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  #541  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2013, 6:59 PM
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Streetcar tracks are scary, but I don't find cobblestones to be a hindrance. Granted, the average asphalt street in New Orleans is no less bumpy than cobbles.
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  #542  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2013, 8:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I don't find cobblestones to be a hindrance.
Hm, I take it you don't ride a road bike.

There's also a huge difference between squared-off Belgian blocks (as O & P St. have) and proper cobbles, like these on Princess St. in Alexandria:

Old Town bike route scout by Payton Chung, on Flickr
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Last edited by paytonc; Jan 23, 2013 at 8:36 PM.
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  #543  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 4:02 AM
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Metro proposes major upgrade to D.C. transit (Washington Post)

Metro proposes major upgrade to D.C. transit



"Katherine Frey/THE WASHINGTON POST - The Forest Glen Metro station is seen this past summer. Metro officials said in a new report that the transit agency needs to take the next steps in planning for future population and job growth in the Washington area."

By Dana Hedgpeth
Washington Post
1/23/2013

"Metro’s top managers are proposing a new rail tunnel under the center of the District and a second tunnel under the Potomac, and they estimate the transit agency will need $26 billion over the next three decades to pay for those and other improvements to an aging system that is falling behind the region’s needs.

The proposed new rail tunnels — one under 10th Street to Thomas Circle and another between Rosslyn and Georgetown and on to Thomas Circle — would be massive undertakings. The projects would require major financial commitments from local and federal governments and would take several years to plan and several more years to complete.

It is not the first time Metro has talked about such new tunnels, but in making them a central piece of the transit agency’s new strategic plan, Metro’s top managers are seeking to focus public attention on what the agency says is a long-term threat to the region’s economic growth..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...5ee_story.html



Image courtesy of the Washington Post.
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  #544  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 4:04 AM
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To finance this, DC should relax the Height Act and use some of the revenue from the increased property taxes. Additionally, WMATA needs to leverage its property and real estate and aggressively pursue mixed-use development on land it owns, including the western bus garage in Friendship Heights.

While many of these are desirable, metro-rail absolutely does not need to be extended to Potomac Mills, Bowie, or Centerville. Bus transit or commuter rail should be used to serve these communities.
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  #545  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 1:32 PM
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I understand the desire for the 10th street tunnel, but it seems like there would be bigger priorities. For example, I'd think dealing with Union Station is more important.
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  #546  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 4:43 PM
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A line between the Yellow line to Union Station via Federal Center would be nice.
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  #547  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 5:20 PM
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The WMATA Strategic Plan documents - Summary and 50 page draft - have been posted to the WMATA website here. I think it is usually more useful to read or skim the source document rather than the newspaper article highlights or selected excerpts. The Strategic plan draft is pretty vague on a lot of stuff, but I expect that is intentional so as to start the conversation at a general level while making a case for why expansion is neccesary. The plans are broken in Metro 2025 and Metro 2040 timeframes.

Some of the bigger parts I like - Rosslyn interline connector (discussed before); possible Blue Line re-route to Georgetown and M Street but it stop at Thomas Circle? Why not run the new Blue Line under Union Station, the busiest weekday station in the system?
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  #548  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2013, 5:28 PM
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A few years ago, I attended a presentation that Nat Bottigheimer, then the Director of Planning for WMATA, gave to a community group in Tenleytown. A lot of the residents in Tenley, of course are notorious NIMBYs and often cite capacity constraints on the Red Line as a reason why Ward 3 in DC absolutely can't have any more infill growth. Nat Bottigheimer dismissed this concern and noted that much of the DC core is already built out and that much of the new growth in the DC region will be in the suburbs, including Tysons and White Flint and this will generate a lot of reverse-commute trips, alleviating some of the capacity challenges in the next 1-2 decades.

Additionally, while I strongly support the planned 37-mile streetcar network planned for the District, I am interested in how these WMATA metro-rail improvements relate to that and what DC should prioritize in funding and if that makes any of the planned streetcar routes redundant.
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  #549  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist View Post
Additionally, while I strongly support the planned 37-mile streetcar network planned for the District, I am interested in how these WMATA metro-rail improvements relate to that and what DC should prioritize in funding and if that makes any of the planned streetcar routes redundant.
None, really. The K St NW and 7th St NW streetcar segments are for downtown circulation of other east-west and north-south routes. Also, the two serve entirely different markets.
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  #550  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 5:52 PM
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Exclamation

When is the Silver Line scheduled to start operations?

Also, what is it going to do to the Blue and Orange Line? Isn't that whole stretch bit clogged as it is and it has to take on a third line?


On a semi-related note, a passenger tunnel between the Farragut Square stations is long overdue. You won't have to go to Metro Center or leave the station to transfer and both stations are only one block apart.
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  #551  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 5:58 PM
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How long will it take to get from downtown DC to Dulles on the completed silver line?
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  #552  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 6:00 PM
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When is the Silver Line scheduled to start operations?

Also, what is it going to do to the Blue and Orange Line? Isn't that whole stretch bit clogged as it is and it has to take on a third line?
Phase I of the Silver Line should open later this year. The latest figure I heard is that Phase I is 87% complete now.

David Alpert, of Greater Greater Washington, discussed capacity issues created by the Silver Line in an interview yesterday with the Wall Street Journal.

Q&A: Discussing D.C. Metro’s $26 Billion Wish List

"WSJ: This plan looks out over many decades. Is the feeling that things really have to get started now for any of this to exist 20 or 30 years from now?

Alpert: Absolutely, if anything, things should have gotten started quite a long time ago. It takes a long time to plan, fund, build consensus for major transportation projects. Doing something about Metro is a definite need. We’ve already seen with the Rush Plus changes which have increased crowding on the Blue Line, and when the Silver Line comes online, the crowding for a lot of Virginians will get even worse.

Metro absolutely needs to increase its capacity just to keep from completely bursting at the seams, if it’s not already. It absolutely needs to go to more eight-car trains. The original designers of Metro had anticipated we would be at all eight-car trains well before today, but the region and the federal government were never really willing to invest in that. We’re a little bit behind that eight-ball on things like eight-car trains as well as starting to line up consensus and funding for some of the more expensive core-capacity changes like separate tunnels through the core.

WSJ: This plan seems to relieve existing bottlenecks by building connectors between nearby busy stations, but building rail lines fairly parallel to existing lines as well as adding stations perhaps in Georgetown, the West End, Logan Circle. But it doesn’t expand service to broader central D.C. Is that where things like streetcars come into play? It’s a cost issue essentially, right?

Alpert: Building new heavy rail, new Metro lines is very expensive. In the ’60s and ’70s, when we were building the Metro system, there was much more willingness in our nation to invest in big ambitious transportation projects. Today, that’s really very difficult. And so Metro unfortunately is forced mainly to focus on making its system more efficient and leave a lot of the expansion of transit to new areas, to the more cost effective modes like the streetcar.

On the other hand, it is very worthwhile for Metro to deal with its bottlenecks. We are expanding Metro to a new area right now, with the Silver Line. It’s hitting one the probably most important outward expansion in the region, because its going to reach Tysons Corner, which is the largest edge city in the nation and one of the largest office markets in the nation and an incredibly important economic center. But you could really argue that something about core capacity ideally would have been part of the original Silver Line proposal. The Silver Line will add a lot of riders at one end of the system without adding room for them in the middle, and so it will get more congested going through Rosslyn where the lines come together and Virginians will be finding very crowded trains and not enough trains. If we grow the core, then it would certainly be feasible to extending some lines to other areas..."

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/0...ion-wish-list/
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  #553  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 6:04 PM
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Also, how is streetcar a good idea and how is it more effective than a bus? Won't it be stuck in traffic just like a bus?
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  #554  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 8:28 PM
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A streetcar can have exclusive lanes, signal priority, prepaid boarding, etc. Light rail in all but name.

I think would be a better use of money to through-route MARC and VRE trains. A 10th St Tunnel for the Yellow Line is ridiculous. VRE should be handling commuters who live outside the beltway in southern Fairfax and Prince William counties.
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  #555  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 8:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
A 10th St Tunnel for the Yellow Line is ridiculous.
The 7th St Yellow/Green tunnel is already at 25 TPH and will reach the max of 26 TPH once Silver opens -- the Yellow Line has picked up a lot of what was Blue Line service to Franconia. Adding any new service will require a new tunnel, and ridership is growing very quickly through the eastern end of downtown and along the Green Line corridor in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
How long will it take to get from downtown DC to Dulles on the completed silver line?
About 50 minutes, comparable to the current 5A buses; the stations in western Fairfax county will be quite far apart.

Silver Line trains should start running by the end of this year and will replace many Orange Line trains in the existing Orange-Blue crosstown tunnel. The service will split 11 TPH Orange, 10 TPH Silver, and 5 TPH Blue.


Also, there are lots of arguments about streetcars vs. buses online that I don't wish to rehash.
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Last edited by paytonc; Jan 25, 2013 at 9:45 PM.
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  #556  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 10:08 PM
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Also, how is streetcar a good idea and how is it more effective than a bus? Won't it be stuck in traffic just like a bus?
Depends on how much, if any, of the streetcar route runs in a dedicated ROW, degree of grade separation. The initial component of the DC street car system on H Street is going to be street running, but has stops (already built) with level boarding. The plans for the rest of system includes segments with dedicated ROWs, but there is a lot of back and forth on where and how much (to the extent that I have followed the details). Depends on how wide the street is and whether the local politics will allow the transportation department to take away 2 lanes from from car traffic.

The Crystal City/Potomac Yards Transitway in development across the river in VA is going to be mostly in a dedicated ROW with some mixed traffic. See the planning map. What may the project up is that Arlington County wants run streetcars while Alexandria is tilting towards BRT with the idea they may upgrade to streetcars in the future.
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  #557  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2013, 10:35 PM
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Phase I of the Silver Line should open later this year. The latest figure I heard is that Phase I is 87% complete now.
The construction part of the Silver Line Phase 1 is reportedly on schedule to be completed by this summer. The grey area is with the delays in the delivery of the initial batch of Series 7000 cars is whether WMATA will be willing to start service by this December (which is the projected start date) or will postpone the start date so they only have to run the new line with the current rolling stock for a few months.

The nominal completion date for Phase 2 to Dulles and Ashburn is 2018. The construction contracts are supposed to be awarded by April (or is it May?). Phase 2 should not involve that much risk, utility relocation, or property acquisition as the route is either in the median strip of the Dulles Access Road and Greenway or running through Dulles Airport on land owned by MWAA who is building the line. So I hope that the winning bidder will build it more quickly than in 5 years. Or perhaps they will build and open Phase 2 in two subphases: 2A to Dulles with the rail yard at the airport completed, then 2B to Ashburn opening later.

Of the proposed improvements in the WMATA strategic plan, I think that an argument can be made that they should have started on the construction of the pedestrian tunnel at the Farragut Sq stations and probably the Metro Center-Gallery Place tunnel when construction started on Phase 1 of the Silver Line. The pedestrian tunnels should have been completed prior to the Silver Line starting operation to relieve the additional traffic the new line will bring. There will be new commuters taking the Red Line on the Shady Grove - Dupont Circle end to Tysons who will either take the Virtual tunnel or go through Metro Center. I guess with the big 6 year Metro Forward maintenance project, it was easy to let the plans for the tunnels to go on deep freeze.
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  #558  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2013, 12:33 AM
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I like the idea mentioned in the post on GreaterGreaterWashington where perhaps MARC could go to L'Enfant?

It does seem like DC could use a "Crossrail" scheme though. Would enough people ride MARC from Maryland to Alexandria and from Virginia to Silver Spring?
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  #559  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2013, 4:11 AM
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GGW did an earlier series on through-running VRE & MARC:
http://greatergreaterwashington.org/...nd-vre-part-1/
http://greatergreaterwashington.org/...nd-vre-part-2/

The big hang-up appears to be about platform heights. Otherwise, it's really maddening that we, along with Paris and Philadelphia and few other major cities, have "crossrail" infrastructure in place but just plain don't use it!

Already, Amtrak through-runs many Northeast trains to Virginia and beyond via a tunnel going just east of the Capitol and Long Bridge. Other bottlenecks that the article mention are now proposed to go away; Long Bridge will be replaced in the long run, Maryland Avenue at L'Enfant Plaza will also get rebuilt, and the new Union Station will include more through-run tracks.

The other half of the legacy-infrastructure problem, though, is that many of the rail spurs that gave rise to suburban Washington's most important nodes were abandoned long ago (Bethesda, UMd, Vienna/Tysons), and thus current commuter rail alignments don't suit travel to/from those locations. Commuter rail only works for a few of today's nodes, like Gaithersburg, Rockville, Silver Spring, Alexandria, and Manassas.
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  #560  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2013, 4:30 AM
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Also, how is streetcar a good idea and how is it more effective than a bus? Won't it be stuck in traffic just like a bus?
Ways streetcars are better than buses:

Streetcars have greater capacity than buses. This is the simplest difference. Streetcars are bigger, longer, and can be coupled into trains. For corridors with transit ridership too high for buses but not high enough for Metro, streetcars can be a good solution.

Streetcars can be more affordable than buses. While it’s true that streetcars require a much larger initial capital investment than buses, that capital cost can be offset by significant operational savings year-to year, depending on the circumstances. In the long term, streetcars are more affordable as long as they are used on high ridership routes. Streetcars' higher capacity means that if there are lots of riders on your route, you can move them with fewer vehicles. Fewer vehicles means more efficient use of fuel and fewer (unionized, pensioned) drivers to pay. Also, streetcar vehicles themselves are much more sturdy than buses, and last many decades longer. While buses must generally be retired and replacements purchased about every 10 years, streetcars typically last 40 years or more. For example, Philadelphia’s SEPTA transit system is still using streetcar vehicles built in 1947 (although they have been overhauled once since then).

Streetcars are much more comfortable to ride than buses. One of the big reasons why many Americans don’t like buses is that they are so rumbly. They jerk you up, down, side to side. They’re simply not comfortable. Streetcars glide along a rail much more smoothly, offering a vastly more comfortable ride. Less motion sickness, easier to hang on. This issue isn’t often discussed in newspaper articles, and rail opponents like to pretend it's not a big deal, but it is a really big deal. Passengers gravitate towards the most comfortable ride.

Streetcar routes are easier to understand. In any big city, buses are confusing. There are so many criss-crossing and competing routes that it can be intimidating and difficult to understand. New users are turned off because they don’t want to accidentally get on the wrong bus and end up miles from their real destination. Streetcars, on the other hand, are easier to understand because the cost of constructing tracks inherently limits the size of the system. Instead of an incomprehensible jumble, you get a clean and easy to understand system map. Even if streetcar line names may be a little more complicated than “Red Line”, they’ll be a whole heckuva lot easier to figure out than “P18″.

Streetcars attract more riders than buses. Partially because of the above points, streetcars are always used by more people than buses when all other things are equal. They attract more passengers, which after all is the whole point of public transit.

Streetcars are economic development magnets. The presence of rail transit nearby is one of the best incentives for economic development in the world. Metro stations radically remade large swaths of the DC area, and streetcars can do the same (have done the same, in places like Portland and Toronto). In fact, the additional taxes generated by rail-oriented development is often used to repay the initial capital investment of rail lines.

Streetcars use electricity rather than gas. Although it depends how the electricity is generated, this potentially makes streetcars much more environmentally friendly than buses. And while it’s true that electric buses exist, they are almost never used in the US, and require the same overhead wires as streetcars.

Streetcars are much quieter than buses. Becuase they run on electricity, streetcars are very quiet vehicles. They are much less disruptive to neighborhood life than buses.

Streetcars are iconic. Trains are graphic symbols for the city in a way that buses simply are not. Every tourist knows about the DC Metro, the New York subway, and the San Francisco cable cars. Their trains are an indispensable part of those city’s brands, and streetcars will be too as soon as they’re running. With the exception of London and its double deckers, nobody ever sent a postcard featuring a picture of a bus.
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