Halifax Stadium Discussion

[c-way-dude]

Grey Cups in stadiums with less than 40k seats might be happening more often.
ottawacitizen.com/sports/football/cfl/ottawa-grey-cup-game-in-good-time-cfl-commissioner-says

[Colin May]

http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...110ca11110.pdf

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Colin May

http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...110ca11110.pdf

RECOMMENDATION

It is recommended that Halifax Regional Council:

1. Direct Staff to continue to work with the Canada Lands Company on the development of community concept plans, integrating the policy and concepts of the Centre Plan currently under development in addition to exploring opportunities for the integration of a diverse mix of housing types, affordability and public amenities;

2. Direct Staff to expand upon the original analysis of a 10,000 and 14,000 seat stadium previously completed in the “Halifax Stadium Analysis – Phase 2” and undertake further analysis of the financial case, business model, and feasibility of a 20,000+ seat stadium, with funding from the Strategic Growth Reserve, Q126;

3. Direct Staff to more precisely define how much land would be required to construct a sports stadium seating 20,000+ people, and engage the Canada Land Company in more detailed conversations regarding the location and purchase price of a portion of Shannon Park to accommodate such a facility;

4. Continue to coordinate with Halifax Water with regard to their infrastructure requirements within the Shannon Park community and the impacts that these requirements may have on land values and required land ownership; and

5. Direct Staff to provide a report to Regional Council at such time a planning application is submitted to Halifax Regional Municipality which would outline the proposed community concept in addition to Staff recommendations on parks / open space location, use, as well as opportunities for public transportation integration into the project.

It contains some interesting recommendations. If nothing else then maybe land will be set aside for a stadium and future Shannon Park residents will know that a stadium is being planned for their area.

[ILoveHalifax]

If the Trudeau government provides any infrastructure money in the near future, I would hope the stadium would be the development of choice and would provide greatest impact on the city.

[Nouvellecosse]

Is a stadium even infrastructure?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Is a stadium even infrastructure?

Depending on your definition - yes.

[Nouvellecosse]

Looking at the Wikipedia definition which I would agree with, I suppose one could roughly classify it under enhancing societal living conditions. But it also uses the terms "essential" and "fundamental" so I would argue that it wouldn't qualify.

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Infrastructure refers to the fundamental facilities and systems serving a country, city, or area,[1] including the services and facilities necessary for its economy to function.[2] It typically characterises technical structures such as roads, bridges, tunnels, water supply, sewers, electrical grids, telecommunications, and so forth, and can be defined as "the physical components of interrelated systems providing commodities and services essential to enable, sustain, or enhance societal living conditions."[3]

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Is a stadium even infrastructure?

Harper said infrastructure would not include stadia/rinks or other sports facilities.
Infrastructure means transit, affordable housing, sewers,water lines, hospitals and similar municipal or provincial public works. Not to mention the replacement of 40+ year old seniors buildings and nursing homes.
On the CBC News tonight Leo Glavine made a fool of himself painting a somewhat positive picture of the state of the VG and immediately after CBC ran a clip from a VG person detailing the lost capacity of the VG.
I doubt the province or PM Trudeau will be keen on announcing a stadium.
I see Mulroney is part of a lobby to get an NHL franchise in the new Quebec rink.
Every stadium I have been in, and that is at least 13, were owned and developed by a club; the pool/rink in Tokyo was built for the Olympics.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Harper said infrastructure would not include stadia/rinks or other sports facilities.
Infrastructure means transit, affordable housing, sewers,water lines, hospitals and similar municipal or provincial public works. Not to mention the replacement of 40+ year old seniors buildings and nursing homes.
On the CBC News tonight Leo Glavine made a fool of himself painting a somewhat positive picture of the state of the VG and immediately after CBC ran a clip from a VG person detailing the lost capacity of the VG.
I doubt the province or PM Trudeau will be keen on announcing a stadium.
I see Mulroney is part of a lobby to get an NHL franchise in the new Quebec rink

I don't imagine Trudeau will be wedded to Harpers definition of infrastructure.

Sports infrastructure is a "grey area". The Moncton Stadium got federal funding because it was built for an amateur sporting event (the IAAF Junior World Championships). The new events centre in Moncton however did not qualify since the major tenant for the arena will be a "professional" team - the Moncton Wildcats. As a junior team, I dispute their definition of professional, but whatever,

I think that if the proposed stadium in Halifax is "spun" in the proper manner, that federal funding might be accessible. In other words, don't approach the feds asking for money for a CFL stadium. That would be suicide. A community stadium to support local soccer teams and university football however might work. Just make sure that the stadium is built large enough for the CFL, or could be easily expandable to CFL standards. If in a few years Halifax manages to incidentally get a CFL franchise, then everyone would be happy........

[someone123]

It's nice at least that the points in the report make some sense. The earlier (rushed) proposal to spend $70M or whatever it was to build a 14,000-seat stadium aimed at a soccer event wouldn't have been very worthwhile. They explicitly mention that the stadium should be useful for other events beyond professional sports. The report also correctly points out that stadiums are hard to integrate into existing neighbourhoods but that a stadium that goes in should be part of a mixed development rather than set in the middle of an enormous sea of parking.

I think it would be pretty terrible for the city to spend $200M on a "CFL stadium" in the middle of nowhere, but spending a significant amount of cash to get something with wide appeal that is part of a larger development could make sense.

[Colin May]

Water will be high on the list. Preston-Lawrencetown has a Liberal MP and the area has groundwater problems and no piped water supply despite the Prestons being near the watershed. Hendsbee has been quietly pushing for expansion of a water main beyond Ross Road. Infrastructure funding would significantly reduce the cost to home owners.
The issue can be framed in the same manner as safe, clean water for First Nations.
Savage and the MP would have a hard time putting a stadium higher up the list than a basic human requirement.
And Dalrymple wants piped water to his area.
Maybe Savage and MacNeil can convince Trudeau to pick up part of the bill for the bridge deck.
And it is election year so send your wish list to your 3 representatives.
And First Nations will be getting part of the lands for condo development.

[Keith P.]

In my view public funding for a stadium should be very low on the list of priorities. But HRM has never been big on spending on priority items, preferring instead to waste money on unnecessary toys for special interests.

[spaustin]

With a large stadium on the agenda for council, I did up an article for Spacing on the idea. Economic arguments aside, my feeling is that Shannon Park isn't the best site. It might have made sense when we were trying to spark the redevelopment of this key property, but now redevelopment is happening regardless, stadium or no stadium. Shannon Park should be developed as high-density, mixed-use residential and commercial. If we're going to build a stadium, we should be looking Downtown where parking and services already exist and we wouldn't be creating a space that alternates between empty and full with nothing in between.

http://spacing.ca/atlantic/2015/11/1...-shannon-park/

[Nouvellecosse]

Downtown? There may be a few surface parking lots that need filling but I can't think of anything that big.

[spaustin]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Downtown? There may be a few surface parking lots that need filling but I can't think of anything that big.

I came up with one, the end of Salter Street. With the right orientation, the two existing surface lots could be combined. Some moderate infill would be needed, but it might work. Below is the land with Saputo Stadium from Montreal dropped on site.

[MonctonRad]

Fog Bowl!!!

[stevencourchene]

Originally Posted by spaustin

I came up with one, the end of Salter Street. With the right orientation, the two existing surface lots could be combined. Some moderate infill would be needed, but it might work. Below is the land with Saputo Stadium from Montreal dropped on site.

I so agree with this. having some attachments to Shannon park I feel like Dartmouth would not be the best place for this and I do totally agree that Halifax is better for this project how ever its such a cool idea to have the big stadium on the bottom of salter I do believe they already have some plans for that space.

but I think down town or even towards the north or south end as they are trying to build those areas as well would be an options.

[Nouvellecosse]

Hmm, better than surface parking I suppose.

[Phalanx]

Eh, I really don't see that as a viable location. Between the fact that it would have to be shoehorned in, leaving very little room for expansion or other contingencies, it would require a significant amount of infill and the loss of working wharves, it would potentially be even more at mercy to the elements than a location not projecting into the harbour, and the street infrastructure in that area is minimal (yes, I realize that one of the benefits to having it downtown is that public transit and walking become viable, but you're not going to eliminate street traffic altogether). Not to mention that the design will likely be on the cheap-ish side, so it'd be a bit of an eyesore on the boardwalk, or when viewed from the harbour.

Would rather Shannon Park to this. If built in conjunction with a planned mixed-use development there, a lot of the parking could be accommodated with additional underground parking in the surrounding buildings.

[someone123]

For what it's worth, I am not sold on the idea of building a stadium downtown, and the reports that have come out recently echo this sentiment.

I've never seen a large stadium that has been well-integrated into fine-grained urban fabric around it. The best stadiums have decent entrances and then large areas that feel more or less like Cogswell. These are the ones served with subways and rapid transit that Halifax probably won't have for a long time. The worst ones have huge areas of surface parking. Either way they're dead most of the time and then kind of annoying when events are on.

Keep in mind that in Halifax there's also a desire to start with a simpler stadium design. There are no major sports teams that can be relied on to draw huge crowds. As a result, the budget will be much lower than with other major stadiums in large cities, and the capacity to deal with an unusual waterfront site will be limited.

Putting a stadium out in the middle of nowhere is also bad, but Shannon Park is a reasonable happy medium. There can be temporary ferry service, decent bus service, and some mixed-use development nearby that can be planned with the stadium in mind.