've been going on it daily since I created my account and have learned many things and still am.

[bob rulz]

I'm guessing most if not all of you have heard about Oregon outlawing all single-family only zoning and basically allowing duplexes, triplexes, and fourplexes in all medium-to-large sized cities. I think that's a great change and it makes me wish Utah, or at least Salt Lake City, would do the same thing. I think we could all be in agreement. I grew up in a duplex in Sugarhouse that I'm assuming was built before the most exclusive zoning laws went into effect, and I thought it was great. I never even entertained the idea of it degrading the "character" of a neighborhood. Yeah sometimes the next-door renters would be a problem, but it was rare.

But other interesting things I've heard is the idea of maximum sizes for housing. I think this is an even more interesting idea. You can still build a single-family home, but it can't be "out of scale" with the rest of the neighborhood. An ordinance like this would stop these older homes from getting torn down and replaced with huge single-family - bigger buildings would have to be multi-family. Basically how it will work in Oregon is that single-family homes have to be a certain size, duplexes can be larger, and triplexes and fourplexes can be up to the maximum size allowed, which I believe is a size that is often currently allowed for single-family homes, or at least close to it.

What do you guys think? Is this something that Salt Lake City should do? I think - I hope - that we can all be pro-duplexes/triplexes etc, but what about maximum house sizes?

On another note, do we agree that ADUs should have to go through the planning commission? Or should ADUs just be allowed without any planning commission approval? Personally I'm in favor of the latter as long as they're within the parameters set.

I feel that this kind of wholesale density increase throughout the city would help a lot with the housing supply, and of course contrary to popular belief, it wouldn't lead to bulldozing of neighborhoods, ESPECIALLY with the maximum house size provision, since it wouldn't be particularly economical to tear down an old house without a density increase.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

What do you guys think?

Banning R1 zoning? AWESOME

As a lover of free markets... I'm so sick and tired of people treating 1970s Euclidian zoning like Moses brought it down from Mt. Sinai.

What happens when land prices skyrocket but R1 zoning is enforced? The free market distorts horribly, leading to 100% mansion construction (see Pasadena), housing shortages (see Palo Alto), and overoccupancy (see everywhere). As much as I'd love to see zoning abolished entirely, I concede we need some control. But I'd love to see states strip R1 from cities which do not provide adequate affordable/attainable housing (here's looking at you, Orange County!)

---------

As for maximum housing sizes? I'm not really stoked on that. I'm not against douchebags building mansions on pricey lots. They should have that freedom. BUT... regular people need the legal capability to team up and outbid them for multifamily housing on the lot (5 units @ $250k > 1 mansion @ $1M).

[delts145]

At Utah's Gateway mall, the literal art of retail resurrection

By Court Mann for the Deseret News - https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...urrection.html

Vestar, an Arizona-based company which owns more than 50 retail spaces throughout the western United States, bought the Gateway in 2016. The company is in the midst of a reported $100 million upgrade to the beleaguered mall.

Those upgrades are becoming more and more apparent. As Warner talks inside La Barba, employees from Recursion, a pharmaceutical company now housed in what used to be a Dick’s Sporting Goods, walk by on their way to lunch. Numerous construction workers enter and exit an old Barnes & Noble, which is being converted to a high-end dining hall. About a dozen swimsuit-clad children play in the nearby fountain......Then there’s the art, which has become one of the most noticeable components of the Gateway’s revamping...With all the real estate that visual art now occupies at the Gateway, the actual reported amount going to visual art is surprising — because of how little it is. Jacklyn Briggs, Vestar’s marketing director, said only 1% of Vestar’s $100 million redevelopment has been earmarked for art specifically. Walking around the Gateway, its commitment to visual art belies those figures...

A mural recently completed by Havoc Hendricks at the Gateway Mall in Salt Lake City on Thursday, June 13, 2019. Photo By Silas Walker, Deseret News

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[Atlas]

Originally Posted by i-215

Holy hell. I just realized I've been on this forum for half my life. Geez.

Same here. I was 13 when I joined and now I'm 26. I don't post much but I've been a consistent lurker for that time.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by i-215

Banning R1 zoning? AWESOME

As a lover of free markets... I'm so sick and tired of people treating 1970s Euclidian zoning like Moses brought it down from Mt. Sinai.

What happens when land prices skyrocket but R1 zoning is enforced? The free market distorts horribly, leading to 100% mansion construction (see Pasadena), housing shortages (see Palo Alto), and overoccupancy (see everywhere). As much as I'd love to see zoning abolished entirely, I concede we need some control. But I'd love to see states strip R1 from cities which do not provide adequate affordable/attainable housing (here's looking at you, Orange County!)

---------

As for maximum housing sizes? I'm not really stoked on that. I'm not against douchebags building mansions on pricey lots. They should have that freedom. BUT... regular people need the legal capability to team up and outbid them for multifamily housing on the lot (5 units @ $250k > 1 mansion @ $1M).

I'm for better and tighter land-use regulations. Otherwise you get bad development. Just look at northern Utah County. Leap-frog developments, very inefficient use of land and infrastructure, continuing blight in existing urban cores, dependency on auto usage, etc. Look at Vancouver, Portland, Calgary for good examples.

[Orlando]

Speaking of...see the article in the Deseret News:

As Seattle cracks down on McMansions, a question lingers: Are huge homes morally wrong?

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...ices-home.html

[Orlando]

New article about the developments along the street car line:

https://www.buildingsaltlake.com/in-...3sHx11Hn6Hu4zI

[RC14]

R1 zoning should never have existed. I would think that eliminating R1 alone would slow down rising housing costs.

Think about what it would do to the housing supply if even 1/4 of all single family homes became duplexes-fourplexes. I realize this is still a ridiculously high expectation but it shines light on the amount of land that is being wasted just with R1 zoning.

[csbxvs]

Originally Posted by RC14

R1 zoning should never have existed. I would think that eliminating R1 alone would slow down rising housing costs.

Think about what it would do to the housing supply if even 1/4 of all single family homes became duplexes-fourplexes. I realize this is still a ridiculously high expectation but it shines light on the amount of land that is being wasted just with R1 zoning.

Transportation networks require thoughtful planning, but when it comes to development, I think the attitude needed is one of stewardship more so than planning.

For example, it boggles my mind that Liberty Park is entirely surrounded by single family homes and has a corner lot coffee shop that is >60% parking lot.

The former is a problem of overly-strict planning, and the latter could be seen as a failure of stewardship (although I would be amazed if that particular parking decision wasn't also driven by municipal parking requirements).

Single-family and single-use zoning is a mistake. It tries to control too much that should have been left to individual people/market to decide.

So that said, I agree with you that everything up to a 4-plex should be allowed by-right in SLC and SSL. Certainly, at least, everywhere east of I-15 or within 1 mile of any transit stop.

[bob rulz]

Salt Lake City is taking a thorough look at their parking requirements right now and is in the process of rewriting the parking code.

I just moved to a location off of 1300 South, very close to Liberty Park, and while I'm glad to be closer to downtown, it's amazing how little commercial development exists on this street and around the park in general.

I do hope that Salt Lake City will take a close look at what Portland just did and at least consider allowing duplexes and above again, then consider how to get more commercial into these older central city neighborhoods.

I'm considering emailing every mayoral candidate and asking their views on this issue.

[ThePusherMan]

Food Alley has officially broken ground. Foundation digging is happening. Also, I am told that there have been soil samples taken on the Sears block.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Salt Lake City is taking a thorough look at their parking requirements right now and is in the process of rewriting the parking code.

I just moved to a location off of 1300 South, very close to Liberty Park, and while I'm glad to be closer to downtown, it's amazing how little commercial development exists on this street and around the park in general.

I do hope that Salt Lake City will take a close look at what Portland just did and at least consider allowing duplexes and above again, then consider how to get more commercial into these older central city neighborhoods.

I'm considering emailing every mayoral candidate and asking their views on this issue.

It would be great if they could upzone the area around Liberty Park to mixed-use housing with retail at the ground floor.

[ThePusherMan]

There is fencing up around the Pickle Factory and work on the EVO project is well on it's way. The Granary is going to be a lot different in the next year or two.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Hopefully this is rejected and not built. It would be a shame to lose that cluster of historic buildings for a bland residential condo that could literally be developed anywhere else but there.

Salt Lake has far too few of these small commercial nodes and I love 'em, even if they're not pleasant to look at in their current state. I'd much rather they invest in renovating those buildings than demolishing them.

Central Station mixed-income residential site, at Thomas Electric Co., center (beige). Hong Kong Tea House is visible lower right. To the left is Artspace Bridge (green and red), with Artspace City Center and Macaroni Flats, center-left. SLC RDA owns the vacant lots, center-right, branded Station Center. Photo by Luke Garrott.[/CENTER]

I'm also casting my vote to reject this development if it means demolishing any of these buildings on 200 South in Old Greek Town, but the building on the corner.

[Old&New]

Why is the sky black? Is that the inversion?

[RC14]

Salt Lake City RDA approves $11M in loans for housing project on State Street
By Carter Williams, KSL.com
https://www.ksl.com/article/46591757...n-state-street

A lot where a failed housing development project was to be built is one step closer to being filled by another housing project.

On Tuesday, Salt Lake City’s Redevelopment Agency (RDA) approved more than $11 million in loans for a new 14-story downtown affordable-housing development at 255 S. State, an area that has caused city officials headaches over the past few years due to the previous failed project.

The board unanimously agreed to approve a $6.4 million loan request by Brinshore Development. LLC for the project and another $5 million loan for the development to acquire the land parcel. Brinshore's project calls for a mixed-use, mixed-income housing development, and will have 190 units with ranging affordability. About 66% of the residents will make 20% to 80% of the area median income. The project also includes a plan to rehabilitate the historic Cramer House and add a public walkway in the area....

The project is currently projected to be completed in mid-2022, according to city officials.

[ThePusherMan]

That's going to be a great project. If the target completion is Mid 2022 when do we think it breaks ground? 2020?

[Makid]

Originally Posted by ThePusherMan

That's going to be a great project. If the target completion is Mid 2022 when do we think it breaks ground? 2020?

They want to break ground before the end of the year as one of the tax credits needs to be used towards a building that is started this year. That credit is for the shorter building.

Even though they are sharing an underground space, the shorter one is planned to start before the end of this year with the taller one starting in early 2020.

That is the plans and Brinkshore has requested that the City Council and RDA help with speeding up the processing to keep to this schedule as much as possible.