CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[Mr Man]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Yes, but Bensenville plans to appeal. Time will tell just how far they are willing to go, and how much legal fees they are willing to pay, to halt this demolition.

I will never forgive the state of Illinois for not intervening in this matter. How much tax dollars have Bensenville and Chicago spent fighting over this? The O'Hare Modernization Act already gives Chicago all the authority it needs plus it's in the overall best interest of the entire region. There must be no less than two dozen Chicago attorneys who'll be able to retire comfortably when all this is said and done thanks to Bensenville.

I wonder how Bensenville is still solvent anyway. It has a powerful industrial base but that pales in the face of the millions on attorney's fees fighting this thing to the bitter end. Plus a huge chunk of their taxbase has been wiped out thanks to the tax-free emminet domain powers of King Daley.

Plus I may be the only one on the forums who thinks this weakened tax base may prelude to annexation. Chicago and Wood Dale can swoop in and divvy up the good stuff.

[nomarandlee]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...,7071507.story

Financial woes in airline industry threaten to undermine Chicago airport expansion

By MICHAEL TARM | Associated Press Writer
5:40 AM CDT, August 9, 2008

CHICAGO (AP) _ Soaring gas prices have claimed plenty of victims — from SUV sales to stock market portfolios. They now threaten to claim another: the expansion of one of the world's busiest airports.

Chicago wants to complete the expansion of O'Hare International Airport, which relies heavily on revenue from cash-strapped airlines, by 2014 — two years before it hopes to host the Summer Olympics.

But carriers serving Chicago now appear reluctant to put up more money to finish the job because high fuel costs have cut so deeply into industry revenue, forcing airlines to raise fares, slash flights and lay off workers.

........Spokesmen for two airlines that control most of O'Hare's gates, American and United, said Friday that they continue to talk to expansion officials.

Boyd said the burden is on expansion officials to demonstrate that putting up the money will benefit airlines soon. But he's optimistic that O'Hare — with some adjustments — would secure the needed funds.........

..

[Marcu]

Originally Posted by Mr Man

I will never forgive the state of Illinois for not intervening in this matter. How much tax dollars have Bensenville and Chicago spent fighting over this?

I'm not sure what the state could have done or what you were looking for it to do. This is a constitutional taking issue, so it would have gone through the courts regardless of state law. Did you expect Blago to hold counseling sessions for the two cities?

[LaSalle.St.Station]

this little hamlet is pullling out all the stops. but how can u argue a case already decided at the fed level?

[Chi_Coruscant]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,5546837.story

Judge puts demolition for O'Hare expansion on hold
By Art Barnum

Tribune reporter

9:59 AM CDT, August 11, 2008

The demolition of more than 500 Bensenville homes to make room for a new O'Hare Airport runway was delayed for at least 30 days on Monday by DuPage Judge Kenneth Popejoy.

Popejoy, who last week ruled that Chicago could begin demolition of the properties, said that he was issuing the order to allow attorneys for Bensenville to file an appeal with the 2nd District Illinois Appellate Court of his ruling.

Popejoy said that he was confident that his ruling last week was correct , "but Bensenville deserves the chance to appeal. But the delay granted by me ends on Sept. 10 and any further delay will be up to the appellate court."

[Marcu]

Some resident lawyer has to be doing this work for the village of Bensenville pro bono (aka as charity). There is no way Bensenville would have this kind of cash.

[Mr Man]

Originally Posted by Marcu

I'm not sure what the state could have done or what you were looking for it to do. This is a constitutional taking issue, so it would have gone through the courts regardless of state law. Did you expect Blago to hold counseling sessions for the two cities?

You should read up on the amount of lawsuits being filed by Bensenville. The Eminent Domain ones were filed in the beginning and have long since been decided. Those were legitimate. Most of the new lawsuits filed by Bensenville are clearly stalling tactics. Also, the millions needed to fund Bensenville's frivolous legal battles are taxpayer funded.

The state has a lot of influence, but it has been largely absent from Chicago's battle with Bensenville. I think this shows lack of leadership. The only people benefiting from this long drawn-out legal battle are the attorneys.

[Nowhereman1280]

Daley just needs to go Meigs on their asses...

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Mr Man

The state has a lot of influence, but it has been largely absent from Chicago's battle with Bensenville. I think this shows lack of leadership. The only people benefiting from this long drawn-out legal battle are the attorneys.

Every bit of Daley-controlled O'Hare that is expanded means less demand for a State-controlled boondoggle airport in Peotone, so why should they cooperate (or put another way, why should taxis ever treat buses kindly?).

[Mr Man]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

Every bit of Daley-controlled O'Hare that is expanded means less demand for a State-controlled boondoggle airport in Peotone, so why should they cooperate (or put another way, why should taxis ever treat buses kindly?).

Ah, politics. How could I forget?

Why is the state pushing so hard for Peotone anyway? There are obvious benefits (an airport serving residents in the distant south suburbs, reducing congestion at O'Hare), but the negative consequences far exceed any benefits. (inconvenience passengers by being located far from the civilization, lack of rail infastrcture, and billions of dollars spent paving over productive farmland, etc...)

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Mr Man

Ah, politics. How could I forget?

Why is the state pushing so hard for Peotone anyway? There are obvious benefits (an airport serving residents in the distant south suburbs, reducing congestion at O'Hare), but the negative consequences far exceed any benefits. (inconvenience passengers by being located far from the civilization, lack of rail infastrcture, and billions of dollars spent paving over productive farmland, etc...)

You're missing the point; it only tangentially has to do with maximizing citizen benefit or efficient air operations. The state doesn't control the revenue stream and jobs (patronage) factory that is O'Hare Airport, but they would control a Peotone Airport.

[10023]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

You're missing the point; it only tangentially has to do with maximizing citizen benefit or efficient air operations. The state doesn't control the revenue stream and jobs (patronage) factory that is O'Hare Airport, but they would control a Peotone Airport.

Exactly. If it were simple utility in question, then Gary/Chicago would be the logical third airport. Hopefully with a nice high speed express rail connection to downtown. And the ability to expand all it wanted on landfill into the lake, like Hong Kong's airport.

Peotone could maybe be an airport for discount airlines but it doesn't work otherwise. Business travelers won't use it. If it were built and my assistant ever put me on a plane there, I'd tell her to cancel and book me a new ticket.

[Loopy]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

The state doesn't control the revenue stream and jobs (patronage) factory that is O'Hare Airport, but they would control a Peotone Airport.

How true.

I worked at O'Hare for a few years and always got a kick out of how the State of Illinois was cut out of the deal. This flag display says it all:



Chicago, USA !!

[honte]

Originally Posted by 10023

... And the ability to expand all it wanted on landfill into the lake, like Hong Kong's airport.

That might be the best reason not to invest in Gary that I've ever heard.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by 10023

Exactly. If it were simple utility in question, then Gary/Chicago would be the logical third airport. Hopefully with a nice high speed express rail connection to downtown. And the ability to expand all it wanted on landfill into the lake, like Hong Kong's airport.

Peotone could maybe be an airport for discount airlines but it doesn't work otherwise. Business travelers won't use it. If it were built and my assistant ever put me on a plane there, I'd tell her to cancel and book me a new ticket.

Even Gary would most likely be an LCC/discount airport, with maybe a few legacy carriers flying to their hubs for network connectivity. Business travel will probably always be (at least in our lifetimes) to and from O'Hare, barring any major economic development and headquarter relocation to NW Indiana or the Southland. But yeah, Gary is the obvious functional choice for the 3rd airport, if anything because of the reason it already exists. The fact that it has a rail connection to downtown Chicago, easy expressway access, and serves the ~800,000 people in NW Indiana in addition to the hundreds of thousands of Will County/Southern Cook residents who would benefit from Peotone is just gravy.

But of course, the State of Illinois would have even less control of Gary than they do of O'Hare.

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ They could always expand a Gary Airport by razing swaths of Gary since that city sucks anyhow...

[Mr Man]

Midway still kicks all their asses.

OT but does anyone know a good resource for information about the Lake Calumet airport proposal? It probably was a bad idea, but it would have been somewhat cool for Chicago to have three major international airports all within the city limits.

[Chicago Shawn]

^Lake Calumet Airport would have required nearly complete demolition of Hegewisch and the suburb of Burnham, as well rerouting the Calumet River. The longest east-west runway would have also pierced into Indiana. The plan I saw may have not been the finished proposal and it wasn't on a public document.

[brian_b]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

^^^ They could always expand a Gary Airport by razing swaths of Gary since that city sucks anyhow...

If by raze you mean move a few roads and railroad tracks...

[spyguy]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Daley just needs to go Meigs on their asses...

They've put up some signs around Bensenville with the slogan "Don't Meigs with Us" and pictures of Meigs Field and Daley with X's on them.