AUSTIN | Waterline | 1,034 Feet | 73 Floors | T/O - Page 28

GoldenBoot · #**541** Posted **Sep 16, 2015, 12:35 AM**

Bottom line...this project is not happening in the form currently presented!

There is no financing in place, no hotel management contract signed, and extremely questionable development experience with regard to the team engaged in this project.

I'd love for this to get cut down to two towers and one of those be in excess of 65 stories. However, that will not happen with this group as it did not happen with the several other groups which tried to develop projects on this site.

Sutton is too small and too inexperienced for something of this scope!

GoldenBoot · #**542** Posted **Sep 16, 2015, 12:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by austlar1

McCourt had to bring in Hines to shore up his Hudson Yards project. I think McCourt's deep pocketed Guggenheim partners only got in bed with him because he retained rights to develop the Chavez Ravine area around Dodger Stadium in LA. Guggenheim probably just wants to protect their LA Dodgers investment and is not terribly interested in bankrolling McCourt. McCourt emerged from owning the Dodgers with a couple of billion bucks, but that does not go far when you are trying to swing a $3 Billion plus construction project in a place like NYC. McCourt may end up getting eaten alive since the Hudson Yard/360 10th Ave project is really his first significant development deal. I hope he knows how to swim with the sharks.

lzppjb · #**543** Posted **Sep 16, 2015, 1:20 AM**

I wish this lot could get something similar to those two Rainey towers that were supposed to go on the Millennium lot.

The ATX · #**544** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 8:11 AM**

A rare update and it's mostly good:

https://www.bisnow.com/austin-san-an...-preview-51105

drummer · #**545** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 9:42 AM**

That is good. So they say Phase 1 should be done in early 2019. Hard to believe that 2019 is only a couple of years away. I feel old.

AustinGoesVertical · #**546** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 4:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The ATX

A rare update and it's mostly good:

https://www.bisnow.com/austin-san-an...-preview-51105

When I first read 2019 delivery for phase I, I was assuming that we wouldn't see much activity until early 2017, but it seems like this one will be in full swing by the summer, with demo and site prep taking place over the Winter. The Greenwater development's first three buildings (Northshore, Google Tower, and Austin Proper) will go from site prep to delivery spanning a similar three year timeline (early 2014-early 2017). I'm assuming that Waller Park Place will follow a similar process, in which one tower is ahead of the others, while the other sites are used for staging, until it's feasible to have simultaneous work on all three. Am I wrong to project that this one will HAVE to be fully underway by this summer in order to meet that 2019 opening.

Also, it sounds like that other surface parking lot Sutton owns will be Phase II, and feature mostly office like we expected. Pike says the hotel operator is lined up, so hopefully this quells a lot of people's concerns on the forum that this one would never come to fruition.

Jdawgboy · #**547** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 6:45 PM**

Well I'm glad something was mentioned about it. I'd still feel better about the project if they released updated renderings and such. It sometimes seems that this particular publisher and site is more of a hype driver and is obviously very close nit with these people since they post all sorts of buddy buddy hanging out kinda pics. They even casually throw into the articles that so and so is friends with Mr. Whosit and what not. I guess they could be trying to show that they are human beings like everyone else but I'm not sure it's really needed.

Still, we now have a time line and if we don't see demo start in January then we'll know this was nothing more than a publicity stunt.

austlar1 · #**548** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 8:38 PM**

They have been talking about site prep and demolition now for over a year. This is just more talk as far as I can tell. Give me some real specifics like financing information, contracts signed with builders, name of proposed hotel operator, etc. I would just deduct the office space square footage numbers from the Waller project from that 1.6 million square feet of office space in the pipeline that is discussed in this article. The Waller square footage is just talk at this point. I have gone from being a true believer for this project and turned into a firm doubter. Sutton does not have what it takes to deliver this project, and McCourt is not really interested in going forward at the present time. Prove me wrong. I would love to be wrong about this.

Jdawgboy · #**549** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 10:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by austlar1

They have been talking about site prep and demolition now for over a year. This is just more talk as far as I can tell. Give me some real specifics like financing information, contracts signed with builders, name of proposed hotel operator, etc. I would just deduct the office space square footage numbers from the Waller project from that 1.6 million square feet of office space in the pipeline that is discussed in this article. The Waller square footage is just talk at this point. I have gone from being a true believer for this project and turned into a firm doubter. Sutton does not have what it takes to deliver this project, and McCourt is not really interested in going forward at the present time. Prove me wrong. I would love to be wrong about this.

I am inclined to agree with you. As much as I'm all for highrise announcements, over the years and gained wisdom as I've gracefully aged,

I'm to the point that unless we have solid evidence that all is well and that these proposals are moving forward in a timely manner with consistent updates, I'm not holding my breath.

drummer · #**550** Posted **Oct 17, 2015, 7:20 AM**

^ Yeah, it's usually dirt moving for me, but Zaza is ruining that practice as well, haha.

The ATX · #**551** Posted **Oct 17, 2015, 7:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer

^ Yeah, it's usually dirt moving for me, but Zaza is ruining that practice as well, haha.

Right. ZaZa has been breaking ground for a year.

ILUVSAT · #**552** Posted **Oct 17, 2015, 9:27 PM**

At least full demolition has been complete at the ZaZa site. Nothing is going on at the Waller Park Place site.

If he has a hotel operator on board, why not just announce it...drive some interest and enthusiasm behind this project. Oh, maybe that is because the hotel does not want to be publicly tied to this project until financing has been secured?!? Hummmm...if that is the case...a tenant (or hotel operator) by contingency. That doesn't usually turn out well.

I agree with a lot of you. I think Mac Pike is in over his head on this project. Even the renderings look fake and very cheap.

AusTxDevelopment · #**553** Posted **Oct 17, 2015, 10:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer

^ Yeah, it's usually dirt moving for me, but Zaza is ruining that practice as well, haha.

Rumor was ZaZa lost their financing for the Austin site. Apparently they've recently found a new backer, or are very close to it.

The ATX · #**554** Posted **Oct 18, 2015, 12:03 AM**

The writing in the Bisnow article is a little sloppy. But after reading it again, it seems that the hotel portion (along with a second office tower) is part of Phase II which is the fourth building that is planned for the vacant lot next to the IHOP.

ILUVSAT · #**555** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 5:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The ATX

The writing in the Bisnow article is a little sloppy. But after reading it again, it seems that the hotel portion (along with a second office tower) is part of Phase II which is the fourth building that is planned for the vacant lot next to the IHOP.

It says the "site development for the first phase is ready." I assume this means the site plan has been approved - the site plan which is available on the COA's website. If this is the case, it includes the residential, most of the retail, 400,000 SF of office in three towers with a common base/podium structure.

Phase two will be a 600,000 SF office building...likely with ground floor retail.

*If they plan on breaking ground in 1Q2016, don't you think they would have someone lined up and marketing the for sale condo portion of this development. Unless they completely drop that portion of the project (or revert the for-sale units to rental), I would expect a financial backer would want to see a substantial amount of presales. Kind of hard to do that without marketing them.

Look at 70 Rainey, Austin Proper, The Independent, etc...they all will be breaking ground (supposedly) in the coming three-to-four months. And all of these developments have already started taking reservations.

AustinGoesVertical · #**556** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 6:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

*If they plan on breaking ground in 1Q2016, don't you think they would have someone lined up and marketing the for sale condo portion of this development. Unless they completely drop that portion of the project (or revert the for-sale units to rental), I would expect a financial backer would want to see a substantial amount of presales. Kind of hard to do that without marketing them.

Look at 70 Rainey, Austin Proper, The Independent, etc...they all will be breaking ground (supposedly) in the coming three-to-four months. And all of these developments have already started taking reservations.

You would think so, except delivery still wouldn't be until 2019 because of the scope of the project, so maybe they would really start marketing it two years out. I agree that a financial backer would like to see the presales, and correct if I'm wrong, but I think 5th and West broke ground before they really had their marketing all lined up.

GoldenBoot · #**557** Posted **Oct 20, 2015, 7:06 PM**

As of December 2014, 5th and West had reservations for about 25% of their units (before the official ground breaking).

The ATX · #**558** Posted **Nov 12, 2015, 3:35 PM**

Fresh demo permit requests were filed today for four of the buildings on the site. Let's get this done already. (I didn't post the links to the permits because we want action, not permits at this point.)

Tech House · #**559** Posted **Nov 14, 2015, 5:27 AM**

I wonder if it would look weird to have a protest at the Waller property with people holding signs such as "Less Talk, More Action!" and chanting slogans like,
We're tired of asking for permission
We're going ahead with demolition!
and
Here's the reason why we're snoring,
Bureaucrats are fucking boring!

The ATX · #**560** Posted **Nov 14, 2015, 5:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tech House

I wonder if it would look weird to have a protest at the Waller property with people holding signs such as "Less Talk, More Action!" and chanting slogans like,
We're tired of asking for permission
We're going ahead with demolition!

I know. It seems they have filed for demo permits for the same properties several times over the past three years.

I wasn't planning on posting anything yet because my views of the site are fleeting as I do the rush hour Cesar Chavez to I-35 connection. BUT I thought I saw some barricades preventing vehicles from parking at one of the demo sites this week. I hope to verify that this weekend.