Barrhaven LRT | Proposed

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold

Better idea is to build it on the site of the former Confederation High School. None of the land around it seems to be used for much.

Or the city just builds an equivalent or more of affordable housing on the strip north of Knoxdale for people to move into before demolishing the townhouses. Then they can build even more when the LRT is put in place. They can house thousands more than those crappy townhomes.

Picture something like this quick sketch I did, and imagine a continuous linear arrangement (with a bit of modulation and variety) stretching from Tallwood to West Hunt Club:

[Uhuniau]

That's a sweet sketch!

[J.OT13]

That's what we should be aiming for. Build on top of the alignment where possible. Vancouver does it in some areas, why can't we?

[OCCheetos]

The full Barrhaven extension is now estimated to cost $4.019B (in 2023 dollars).

https://pub-ottawa.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=120534

The extension to just Fallowfield is estimated at $2.7B

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

The full Barrhaven extension is now estimated to cost $4.019B (in 2023 dollars).

https://pub-ottawa.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=120534

The extension to just Fallowfield is estimated at $2.7B

Wild.

Just run buses every 3-5 minutes from Baseline Station to Strandherd Station along the existing, segregated, transit corridor. Run them every 5-8 from Baseline to Riverview. Woodroffe between Fallowfield and Strandherd roads does not have bus lanes, but likely this would not effect performance much.

Reinstate the 74 going to Riverview... the fact that it doesn't right now is mind boggling.

Eliminate these high frequency buses performing the local routes near the end of the line (the 75 that runs into Half Moon Bay for example). This is where the on-time performance takes a huge hit. If demand is high to this area, run buses every 5-8 mins from Standherd/Marketplace to Half Moon Bay. The max amount of time someone would wait for this transfer would be ~5 mins.

Reinstall the transit priority lights on Woodroffe. When I went to Carleton 15 years ago and commuted from Barrhaven, there was a transit priority signal at Hunt Club and Meadowlands for the in-bound buses. Why was the one at Hunt Club taken away? A bus full of 100 people should trigger the light almost immediately. Imagine 100 cars waiting for the light instead? Install these at Knoxdale and Norice as well. The bus stops area already on the other side of the intersection, so the bus can cross the light, pick up folks, and be on it's way.

I am a giant advocate for rail transit... but 4+ billion will easily turn into 6 when all is said and done.

[Truenorth00]

Fallowfield is necessary. Especially to connect to the VIA station. Beyond that is debatable.

[waterloowarrior]

$2.7 billion (including grade separations) to get to a station that already has a BRT line and a direct rail connection to Ottawa's main bus rail transfer station? Hopefully Ottawa can drop this plan and just work with the feds to share costs when HFR/HSR is built

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

The full Barrhaven extension is now estimated to cost $4.019B (in 2023 dollars).

https://pub-ottawa.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=120534

The extension to just Fallowfield is estimated at $2.7B

How much of that is for the grade separations with VIA’s tracks?

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by roger1818

How much of that is for the grade separations with VIA’s tracks?

Somewhere north of 430M for the grade separation was the 2017 estimate

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/rail-grade-separation-costs-ottawa-bus-train-crash-1.4140069

Also, the idea that Ottawa could just run trains on the existing freight lines that exist is again being put forth, with the idea that it would be cheap.....It being cheap because it would be low frequency, at-grade, cement pad stations, and chain link fences...If thats "good" enough then phase 3 LRT could be much much cheaper....Though trillium stage 2 is costing $668 million for just ~12 minute frequencies.. (just infrastructure no maintenance)

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by roger1818

How much of that is for the grade separations with VIA’s tracks?

$535M is the revised estimate.

To extend the line just to Fallowfield would cost $2.7B (which includes the grade separations).

[Nowhere]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Reinstall the transit priority lights on Woodroffe. When I went to Carleton 15 years ago and commuted from Barrhaven, there was a transit priority signal at Hunt Club and Meadowlands for the in-bound buses. Why was the one at Hunt Club taken away? A bus full of 100 people should trigger the light almost immediately. Imagine 100 cars waiting for the light instead? Install these at Knoxdale and Norice as well.

When did they stop using transit priority on Woodroffe ? First time I hear about that.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

$535M is the revised estimate.

To extend the line just to Fallowfield would cost $2.7B (which includes the grade separations).

So since the $535M will be spent either way, the extension to Fallowfield actually costs an extra $2.2B, or is that $535M per grade separation (there are 3 if you include Woodruff, which shouldn’t be part of the OTrain budget, but I could see the city including it anyway)?

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by roger1818

So since the $535M will be spent either way, the extension to Fallowfield actually costs an extra $2.2B, or is that $535M per grade separation (there are 3 if you include Woodruff, which shouldn’t be part of the OTrain budget, but I could see the city including it anyway)?

It's planned to happen either way due to the 2013 accident. They want it separated.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

It's planned to happen either way due to the 2013 accident. They want it separated.

That’s exactly my point. While we need to budget for (and get funding for) the full $2.2B, the incremental cost would be less, since some of the project will be done either way.

As for the cost of extending to do the full extension, I assume some of the extra cost is to build a third MSF?

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That’s exactly my point. While we need to budget for (and get funding for) the full $2.2B, the incremental cost would be less, since some of the project will be done either way.

As for the cost of extending to do the full extension, I assume some of the extra cost is to build a third MSF?

Yes it is, a maintenance facility will be housed near Strandherd and Longfields station. Something important to should consider as well.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

When did they stop using transit priority on Woodroffe ? First time I hear about that.

Pre-transitway (the stretch from Nepean Sportsplex to Fallowfield), there was a transit priority signal on Woodroffe at Hunt Club. It was removed when the transitway opened because the buses no longer had to "queue jump", or merge, since their lane did not end after the Hunt Club intersection anymore.

I was suggesting that the priority signals be put back into place. Right now, the one on Woodroffe northbound at Meadowlands still exists but that's it.

September 2007 - Woodroffe looking south at Hunt Club:

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Pre-transitway (the stretch from Nepean Sportsplex to Fallowfield), there was a transit priority signal on Woodroffe at Hunt Club. It was removed when the transitway opened because the buses no longer had to "queue jump", or merge, since their lane did not end after the Hunt Club intersection anymore.

I was suggesting that the priority signals be put back into place. Right now, the one on Woodroffe northbound at Meadowlands still exists but that's it.

But why reinstall the transit priority signals if the bus lanes are continuous? I guess they could be useful if you could insert a quick (approx. 8-10 second) transit-specific phase into the signal cycle (for example, after the westbound left / eastbound left phase). That could cut-down transit delay.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

The full Barrhaven extension is now estimated to cost $4.019B (in 2023 dollars).

https://pub-ottawa.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=120534

The extension to just Fallowfield is estimated at $2.7B

Nearly double Stage 1, for few kilometers, fewer stations and no underground tunnel. Transit inflation is 150%.

[J.OT13]

Gower: It's time for a bus-centred rethink of transit to Barrhaven and Stittsville

Per kilometre, the cost to build bus rapid transit is a fraction of the cost of rail. The infrastructure can usually be built in a fraction of the time too.

April 17, 2023

It’s time to rethink our plans for bringing light rail all the way to Barrhaven and Stittsville, and focus instead on new bus rapid transit (BRT) infrastructure.

That’s going to be a controversial idea for many people. For the past two decades we’ve been focused on trains instead of buses, but with rising construction costs and changing travel patterns post-pandemic, the cost of light rail is getting harder to justify — even with help from other levels of government.

This is not in any way to suggest that the current light rail projects were a mistake. The O-Train will move tens of thousands of passengers through our city for decades to come. And rail may be needed in the future toward the south and west — just not now.

The current construction of Stage 2 light rail will bring the O-Train south to the airport and Limebank Road, east to Trim Road, west to Moodie Drive, and south to Algonquin College. The southern extensions should open later this year, with the entire project scheduled to be finished late in 2026.

The latest estimate to extend Stage 3 light rail to Kanata and Stittsville is $2.5 billion, and $4 billion to build it to Barrhaven. Even if we were to begin construction today, it could still be a decade until these lines are ready to go.

Bus rapid transit could be the solution. I’m thinking separated, bus-only infrastructure like the kilometres of transitway we’ve had in Ottawa for years. (Our transitway system was the envy of many cities when it was first introduced in the 1980s.)

Per kilometre, the cost to build BRT is a fraction of the cost of rail. The infrastructure can usually be built in a fraction of the time too. The capacity is less (bus rapid transit moves up to 9,000 people an hour versus 18,000 for light rail) but it could be better matched to the new hybrid-work commuting demand.

It’s an approach other cities are warming up to. In 2021, construction started on the South Dade TransitWay in Miami, Fla. It’s a 32-km busway with 14 stations, scheduled to be completed in 2024. Level crossing gates and signal priority ensure the buses will never stop at a traffic light. Total cost: about $370 million U.S. (In comparison, the Stage 2 light rail project currently under construction is around $4.7 billion for 44 kilometres and 24 stations.)

I can see a case for extending light rail from Moodie Drive as far as Eagleson Road or Terry Fox Drive, then connecting to a bus-only transitway in two directions: north along March Road toward the technology park, and west towards Stittsville. In the south, a few improvements (bridges, priority traffic signals, etc.) could segregate buses along Woodroffe Avenue, linking deep into Barrhaven via the existing transitway.

With the money saved, we could then move up the timeframe to (finally) build a transitway east to South Orléans. And we can accelerate the timeline for dedicated transit priority lanes and traffic signals along east-west corridors such as Hazeldean-Robertson-Baseline-Heron, and Carling Avenue.

The price tag for all of this would still be in the hundreds of millions of dollars, but it’s a far cry from the billions we would need for Stage 3 light rail. We would see a massive improvement to trip times and improved access to transit. It would jump-start our efforts to reduce car dependency, which would reduce greenhouse gases and lower congestion.

Over the next two years, Ottawa Council will be finalizing its Transportation Master Plan and Long Range Financial Plan for transit. So, the timing is right to revisit past decisions and move quickly to improve transit in Ottawa.

Glen Gower is the city councillor for Stittsville, ward 6. He is chair of the city’s transit commission.

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/gower-...-of-transit-to-barrhaven-and-stittsville

[roger1818]

I have been saying this for years (though I do also see value in an extension to Fallowfield).