My, Hasn't It Grown! RSA Battlehouse Tower Update

[MobileAl1]

Today I was in Birmingham and as I traveled along I-65 north I was able to view Alabama's three major cities. In my opinion Mobile is more proogressive than both Montgomery and Birmingham. We were 11 milesoutside of Birmingham and 7 miles outside of Montgomery before there was sign of a civilization coming. On the other hand, we were 24 miles outside of Mobile when civilization began to appear.

And residents of Birmingham, what happen to all of the development that you guys spoke of? Mobile and Baldwin counties together are seeing more development than Jefferson and Shelby counties.

Wonderful pictures SouthSky, you catch Mobile from some beautiful views!

[Blazer85]

Originally Posted by MobileAl1

Today I was in Birmingham and as I traveled along I-65 north I was able to view Alabama's three major cities. In my opinion Mobile is more proogressive than both Montgomery and Birmingham. We were 11 milesoutside of Birmingham and 7 miles outside of Montgomery before there was sign of a civilization coming. On the other hand, we were 24 miles outside of Mobile when civilization began to appear.

And residents of Birmingham, what happen to all of the development that you guys spoke of? Mobile and Baldwin counties together are seeing more development than Jefferson and Shelby counties.

Wonderful pictures SouthSky, you catch Mobile from some beautiful views!

Are you kidding? You really just show how much you really know. Hoover is FIFTEEN miles south of Birmingham on I-65 and it alone is the 6th largest city in the state with around 70,000 people. And yet you say no civilization until 11 miles out? Alabaster, another southern suburb of Birmingham approx. 25 miles out right on I-65, has around 30,000 people and growing.

Now comparing that to Mobile, the first real sign of "civilization" going south on I-65 toward Mobile is Creola (and I'm being generous with that one seeing as how it has less than 3,000 people) which is only 16 miles north of the city. What's 24 miles outside of Mobile? The nearest thing I can tell is the river delta... not much population or "civilization" much beyond there.

*16 miles outside Birmingham = Hoover (pop. 70,000)
*16 miles outside Mobile = Creola (pop. 3,000)

Jefferson County has got SO much more going on right now than Mobile County. Now with the Gulf Coast, I'm sure there's alot going on there. But Mobile vs Jefferson County is no question. Mobile has a more high profile project in the RSA Tower, but Jefferson County has more than a dozen 9+ story buildings under construction or approved. Most of those are in the $20-25M range, but one is at least $40M and another just recently completed was $90M.

And dont let that fool you...there are lots of significant developments bigger than that. The 8-story Social Security Administration building currently under construction in Birmingham is at a cost of around $160M. Also...dont forget the Wachovia Data Center being built here at a cost of $400M. Also probably shouldnt forget the expansion plans at the Birmingham Intl Airport totaling approximately $150M more. Corporate Realty also recently announced a 16-story mixed-use facility that will cost around $150M more. Ross Bridge, just completed, was $65M. Caufield Square, a retail development in Gardendale, is now under construction... about $50M. Medical Center East is seeing an $80M expansion. St. Vincents is just finishing up a $120M expansion plan. UAB's North Pavilion just finished a year or two ago... $275M. Soho Square, a retail development in Homewood, another $55M. Academy Business Park...$100M. Colonial Promenade Alabaster... $80M. Colonial Pinnacle at Tutwiler Farms... $75M. The $115M UAB Woman and Infants Hospital is getting ready to break ground. Same goes for the $75M BassPro shop in Leeds. Oh yeah... and cant forget the $1B Northern Beltline or the many many millions going into I-22. It goes on and on my friend... billions of dollars.

I know it's an RSA thread... but you asked.

[alon504]

I've been to both cities in Alabama, numerous times. And although, I think Mobile will pass Birmingham in a couple of decades, unless Birmingham makes some changes, there is no question, today, Birmingham is much more expansive than Mobile.

[Blazer85]

Originally Posted by alon504

I've been to both cities in Alabama, numerous times. And although, I think Mobile will pass Birmingham in a couple of decades, unless Birmingham makes some changes, there is no question, today, Birmingham is much more expansive than Mobile.

Exactly. It's anyone's guess as to whether the difference between Birmingham and Mobile will still exist 2-3 decades from now... that's debateable. But the here and now is Birmingham. Especially when you go talking about how there's no civilization until 11 miles outside the city? Are you kidding me? Birmingham is KNOWN for how spread out the metropolitan area stretches.

It will take some MAJOR stalls by Birmingham and some rapid growth by Mobile to surpass Birmingham. Dow was a great mayor... the new guy hasnt been around long enough to judge, but from what I can tell already he's not as progressive as Dow.

[austin356]

I am not going to keep this up because the Ham vs the Mob debates never never ever get anywhere positive. The five five older brother and six foot younger brother just need to stop the intrastate resentment and work together for the better off both cities, this goes way deeper than just skyscraper forums; this is a constant routine in the state that is pretty dumb.

Mobile people (not just from this forum) - Birmingham is currently the most important city in the state and for AL to have a decent reputation on the national level Birmingham absolutely has to be sucessful. I dont care if mobile grows at 4 times the rate of birmingham, the ham will retain its importance for the foreseable future (at least a couple of decades).

Birmingham people (not just on this forum) - many from the ham seem kinda almost to the point of threated by the fairly progressive city to the south; yes mobile metro will be expanding at a more rapid % pace (to bad though most will happen in sprawlville, baldwin co, which will have b/t 230-250k in ten years) over foreseeable future (mostly due to location). Have to remember that in your state there is a city of perpetual potential that never got its shot in the light, its bound to happen sometime, there is too much potential by the bay for it to wait for Birmingham to resolve its problems. What you need to do is worry about keeping the attractive female lawyers who have boldly moved downtown safe from thugs, not try to outdo a city half your size. Ooo yea, and LET us have casinos downtown!!!!

[Musicisright]

Please remember that MobileAl1 does not speak for all Mobile forumers. He likes to shake things up by making remarks that spark city vs. city arguments, but that's just one person. I'd say most of us have nothin' but love for B'ham.

[lolzxzxlolzxzx]

Originally Posted by Blazer85

Are you kidding? You really just show how much you really know. Hoover is FIFTEEN miles south of Birmingham on I-65 and it alone is the 6th largest city in the state with around 70,000 people. And yet you say no civilization until 11 miles out? Alabaster, another southern suburb of Birmingham approx. 25 miles out right on I-65, has around 30,000 people and growing.

Now comparing that to Mobile, the first real sign of "civilization" going south on I-65 toward Mobile is Creola (and I'm being generous with that one seeing as how it has less than 3,000 people) which is only 16 miles north of the city. What's 24 miles outside of Mobile? The nearest thing I can tell is the river delta... not much population or "civilization" much beyond there.

*16 miles outside Birmingham = Hoover (pop. 70,000)
*16 miles outside Mobile = Creola (pop. 3,000)

Jefferson County has got SO much more going on right now than Mobile County. Now with the Gulf Coast, I'm sure there's alot going on there. But Mobile vs Jefferson County is no question. Mobile has a more high profile project in the RSA Tower, but Jefferson County has more than a dozen 9+ story buildings under construction or approved. Most of those are in the $20-25M range, but one is at least $40M and another just recently completed was $90M.

And dont let that fool you...there are lots of significant developments bigger than that. The 8-story Social Security Administration building currently under construction in Birmingham is at a cost of around $160M. Also...dont forget the Wachovia Data Center being built here at a cost of $400M. Also probably shouldnt forget the expansion plans at the Birmingham Intl Airport totaling approximately $150M more. Corporate Realty also recently announced a 16-story mixed-use facility that will cost around $150M more. Ross Bridge, just completed, was $65M. Caufield Square, a retail development in Gardendale, is now under construction... about $50M. Medical Center East is seeing an $80M expansion. St. Vincents is just finishing up a $120M expansion plan. UAB's North Pavilion just finished a year or two ago... $275M. Soho Square, a retail development in Homewood, another $55M. Academy Business Park...$100M. Colonial Promenade Alabaster... $80M. Colonial Pinnacle at Tutwiler Farms... $75M. The $115M UAB Woman and Infants Hospital is getting ready to break ground. Same goes for the $75M BassPro shop in Leeds. Oh yeah... and cant forget the $1B Northern Beltline or the many many millions going into I-22. It goes on and on my friend... billions of dollars.

I know it's an RSA thread... but you asked.

blah blah blah

[elb401]

I think the city vs. city debates are stupid. Mobile is not in competition with b-ham. Both cities can out do the other one in a lot of different areas. People need to stop being so defensive on the forums. Also people shouldn't say remarks that are going to trigger those kinds of debates. The people of the Bay area don't hear much about the developments in B-ham and I'm sure people up there don't hear much about our progress.

[MobileAl1]

This is not an arguement! Read my first two sentenses. I begin with, In my opinion......this is a forum where you express your opinions.

When it comes down, Mobile is the most important city in Alabama because of the effects it has on the entire state. Mobile is the leader in the state because cities like Birmingham model Mobile in developmental growth. Whether you people in Birmingham realize or not, Mobile sets standards in the State of Alabama.

And Blazer85, the MAJOR stalls by Birmingham and rapid growth for Mobile to surpass Birmingham are already in place. In the next census, Mobile will be near or surpass Birmingham's population. Also Baldwin County will be Alabama's fastest growing county.

[thoraudio]

Originally Posted by MobileAl1

And Blazer85, the MAJOR stalls by Birmingham and rapid growth for Mobile to surpass Birmingham are already in place. In the next census, Mobile will be near or surpass Birmingham's population. Also Baldwin County will be Alabama's fastest growing county.

have you ever looked at a pop growth table? Census estimates? Anything like that?

If Mobile (city or MSA) was showing Huntsville or Auburn/Opelika type growth, you may be correct... but it's not....

for the record, VS. threads suck.

The building looks great, good for Mobile and Alabama (so says the Montgomery homer).

[Exodus]

Originally Posted by austin356

not try to outdo a city half your size.

Birmingham has about 230,000, and Mobile has about 200,000. Metro Birmingham has somewhere between 900,000 and 1 million, and Metro Mobile has something like 570,000 to maybe 600,000 by now. I admit there is a little bit of a spread in metro populations, but still, Birmingham isn't twice the size of Mobile. I really haven't kept up with what the Birmingham areas growth rate is like, but I do know that the Mobile area is in somewhat of a boom. Which as far as I know, even the metro population gap is closing between the two cities, and Mobiles metro population is already getting close to 2/3rds that of Birminghams metro area population. So no, Birmingham isn't twice as big as Mobile, not by a long shot. I'm not taking sides, I just thought I would try to clear up the subject of population difference.

[SteveD]

As a population statistic freak, I thought it would be helpful to post a few numbers.

Birmingham MSA July '05: 1,090,126 3.6% growth since July '00
Mobile MSA July '05: 401,427 0.4% growth since July '00

Both areas also have CSAs, and Birmingham's (Birmingham Hooover Cullman - 1,150,961) is roughly twice the size of Mobile's (Mobile Daphne Fairhope - 551,578), as of July '03.

I'm excited about growth and development in both areas, but it's not likely that Mobile's MSA or CSA will surpass Birmingham's MSA or CSA any time soon, and, if current growth rates persist, ever. Birmingham is likely to be Alabama's largest metro for the foreseeable future.

[thoraudio]

Originally Posted by Exodus

So no, Birmingham isn't twice as big as Mobile, not by a long shot. I'm not taking sides, I just thought I would try to clear up the subject of population difference.

see Steve's numbers....

Huntsville will soon pass Mobile in the MSA department, with Montgomery not far behind.

But is that a bad thing? No... Not if Mobile is still growing...

we need to focus on growth (population and economic) for the whole state...

[Exodus]

Originally Posted by SteveD

As a population statistic freak, I thought it would be helpful to post a few numbers.

Birmingham MSA July '05: 1,090,126 3.6% growth since July '00
Mobile MSA July '05: 401,427 0.4% growth since July '00

Both areas also have CSAs, and Birmingham's (Birmingham Hooover Cullman - 1,150,961) is roughly twice the size of Mobile's (Mobile Daphne Fairhope - 551,578), as of July '03.

I'm excited about growth and development in both areas, but it's not likely that Mobile's MSA or CSA will surpass Birmingham's MSA or CSA any time soon, and, if current growth rates persist, ever. Birmingham is likely to be Alabama's largest metro for the foreseeable future.

In the first figures you compared what would most likely be the standard metro poulation of Birmingham to just Mobile county. Also according to your second figures; Mobiles metro population would have had to shrink by at least 20,000 in the last year or two, but those figures are slightly older than the ones I am going by, so your figures are not quite as correct as mine.

[Exodus]

Originally Posted by thoraudio

see Steve's numbers....

Huntsville will soon pass Mobile in the MSA department, with Montgomery not far behind.

But is that a bad thing? No... Not if Mobile is still growing...

we need to focus on growth (population and economic) for the whole state...

Huntsville probably has the worst sprawl out of all the major cities in the state. It can have a million people as far as I'm concerned, but it still won't be a metro imo, because it will be more or less just a north Alabama population.

[HSVTiger]

This probably changes weekly

Huntsville, 174 sq. miles
Birmingham, 150 sq. miles
Montgomery, 134 sq. miles
Mobile, 118 sq. miles

[Exodus]

Call me crazy, but when it comes to downtowns, I like Huntsvilles downtown better than Birminhhams or Montgomerys. I'm not talking size mind you, but set up.

[Mopacs]

Originally Posted by thoraudio

see Steve's numbers....

Huntsville will soon pass Mobile in the MSA department, with Montgomery not far behind.

But is that a bad thing? No... Not if Mobile is still growing...

we need to focus on growth (population and economic) for the whole state...

Though its doubtful the two metros will ever combine into a CSA, one can't forget about the proximity of the Pensacola metro. That adds at least 400-500k? The gap along the coastline is closing anyways (Gulf Shores, Orange Beach, etc.)..from suburban Baldwin County.

[jcathens]

Mobile and Augusta, GA are pretty close in size I see.

[thoraudio]

grabbing other MSA's for a larger CSA is NOT real growth...

if we're going to look that way, then the Montgomery-Auburn-Opelika-Columbus triad will pwn joo all!!!11