[Moncton] Centre Avenir Centre | 26.65m |~6 Fl | Completed

[riverviewer]

Am I reading this right? No one knows what it will cost until they commit to pay the unknown amount???

"The bigger unknown is that no one can be sure of what an events centre will cost Moncton until funding partnerships get finalized and one of the two proposals submitted is chosen.

Neither of the proposals has been seen by council because of strict rules in the procurement process until Moncton can commit to the project"

See http://22864.vws.magma.ca/index.php?&article_id=14577

Who agreed to a blank cheque?

[pierremoncton]

Yeah, that's ridiculous. Completely unfair to councillors and especially taxpayers. The entire project is being poorly managed, and councillors Bourgeois and Hicks are right to be raising concerns. There's no transparency whatsoever, and the city manager and his staff have too much power. The Bay would've kept providing taxes, and an empty mall would've looked better than a 10-year crater on Main Street.

[MonctonRad]

It won't be a crater for long. I predict hectares of non bootable surface parking for the downtown core.

Of course, although there will be lots of parking, there won't be much for people to actually do in the downtown area once they drive there.........

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It won't be a crater for long. I predict hectares of non bootable surface parking for the downtown core.

Of course, although there will be lots of parking, there won't be much for people to actually do in the downtown area once they drive there.........

They could stay the night at the Crowne Plaza! But seriously Moncton should do like what Quebec City is doing and just build the thing. The amount of increases tax revenue it will create will be enough to help cover it. Perhaps even make a 5 year 1% increase in property taxes across the board or something too. They could potentially sell bonds for it too? Just some ideas.

[MonctonRad]

from CBC

Moncton businesses upset over downtown centre's funding delay
Downtown Moncton Inc. says the provincial government's review into funding the $107M centre is taking too long
By Marc Genuist, CBC News Posted: Apr 22, 2015 8:15 AM AT
Last Updated: Apr 22, 2015 8:15 AM AT

Business people in Moncton are growing frustrated with the provincial government's lack of financial support for the proposed $107-million downtown sports and entertainment centre.

Ever since they were elected in September, the Liberals have refused to say whether they will help pay for the $107-million centre.

Lawrence Forbes said he thought he would finish his term as president of Downtown Moncton Inc. by presiding over a ribbon cutting ceremony to launch construction of the proposed entertainment centre.

Instead, the outgoing president of the downtown business group told the organization's annual meeting that he sees a giant field of rubble every time he walks by the proposed site.

"We're not seeing any construction, no shovels in the ground, not even a memorandum of understanding signed," he said.

The proposed facility is supposed to be constructed on the old Highfield Square mall site.

Forbes, city council and many other Moncton businesses blame the provincial Liberals for the delay.

"The premier, the finance minister have said that Moncton is the economic driver of the province of New Brunswick. Well, it's only going to be driven if there's investment that's put in to it and not left flat," he says.

Since shortly after the election, the provincial government has continually said it's reviewing the project to see if it makes economic sense

Last week, Finance Minister Roger Melanson repeated that comment as he committed the provincial government to help pay for a $13-million upgrade to Acadie Avenue in Dieppe.

He gave no date as to when the now eight-month-long review process will be over.

Forbes said the federal government has come up with its $24-million share and he can't figure out why the provincial government is stalling.

"Somebody has to put pressure on the premier and the minister of finance and these people to say, 'You tell us what the hold up is what is it that we can do.' Is it political? If it's political, tell us," he says.

He says the $24-million investment will pay off.

He says the provincial government has hired economist David Campbell to help it boost the provincial economy.

Forbes points out that Campbell wrote a report about the benefits of the downtown centre as an economic stimulus for the region.

Forbes says the downtown centre can do for Moncton what the airport has done for Dieppe.

"If they hadn't invested in the airport, we wouldn't have the international airport with the amount of cargo that's coming in there. Did they go into debt? Sure they did, but look at the return today," he said.

"Look at everything that's built up around the airport today, because of what they've done we've got hotels, we've got gas stations we have restaurant. If that airport had stayed at a small municipal airport, like you can see going around this province, you would have seen no development around it.

Forbes says business people are meeting later this week to figure out how to put new pressure on the provincial government for the money.

personal note - I hope nobody read the comments section from this CBC article, the "haters" were out in full force.

The downtown business association made a very good effort in putting their agenda forward in this article. I wish them well. All I know is that I am in downtown Toronto all this week and that the NBA playoffs are on and the Blue Jays are playing a home series. It is a breath of fresh air to see the tens of thousands of sporting fans arriving in the core to attend these games every night. This is what Moncton will be missing if the events centre is not built in the downtown. The events centre would be a magnet for downtown growth and development. I just can't understand how the Premier fails to see this.

Personally, I think the problem is pure unadulterated base and crass politics. The province won't pony up the money as long as federal MP Robert Goguen might stand to gain some credit. The federal election is coming and I'm sure Dominic LeBlanc has given Brian Gallant his marching orders - don't give the Tories the opportunity to take any credit for anything until after the election. Crass politics is the reason why the events centre won't get built......

[Nashe]

I admit to being conflicted:

Does Moncton need his center? Yes. I'm intimately aquainted with the 40-year-old Coliseum and I can't deny it. It's too small, it's really shabby inside, and the infrastructure is really old and will need huge upgrades soon, and I know we're "losing" acts/events.

Does NB have the money? No. We're "broker" than ever, as a province. Does that mean it shouldn't kick in? That's the hard part, I think...

Should Irving pony up a bit more? I think so, since they would be the "flagship" user of the new facility. Not to the tune of 10's of millions like the feds, province and city, but definitely should be a partner.

[habskilla]

Pave it all over.

Pave Highfield Square over and make it parking lot.
Tear down the Coliseum and pave that over. It's costing us money to keep it open.

Wait a few years...

Then, wait for the screaming to really start:
- City has to raise the mill rate year after year because of falling property values to make up for the shortfall in revenue. And when I say city, I mean every city/town in the province. Just like the global economy, we are all connected.

The same *haters* now will be the same people screaming in a few years because all of the tax increases. If you do not invest in your city, it will die. You must grow and invest to survive. A healthy Moncton helps not just Monctonians, but the whole province.

Is investing in the proposed Events Centre the answer? I don't know. All I do know is, it may only take a few years to get in a death spiral, but it'll take a lot more time and money to get out of it.

Ask Saint John who's it going over there...

So have a beer on me and enjoy(?) it unfold

[Taeolas]

And the CBC continues:

Moncton businesses plan lobbying blitz for $107M downtown centre

As usual, avoid the comments section. The usual folk are ranting and raging in there.

I did laugh (sadly) at the "Show me the numbers!" folks, when right in the article we have:

Nicolas Parisi, the general manager of the Crowne Plaza, which is owned by a Vancouver developer, the Aquilini Group, outlined the company's plans for their property just across the street from the proposed site.

The billionaires bought the hotel eight years ago and added to that investment by buying the whole city block around the hotel three years ago.

Parisi says the Aquilini Group wants to invest more in Moncton but it is waiting for he future downtown centre to become a reality.

"Absolutely, there's been an on going rumour, then plans, than projects, than meetings for the past seven years," Parisi said.

Parisi said he can't say yet what the Aquilini Group is planning but he says it will be a lot less if the project dies.

"We don't even want to think about that, for us it's not an option," he said.

"We need that downtown centre it's a must have for this city."

Right there, we have acknowledgement that there's a major side development that's all but ready to go, if only the province will get off its ass.

Yes, the provinces finances are tight; but you still have to spend some money to make it. Tossing in the funding for this will pay back, in construction jobs (direct and indirect) and other major projects.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Yes, the provinces finances are tight; but you still have to spend some money to make it. Tossing in the funding for this will pay back, in construction jobs (direct and indirect) and other major projects.

Indeed, Brian Gallant wants to spend a billion dollars on infrastructure in the province to stimulate the economy. I would wager that $24M spent on the events centre would give a much larger payback in terms of expanding the economy than a few more km of MacAdam in Bas Caraquet or Acadieville.

This is such a no brainer that every time I think of the current situation I worry that I'll have a stroke. Brian can't delay on this decision until after the federal election. The decision needs to be made now. This is so important an issue to Moncton, to southeast NB and indeed the province that it really does transcend politics. Brian, I don't care what Dominic is whispering in your ear, be a man and do the right thing!

In the meantime, kudos to the downtown business association for keeping this issue in the spotlight. There is no guarantee that their efforts will be rewarded, but to quote Dylan Thomas, they need to continue to rage, rage against the dying of the light, do not go quietly into that good night.

Your efforts may yet get rewarded, keep up the good work.

[Sunnybrae]

I haven't commented on this yet but here is my 2 cents for what it is worth. I do see both sides of this story. Spending tax dollars to make tax dollars just seems hard to swallow at this time considering NB's situation. What could sway the public would be a vote of confidence from the business community by investing in the project itself. Even if it was a quarter of the amount. If the McCain's or the Irving's or even the Aquilini Group themselves who stand to gain so much according to them, and other multimillionaires could put together 20 or 30 million, then the province would be in a better position to back it. There is more than enough money in this region to fund this entire project privately. The will is just not there. Why not invest? In conclusion, do I want the events centre? Yes. Do I need the events centre? No.

[mylesmalley]

I heard this predicament put very well last night. If you imagine you have a mortgage payment and your salary isn't high enough to cover it (a structural deficit) the idea of taking on more debt sounds crazy. But if you frame it in another way it isn't quite so bleak. If you could take on a 50k loan to make your house work 100k more when you sold it, you would definitely do it.

People can't seem to get past the price tag on this - even though it'll be amortized over decades. People also can't seem to see this as anything other than a big expense, rather than an investment that will pay big dividends over time. We'll take on a billion dollars in debt to twin a highway because we can see how that might give the economy a boost though...

[MonctonRad]

from Councillor Dawn Arnold's Faccebook page

So, a media outlet asked me yesterday what my wish was for Moncton on its 125th birthday. Well, of course I wished for a revitalized, dynamic, bustling, and invigorating downtown. Is this possible? I believe it is, but it is going to take a lot of political will to do the right thing for our city.
As most of you know, I support the DT Centre, because I think it is an excellent investment in our future. Will it solve all the challenges of our DT? Hardly. But, it is a vital piece in the puzzle, that along with Downing Street and the DT Revitalization Committee’s incentives will go a long way to getting the heart of our city beating again. (The heart of our city that currently brings in 14.5% of all tax revenue while only representing 1.5% of the geographic area of the city and yet currently has 42% of it covered in surface parking.)
So, how does our provincial government make a decision on this project when they are faced with the current challenges of having to close schools and increase taxes on Seniors? It’s definitely not an easy decision optically. However, I believe that it is vital for the future of our city for the following reasons:
1. It will bring an estimated $12-15 million in new spending to our city (according to David Campbell, currently the province’s Chief Economist) every year.
2. Moncton is the economic centre of our province and yet our tax base is dropping…many companies’ net tax worth is diminishing. This slipping tax base is a very big and real concern. A new centre like this will change the equation considerably.
3. There are corporations all over our city, waiting. Waiting for a shovel to go in the ground. These companies are getting tired of waiting. Think about places like 55 Queen, think about the potential of the new development west of Vaughan Harvey and Main, think about the Aquillini group that owns the Crowne Plaza…all waiting. I don’t know, but I doubt that they are all going to just hang around and watch an empty field sit there, month after month, year after year.
4. The DT Centre is a capital investment (increasing the tax base for years to come) and not an operating expense.
5. An investment like this is in line with the very platform that got the Liberal party elected in NB. Looking purely on a statistical basis, $900M over six years is an average of $150M per year. If those funds were dispersed evenly based on population, the greater Moncton area would receive $27M per year (138,634 / 755,464 = 18.3%). (Thanks Kevin Arseneault for this.) However, the $24 million that the City has asked from the Province would be paid out over time…most of it probably not until 2018.
6. The province would receive $6.8 million of their $24 million and the feds would receive $11.6 million back in the first 2 years.
Every day that goes by and there is no decision by the province, it costs all of us Moncton tax payers. We are already $12.5 million in for the land, another million in for professional services, and the argument could be made that we are much more committed than that, when you think about the cost of the last 7 years as we as a community have been obsessed by this project…and have waited. What is the cost of the lost opportunity? I don’t know.
This is about investing in our future. The province does it all the time. There is always an investment being made, whether it is $5 million to Gtech or $480,000 to GuestLogix…this is a way to create jobs, spur investment, get things going. It is also about the future of the heart of our City. For as long as I’ve lived here (18 years) our DT has been discussed. It is time to step up and do something significant. The status quo is simply not good enough. This is just not going to happen organically.
Moncton has carved out a niche as being the sports and entertainment capital of Atlantic Canada – is this something we want to continue? We won’t be able to continue this if we don’t build a DT Centre. The Coliseum is simply too old and doesn’t meet any of the modern standards. The interesting opportunities are simply passing us by.
Provincial funding of the DT Centre fits in precisely with all three of the Provincial government’s mandates: short term job creation, prosperity and infrastructure development (this is sports and entertainment infrastructure).
Because this project has gone on for so long now, it feels like it is running out of steam…we can only expect people to stay focussed on this for so long…and they are getting bored, antsy and negative. We haven’t captured people’s imagination (and this is partly due to the fact that the proponents’ proposals still haven’t been seen)…it’s hard to dream about something that you haven’t seen. It’s hard to quantify the between 317,000 and 396,000 people who will be attracted to the centre every year…people who will have to walk by restaurants and shops to get there, who will go out for a drink after a show, who may choose to rent an apartment in the neighbourhood and sell their car…because they can. An investment like this is also about changing our culture in a positive way. This is NOT a frivolous activity, but a strategic investment in our future…that will pay significant dividends.
Four months ago the province led the City to believe that they too believe that this is a solid business investment in the future of our City, so why isn’t this decision being made?
What is the vision of DT Moncton in the next two years? Five years? Ten years? Will we still be looking at that gaping hole in our DT? If this project dies now, it will be dead for a long time. It will not be resurrected anytime soon…it could easily be another ten years before it will be able to be discussed again. I think we need to think about who this building is for. Our kids. The 18-35 year olds, the future of our province, want to live where they can work and play…and it is them that will drive our future growth. We can’t settle for a culture of defeat…we need to think strategically and demand the very best for our community. We can do this. We need the courage to invest in hope and abundance rather than fear and scarcity, because the death by a thousand cuts isn’t working.
So, that is my rant. Moncton needs its mojo back and I believe that this DT Centre is integral to this. Is it without risk? Absolutely not. It is bold and audacious, but we’ve put the plans in place, we’ve done the homework and we’ve put a lot on the line. If you believe that this is a vital investment for the future of our City, step up. Write to your MLA and let them know that you support it. It doesn’t need to be anything fancy, just let them know why you think it is a good idea. And, I know that some of you don’t support the Centre. So, my question to you is this: If it doesn’t happen, what do you propose we do to revitalize and reinvigorate our economy and our DT, that will pay significant dividends for our City down the road? As always, I would love to hear from you. ‪#‎inPoli‬

[David_99]

From today's Times

Melanson stated that over the fast few months, the government has "been working on the development of a policy that will guide decisions regarding applications for projects of this nature."

"I do want to point out that we believe various aspects of the Moncton Downtown Centre have strong merit, but ali of the information must be properly considered and analyzed before moving ahead with such an investment," he said.

It wasn't specified when the policy will be ready, but the government press release stated the policy will have "a clear set of criteria to guide these types of decisions in the future as many communities have similar projects in which they are seeking provincial
support."

Once the policy is finalized, government will then apply it to the downtown events centre and make a decision on whether or not the province will provide financial support.

"We don't believe that decisions like this should be done on an eleven hour before an election campaign as was done by the previous provincial conservative government," said Melanson.

"How long have they been drafting up this policy? If says over the fast few months, and when are we actually going to see such a policy come to life or come out? This is a concern for me," he said. "There seems to be an awfully big delay, and this seems to be a delay process towards the citizens of Moncton, quite honestly. This seems basically to be a delay tactic th at the current government is playing with citizens of Moncton and the businesses within Moncton that want to see the downtown rejuvenated."

Crossman said it's odd to hear the province's stance on this project when they taik about jobs and turning the economy around. "I can only imagine how many jobs this is going to create from construction right through to operation right through to local businesses downtown, new businesses downtown, the current ones expanding," he said. "The possibilities could be endless."

Gallant said government must invest money strategically and ensure every dollar goes as far as possible. "This principle is an important one and is also one that requires us as a government to do our due diligence when making decisions. This includes the decision on whether or not to financially support the Moncton Downtown Centre," he said. "1 assure you it is not a decision that we take lightly. When we look at a project of this scale, it must be done in the framework of our priorities. lt isn't responsible to rush into a $107 million project."

[MonctonRad]

This is all codespeak........

When they say they are allowing time to formulate a new policy regarding infrastructure requests like this, what they are really saying is "there is no way in hell that we are going to announce support for the events centre until after the federal election so that we can avoid giving the federal Tories credit for anything regarding this file".

My prediction is that Stephen Harper may get re-elected (with a minority), but that Robert Goguen here in Moncton may go down to defeat. With an opposition Liberal as our local MP, we will have lost any influence that we might have had for federal funding of this project. This will place us back at stage one of the process to get the events centre underway.

In my opinion, the events centre is deader than a rotting whale carcass on one of the local beaches.

It's so sad when politics gets in the way of valuable projects like this...........

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

This is all codespeak........

When they say they are allowing time to formulate a new policy regarding infrastructure requests like this, what they are really saying is "there is no way in hell that we are going to announce support for the events centre until after the federal election so that we can avoid giving the federal Tories credit for anything regarding this file".

My prediction is that Stephen Harper may get re-elected (with a minority), but that Robert Goguen here in Moncton may go down to defeat. With an opposition Liberal as our local MP, we will have lost any influence that we might have had for federal funding of this project. This will place us back at stage one of the process to get the events centre underway.

In my opinion, the events centre is deader than a rotting whale carcass on one of the local beaches.

It's so sad when politics gets in the way of valuable projects like this...........

At this point, why is it not possible to make the 2 proposals from EllisDon and Bird construction public? This would certainly further galvanize support among the electorate and possibly apply some political pressure from the city.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by NBNYer

At this point, why is it not possible to make the 2 proposals from EllisDon and Bird construction public? This would certainly further galvanize support among the electorate and possibly apply some political pressure from the city.

I agree with you, but at the present time the rules surrounding tendering processes are so labyrinthine that I am sure that this is legally impossible.

Speaking from personal experience regarding tendering of large pieces of medical equipment, the process is much more bureaucratic and suffocating than it was 20 years ago. It's very frustrating really.

[Mattyyy]

Well, I just wrote my local MLA - Who else!?

[MonctonRad]

New Brunswick Naval Center to get $4M for infrastructure from province
Three-building complex will receive the investment through the provincial strategic infrastructure initiative
CBC News Posted: Apr 27, 2015 2:52 PM AT|
Last Updated: Apr 27, 2015 2:52 PM AT
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunsw...r-infrastructure-from-province-1.3050478

The New Brunswick Naval Center in Bas-Caraquet is getting $4 million in funding from the provincial government for infrastructure improvements.

Premier Brian Gallant announced Monday the three-building complex dedicated to shipbuilding repair and manufacturing will receive the investment through the provincial strategic infrastructure initiative.

No specific projects were outlined, but in a release, the province says the money will be used to make improvements to existing facilities at the centre and to build new facilities.

The New Brunswick Naval Center currently consists of two boatyards and an office building.

Its objective is to promote the economic development of the region by reactivating the naval industry on the Acadian Peninsula, according to its website.

The centre, located in the Baie des Chaleurs, at the mouth of the Gulf of St. Lawrence and near the Atlantic Ocean, is ideal to access the American market, to take part in the development of the Great North and to participate in the federal shipbuilding strategy, it states.

Personal note - So, a rinky-dink shipyard in Bas Caraquet with no orders gets $4M under the radar and before the new "policy" has been developed regarding dispersement of the infrastructure funds, while at the same time the events centre gets ignored. This stinks to high heaven!

The investment in Bas Caraquet will go straight down the toilet. The events centre on the other hand would have generated millions of dollars in new investment for the city and the province. What the frig!!!!

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Personal note - So, a rinky-dink shipyard in Bas Caraquet with no orders gets $4M under the radar and before the new "policy" has been developed regarding dispersement of the infrastructure funds, while at the same time the events centre gets ignored. This stinks to high heaven!

The investment in Bas Caraquet will go straight down the toilet. The events centre on the other hand would have generated millions of dollars in new investment for the city and the province. What the frig!!!!

I was just as surprised when I saw this on the news yesterday. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt with this new policy but now it just seems to be a stall tactic.

Also on CBC this morning, the province is now asking the city to pay for the extension of Codiac Transpo service to the new Moncton High! This on the heals of severely reduced provincial grants to the city because Moncton is doing "so well" economically! What great policies to help sustain growth!

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by NBNYer

I was just as surprised when I saw this on the news yesterday. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt with this new policy but now it just seems to be a stall tactic.

Also on CBC this morning, the province is now asking the city to pay for the extension of Codiac Transpo service to the new Moncton High! This on the heals of severely reduced provincial grants to the city because Moncton is doing "so well" economically! What great policies to help sustain growth!

That's what people were saying right from when the new Suburbs High was announced; the Province would build it out in the boonies and the city would be stuck paying for the costs of bringing services to it.