Canadian Airport Thread II

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Doesn't YUL also have an incredibly high connection rate? Especially in comparison to YYC which is primarily a domestic connection airport? Or am I understanding this backwards?

As a rate, Calgary has the highest number of connecting passengers in Canada. IE % of people who are connecting.

In absolute terms Montreal (And Toronto) may be higher.

I am pulling this from memory, but pre pandemic about 35% of passengers in Montreal and Toronto were connecting and it was close to 50% in Calgary.

[LeftCoaster]

Makes sense, but in Nofly's post he said dometic connections are not counted twice whereas international are. YUL is definitely much more of an international connection airport and YYC is definitely much more of a domestic connection airport, so it seems like YYC shouldn't have as inflated numbers as an airport more internationally focussed. (If I am understanding correctly)

[Myst]

I had been looking at data for a few US airports over the weekend that listed multiple tables with different counting methods for connections, but darned if I can find the ones I was looking at again.

The point with data is:
1. Be careful with comparisons to try to use consistent data. I work enough during the day with data to see people often wonder why numbers don’t add up, only to find 2018 and 2019 numbers are different sources, for example. Or worse yet, Q1 and Q2…
2. The data needs to be appropriate for the intended use. Counting a connection twice might make sense for looking at seat capacity in and out of an airport, but in terms of burden on a terminal, walking from one gate to another might make sense to count once as it creates less crowding than two passengers, one arriving and walking to arrivals and one going from departures to the gate. And in terms of real demand, ignoring connections may be the right measure.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Doesn't YUL also have an incredibly high connection rate? Especially in comparison to YYC which is primarily a domestic connection airport? Or am I understanding this backwards?

I believe YUL's connection rate is under 20%.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

As a rate, Calgary has the highest number of connecting passengers in Canada. IE % of people who are connecting.

In absolute terms Montreal (And Toronto) may be higher.

I am pulling this from memory, but pre pandemic about 35% of passengers in Montreal and Toronto were connecting and it was close to 50% in Calgary.

For comparison, pre-pandemic YOW was by far the lowest for connections between the 8 biggest airports at only 6%. PD is on the verge of changing that for YOW.

[Base]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Makes sense, but in Nofly's post he said dometic connections are not counted twice whereas international are. YUL is definitely much more of an international connection airport and YYC is definitely much more of a domestic connection airport, so it seems like YYC shouldn't have as inflated numbers as an airport more internationally focussed. (If I am understanding correctly)

Just a note, domestic connections are counted twice, what aren’t counted twice are passengers on a same plane (flight #) direct flight that is transiting through an airport.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

As a rate, Calgary has the highest number of connecting passengers in Canada. IE % of people who are connecting.

In absolute terms Montreal (And Toronto) may be higher.

I am pulling this from memory, but pre pandemic about 35% of passengers in Montreal and Toronto were connecting and it was close to 50% in Calgary.

They need to fix the poor state of trans border connections or westjets minimums need to be increased. I did a connection there today. Security lines moved slowly just made my connection with a few minutes to spare because acomidating passenger let us cut in front . As for the 10 WestJet flight crew that cut in front saying “we are working and have priority” when you have passengers scrambling to make a connection was less than impressive.

While I am ok with the concept of flight crew quee jumping it needs to do done with a bit more structure than how YYC does it.

The CASTA people did nothing. In Vancouver or Toro to terminal 1 they segregate connecting passengers and the airline and airport staff are more active in making certain people are successful in making connections. Not Calgary..

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

As a rate, Calgary has the highest number of connecting passengers in Canada. IE % of people who are connecting.

In absolute terms Montreal (And Toronto) may be higher.

I am pulling this from memory, but pre pandemic about 35% of passengers in Montreal and Toronto were connecting and it was close to 50% in Calgary.

Interesting points.

In Mid October 2023 I did an Asia trip✈️ ,from Edmonton (YEG)-Vancouver (YVR)-Seoul (ICN) - Hong Kong (HKG) & coming back end of November did HKG-ICN-YVR-YEG. I passed through these 4 airports & 2 times each.

So I’m counted as a Domestic passenger for both YVR/YEG & then as an International passenger for YVR,ICN & HKG as well too correct?

[Alexcaban]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

I believe YUL's connection rate is under 20%.

I'm gonna go ahead and say it a little bit higher now a days with all of the new AC additions, same goes for YYZ.

YUL recently opened a new customs hall just for domestic and international connecting passengers, they see a CBSA officer and then go right back into the terminal for their connecting flights.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

Interesting points.

In Mid October 2023 I did an Asia trip✈️ ,from Edmonton (YEG)-Vancouver (YVR)-Seoul (ICN) - Hong Kong (HKG) & coming back end of November did HKG-ICN-YVR-YEG. I passed through these 4 airports & 2 times each.

So I’m counted as a Domestic passenger for both YVR/YEG & then as an International passenger for YVR,ICN & HKG as well too correct?

correct

[People_talking]

There is a rumour floating around that a merger between to canadian ULCCs is currently being worked out…

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Base

Just a note, domestic connections are counted twice, what aren’t counted twice are passengers on a same plane (flight #) direct flight that is transiting through an airport.

Got it. Those seem like they'd be quite rare.

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by People_talking

There is a rumour floating around that a merger between to canadian ULCCs is currently being worked out…

There are only really two ULCCs of significance/relevance in Canada, so...........

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Thanks. I wonder how many airports count those thru pax? Never knew that was a standard. Wonder if they're counted as enplaned or deplaned or 'transit'?

Very little is my guess. Most everyone probably only counts enplaned/deplaned. It's much easier that way I think.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Doesn't YUL also have an incredibly high connection rate? Especially in comparison to YYC which is primarily a domestic connection airport? Or am I understanding this backwards?

No. YUL's connection rate is higher now, with AC's additions of late, but 5-10 years ago, it was around 15-20%. Now it's probably closer to 25-30%. Still well below YYC.

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

As a rate, Calgary has the highest number of connecting passengers in Canada. IE % of people who are connecting.

Correct.

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

I am pulling this from memory, but pre pandemic about 35% of passengers in Montreal and Toronto were connecting and it was close to 50% in Calgary.

Montreal is probably getting close to 30% connecting now, but it's never been that high. Historically, it's always been around 80% O&D, 20% connections.

Originally Posted by Dominion301

I believe YUL's connection rate is under 20%.

Was. Not anymore.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Makes sense, but in Nofly's post he said dometic connections are not counted twice whereas international are. YUL is definitely much more of an international connection airport and YYC is definitely much more of a domestic connection airport, so it seems like YYC shouldn't have as inflated numbers as an airport more internationally focussed. (If I am understanding correctly)

No. The only connections counted once have to be domestic, AND same flight number (i.e. a through flight). There aren't many of those, so most every connecting passenger is counted twice.

Originally Posted by Base

Just a note, domestic connections are counted twice, what aren’t counted twice are passengers on a same plane (flight #) direct flight that is transiting through an airport.

Same flight number. But it can be different planes, according to ICAO.

Originally Posted by Alexcaban

I'm gonna go ahead and say it a little bit higher now a days with all of the new AC additions, same goes for YYZ.

YUL recently opened a new customs hall just for domestic and international connecting passengers, they see a CBSA officer and then go right back into the terminal for their connecting flights.

Correct.

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by casper

They need to fix the poor state of trans border connections or westjets minimums need to be increased. I did a connection there today. Security lines moved slowly just made my connection with a few minutes to spare because acomidating passenger let us cut in front . As for the 10 WestJet flight crew that cut in front saying “we are working and have priority” when you have passengers scrambling to make a connection was less than impressive.

While I am ok with the concept of flight crew quee jumping it needs to do done with a bit more structure than how YYC does it.

The CASTA people did nothing. In Vancouver or Toro to terminal 1 they segregate connecting passengers and the airline and airport staff are more active in making certain people are successful in making connections. Not Calgary..

In YYC, aircrews got a memo from Transport Canada some time ago stating that they are no longer able to use a separate access point for transborder flights and have to use the passenger access point. I’m not sure of the reason why the change was made, nor if the airport authority has space allocated for a separate security point for aircrew or not.

[JakeLRS]

Jetlines adds

YYZ-YHZ 2x weekly starting in June
YHZ-MCO 2x weekly starting in June.

In the battle for the stupidest executive decisions, I can't determine a winner between Lynx and Jetlines. Jetlines barely fills their planes as it is.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by JakeLRS

Jetlines adds

YYZ-YHZ 2x weekly starting in June
YHZ-MCO 2x weekly starting in June.

In the battle for the stupidest executive decisions, I can't determine a winner between Lynx and Jetlines. Jetlines barely fills their planes as it is.

One has to wonder how much money they're burning through.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by whatnext

One has to wonder how much money they're burning through.

Demand for YHZ-Florida during the summertime is actually quite strong but gunning to be #6 on YYZ-YHZ is utterly insane. YYZ-MCO-YHZ-MCO-YYZ W pattern would make a lot more sense …but even that’s a stretch.

Jetlines in Q3 2023 believe it or not managed to turn a $400k net profit but that was also the peak of charter flying hours where it takes an absolute genius to lose money on charter flying.

[casper]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

In YYC, aircrews got a memo from Transport Canada some time ago stating that they are no longer able to use a separate access point for transborder flights and have to use the passenger access point. I’m not sure of the reason why the change was made, nor if the airport authority has space allocated for a separate security point for aircrew or not.

My experience with transborder was no one cares if your connecting and are off a delayed flight. You go into the regular line. When we got to the front we were directed over to the trusted traveler lane on the left and just as you start to make some progress another set of westjet crew show up.

It is like night and day when you compare YYC to the big boy airports.

[thenoflyzone]

I use the US customs MPC app on my phone at YUL. It’s almost like NEXUS. Clear through in a matter of seconds, and bypass the regular lineup.