98 James St S | 112.5 m | 34 fl | Planning

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Bet they ask for taller, to offset the cost of the property transaction.

And this would be a perfect site for it. I'm sure the usual complaints would be made by the usual suspects, but there's really nothing around this that would be negatively affected by 35, 40, 45+ floors. Not that we'll see that kind of height here, but it's an area where the arguments against are weak.

they have a relatively low risk path to 34 storeys given 75 James across the street, but anything higher than that is going to be very high risk as there is no precedence for it yet downtown.

Don't get me wrong, I would love a developer take on the downtown height limit and try to really break it after the half-dozen cracks in it have already occurred.. but I'm not sure that it would lead to a higher valuation as it's so high risk.

My bet the value here is that it has an approved site plan agreement, and that Milborne is betting on varying the application up to 34 storeys. That would get it up to ~350 units to spread that cost around a bit more - and Milborne could move quickly to sales and construction.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Don't get me wrong, I would love a developer take on the downtown height limit and try to really break it after the half-dozen cracks in it have already occurred.. but I'm not sure that it would lead to a higher valuation as it's so high risk.

My bet the value here is that it has an approved site plan agreement, and that Milborne is betting on varying the application up to 34 storeys. That would get it up to ~350 units to spread that cost around a bit more - and Milborne could move quickly to sales and construction.

Isn't the height limit gonzo? As-of-right zoning remains, as well as pre-existing approvals, but I thought the battle against it was no longer being fought by the city?

I think you're right about them asking for a few more floors though. Nothing outrageous. There's a strong case that if the church facade is to be retained, something has to happen behind it and after two failed visions the third time may be the charm.

[Innsertnamehere]

The city doesn't like it still but there are now several precedents for going slightly over the height limit - Television City and 75 James break it and were approved after it was put in place. Both are IIRC around 15 metres above the height limit.

My understanding is that staff are still heavily pushing to not be taller than Landmark Place though, which gives you maybe 35-36 floors instead of 30. Going for 45 storeys is still going to be problematic and will likely require a long battle at the OLT.

Of course the other side of it is that many sites have 30 storeys as of right - is it really worth it to delay the project for years to fight for 45 if you can get shovels in the ground in a year or so with existing entitlements for 30 storeys (or 34 with a quick variance?)?

[ScreamingViking]

It will be interesting to see what happens when the first proposal (downtown) comes in that would eclipse Landmark... which will forever remain Century 21 to me.

[ScreamingViking]

The full article gets into some of the history.


The Connolly changes owners for the third time as church redevelopment saga continues
Latest owner says project was sold to consortium of investors in early September

Sebastian Bron
The Hamilton Spectator
Thu., Sept. 22, 2022


https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilto...velopment.html
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%...velopment.html

...

In an interview with The Spectator, Le Nam said the sale stemmed from financial troubles his firm — Hue Developments, a subsidiary of the giant Vietnam-based Hoa Binh Corp. — incurred during the pandemic.

“Partnerships have been discussed for several months because our Vietnamese shareholders have not been able to mobilize funds since the COVID-19 pandemic,” he said, noting Hue Developments also backed out of four unfinished developments in Southeast Asia.

...


Le Nam said confidentiality terms in the sale agreement bar him from discussing such information. He did concede, however, that his firm is “losing money” off their original investment and said that the development is in “good hands.”

“They’re going to start construction to stabilize the church from now until December,” he said of the mystery investor group. “They will keep the development plans.”

...

On Tuesday, the Milborne Group, a consulting firm with realtor partnerships across Canada, told The Spec it is leading the consortium’s new marketing and sales campaign.

“The direction of the group is to proceed (with) development, positioning this landmark, unique condominium in Hamilton’s marketplace,” Michael Budovitch, Milborne’s vice-president of special projects, said via email.

Budovitch said his firm doesn’t own the property and is only acting as a consultant for the investor group. He added members of that group will make themselves public once the project’s marketing campaign is underway.

...

Le Nam said the Connolly sold no new units under his tutelage. Those who placed deposits for units offered during Santaguida’s reign have received their money back in full, he added.

Meanwhile, the timing of COVID relative to Le Nam’s takeover of the property meant construction plans were slow to materialize from the get-go. Besides general upkeep and debris clearing around the site, he said crews never even broke ground.

“The best solution for the development was a sale to a consortium who has over 50 years experience in the building industry.”

What’s next for the development is what Le Nam referred to as a clean slate. City-approved heritage and building permits will be transferred to the new owners, he said, and the project’s architects remain involved in the project.

“We’re excited about the new partnership,” said William Neal of McCallum Sather Architects. “This file has been ongoing for a while, and we’re just really looking forward to taking the next step.”

But the new owners will have to get a move on construction.

The city’s director of planning said the development’s building permit expires in early 2023.

“They can apply for an extension before their heritage permit expires,” said Steve Robichaud, noting the latter is still valid for 24 months. “I think everyone in the city would like to see this project move forward.”

...

[TheHonestMaple]

Wow so this could all actually be happening very soon. That's exciting.

[ScreamingViking]

Hopefully it does get started. Lest it become the subject of another chapter in Hamilton's Book of Failed Dreams (joining various Stinson plans, that Barton/Tiffany proposal, perhaps but hopefully not the Tivoli... etc., etc., etc.)

[mikevbar1]

So glad that this project has been picked up. Its ironic that the best projects have all been on shoddy financial standing, as they are the ones that have struggled to get built despite what they have represented. Those @screamingviking mentioned plus the Connaught of course come to mind. That said, the influx of Toronto developers has shown they recognize the value of these proposals, and they will all likely get bought out and built quite quickly given their primary issue has been financing. It's a positive change and I'm hopeful all of them will get built. The 'Book of Failed Dreams' should hopefully be mostly over now, and maybe have some pages torn out if big players keep getting involved

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by mikevbar1

So glad that this project has been picked up. Its ironic that the best projects have all been on shoddy financial standing, as they are the ones that have struggled to get built despite what they have represented. Those @screamingviking mentioned plus the Connaught of course come to mind. That said, the influx of Toronto developers has shown they recognize the value of these proposals, and they will all likely get bought out and built quite quickly given their primary issue has been financing. It's a positive change and I'm hopeful all of them will get built. The 'Book of Failed Dreams' should hopefully be mostly over now, and maybe have some pages torn out if big players keep getting involved

I still think core urban should just rebuild all of downtown - at least their stuff is appealing to look at and respects heritage.

[Innsertnamehere]

https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings...umentId=348680

Heritage permit being renewed.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings...umentId=348680

Heritage permit being renewed.

Wish the city could force their hand or something....

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Wish the city could force their hand or something....

There are new owners here who paid the highest price ever paid for development land in Hamilton - I'm sure they don't want to be sitting around. I'd be surprised if we don't see something more here soon.

[Markus83]

Bloody get on with it, if that is what has been holding this up this whole time and two thirds of it are already gone, well take few snaps of it and let the rest come down. Common Sense Department seems to be on the lag once again.
Hopefully not offending anyone, apologies for if I do. I am just tired of walking by this almost everyday and seeing it a heaping pile of mess. It really is a shame they can't jimmy this one into their (many) plans easier. But facts are facts I believe in this case. A tragic case at that.

[ScreamingViking]

It's been 4 months since this property changed hands. That's not a long time.

I doubt they're just going to dust off the previous plans and get started. The new owners will need to do what's in their own best interests, which may not align with those of Hue.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by Markus83

Bloody get on with it, if that is what has been holding this up this whole time and two thirds of it are already gone, well take few snaps of it and let the rest come down. Common Sense Department seems to be on the lag once again.
Hopefully not offending anyone, apologies for if I do. I am just tired of walking by this almost everyday and seeing it a heaping pile of mess. It really is a shame they can't jimmy this one into their (many) plans easier. But facts are facts I believe in this case. A tragic case at that.

That's not how things work here anymore - the citizens won't allow any more heritage buildings to come down. Not without a fight anyways.

[Markus83]

Yeah this is true...nothing is just simple. Perhaps just tidying up the site might be a better option, as not to be an eyesore so to speak.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by Markus83

Yeah this is true...nothing is just simple. Perhaps just tidying up the site might be a better option, as not to be an eyesore so to speak.

Or just prevent things from rotting further..

[Wigs]

With that crazy-by-Hamilton-standards $24M purchase price, I highly doubt they're going to waste time. The new renderings are possibly in the early stages of being drawn as we speak. I wonder who the architecture firm will be.

[mikevbar1]

This could become a signature project given the value of the site. I expect something good given the serious capital and potential.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by mikevbar1

This could become a signature project given the value of the site. I expect something good given the serious capital and potential.

It definitely seems like one would not throw down this stack of cash just to build, say, a modern commieblock.
I hope it is a unique design that stands out.