HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Downtown & City of Ottawa


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #541  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2016, 9:53 PM
McC's Avatar
McC McC is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,057
jeepers, not every thread is about N-S LRT.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #542  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2016, 10:44 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,231
I was going to say that the central library should be connected directly to an LRT station to promote it as a destination and for convenience sake, and that 290 meters is too far from Pimisi Station, but the reference library in Toronto is probably that far from Bloor Station and it seems to work. Really would've loved to see the library connected to a station though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #543  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2016, 10:55 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,231
Calgary, a city the size of Ottawa, has a 240,000 sq. ft. central library and Ottawa and Library/Archives Canada combined will get a 216,000 sq. ft. library? Seems odd.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #544  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2016, 11:09 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by McC View Post
jeepers, not every thread is about N-S LRT.
Sorry, but that map had something that nobody has commented on before.

On the Library itself, this is the same location proposed before. It is on the fringe of downtown. Since not everybody can use the Confederation Line to get there, how accessible will it really be? I guess we will find out.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #545  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 12:05 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Sorry, but that map had something that nobody has commented on before.

On the Library itself, this is the same location proposed before. It is on the fringe of downtown. Since not everybody can use the Confederation Line to get there, how accessible will it really be? I guess we will find out.
That site is not terribly well-connected, nor well-connectable, to the LRT line.

No one in this city has any idea how Transit-Oriented Development is supposed to work.
__________________
___
Enjoy my taxes, Orleans (and Kanata?).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #546  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 3:00 AM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 12,687
Ottawa's new central library site could be great if we don't cheap out

David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: December 15, 2016 | Last Updated: December 15, 2016 6:11 PM ES


To make Ottawa’s plans for a new central library work, we’ll be counting on LeBreton Flats really coming alive. And on redevelopment in the northwest corner of Centretown. And on the library to encourage both. While being an urban bridge between the two neighbourhoods, over physically difficult terrain.

It’s asking a lot.

In a presentation Thursday afternoon, library staffers said 557 Wellington St., land just northwest of Albert Street and Bronson Avenue now used as a staging ground for excavating the light-rail tunnel, is the best place for a $168-million new temple of culture they’ll share with Library and Archives Canada.



As it happens, it’s the only one of 12 sites they studied that the city already owns. The library planners looked at 11 others in a rough east-west line from Bayview to the ByWard Market (though only seven were in the running for the joint project with Library and Archives). Over the past several months they inquired whether any of their owners wanted to do a development deal and none of them did.

But, say the planners, 557 Wellington is glorious in its own right. Part of the appeal is its striking location, the library’s planners said in revealing a 17-category scoring chart for each property. They rhapsodized about the views.

“Views from the site… are going to be very significant,” said consulting designer David Leinster, a Toronto expert who’s chair of Ottawa’s urban-design review panel for private proposals. “There’re going to be amazing views of the national-capital lands to the north.”

You’ll be able to see things from the library, and you’ll be able to see the library from those same things. The site is unlikely ever to have tall buildings looming over it, which means patrons can count on a lot of natural light — unlike the bunker that serves as a main-branch now. Which is good as far as it goes. But by definition a good view is not blocked by, you know, other stuff.

In fact, this isolation counted in the site’s favour. One quality the planners looked for was whether a given property “would serve as a catalyst and economic driver for Central Area development.” Four of the 12 properties got 100-per-cent scores on that count, including 557 Wellington.

Another is whether “development of the new library facility (there) contributes to the establishment of a new civic focal point and civic identity” and yet another is whether it does the same for federal purposes — in other words, having nothing else of note around it is a positive. Only 557 Wellington got 100 per cent on that one.

The land is bounded by the escarpment at the north end of Bronson on its eastern edge and the old aqueduct along the northern edge. These are nice to look at. But then if you look south, there’s heavily trafficked Albert Street, some empty greenspace, and then a blank wall that forms the edge of Slater Street as it climbs the escarpment. Albert and Slater intersect with Bronson in a mess of pedestrian-hostile spaghetti lanes.

So the property’s hemmed in by a bluff, a moat, an interchange and a cleared field between two arterial roads. It’ll be highly defensible in the zombie apocalypse. But we aren’t building a fort.

Coun. Catherine McKenney, who’s also a library trustee, criticized the site as inaccessible. Being able to reach it is way more important than whether the view is nice from an upstairs window, she said. The property is close to transit, yes, but did anyone invite someone with a walker or a wheelchair to navigate that Albert Street hill? Nobody had, library manager Elaine Condos said.

The central libraries in Vancouver and in Halifax, the models for great modern Canadian libraries, are both on downtown city blocks surrounded by other buildings. Vancouver’s is on Robson Street and Halifax’s is on Spring Garden Road, streets there’s a good chance you’ve heard of even if you’ve never been to either city. Ottawa’s site is on Wellington Street but it’s the ghost part, the stretch that confuses visitors if they happen to be trying to find their way from downtown to Westboro.

The planners said they counted the number of households inside several circles surrounding the current main library and the new site — within 200 metres, 400 metres and so on — and found them pretty similar both now and in future projections. This is an iffy metric: the main library now is in a commercial district, readily reachable by a lot of downtown workers on lunch breaks or after work. The new site is not. Counting households doesn’t measure that.

McKenney and others argue the fix has been in for the city-owned site from the beginning. Whether that’s true or not, the location’s flaws don’t have to be fatal. In fact, it’s by overcoming such challenges that fine architecture and urban design come about. Greatness isn’t achieved by solving easy problems.

But make no mistake: if we build a central library at 557 Wellington, we’ll need everything about it to be brilliant.

dreevely@postmedia.com
twitter.com/davidreevely

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...dont-cheap-out
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #547  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 3:54 AM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
[B][SIZE="4"]The property is close to transit, yes, but did anyone invite someone with a walker or a wheelchair to navigate that Albert Street hill? Nobody had, library manager Elaine Condos said.
Look at Google maps: there is no hill between this west edge of this site (Albert/Brickhill) at Booth St (where Pimisi station will be).

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.41442...2!8i6656?hl=en
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #548  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 3:56 AM
1overcosc's Avatar
1overcosc 1overcosc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 11,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Notice the link between the Trillium Line and the Confederation Line on the map. I don't remember ever seeing that alignment before. This kind of connection leaves Bayview station intact as presently being constructed.

Previous connections had Bayview station move somewhat east where the lines linked together. Of course, that choice was discarded.

What is the status of the alternative shown on the map? Also discarded?
I found that interesting too. I've never seen a connection drawn that way before (and I'm quite a geek for transit plans!) in any city document. Perhaps when they repositioned Bayview in 2011 that's the alternate alignment they chose for an interlining scenario?

I'm not sure how official that is, though. The Sens Lebreton proposal puts buildings on that piece of land needed for that connection. I feel like they wouldn't have done that if the city had indicated it needed that land.

Last edited by 1overcosc; Dec 16, 2016 at 4:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #549  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 4:04 AM
1overcosc's Avatar
1overcosc 1overcosc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 11,614
I think that location works well. The point about it being basically the only location in the core (both traditional and extended) that has a long term guarantee of abundant natural light is a big factor, considering what the new library is intended to be.

It's very close to Pimisi station (three minute walk for a fit person; five minutes for a senior with a walker) and not that far from Lyon either. More importantly, it could help bridge the gap between Centretown and Lebreton. It's long been noted on here that the war memorial blocks off Rideau Street and the Market from the downtown proper by creating a big dead zone in between the two. A similar problem could easily happen with Centretown & Lebreton, given that there's the escarpment and the Garden of the Provinces creating a similar effect. A significant node of activity, like a public library, could serve to bridge the gap. It's also a nice boost for the residents of Northwest Centretown who suffer from a severe lack of amenities nearby despite the density.

The main thing that will have to be addressed is the messy, pedestrian-hostile Albert-Slater-Bronson-Commissioners intersection. With the Transitway buses being taken off the road in 2018, there's an opportunity to rethink the design. I hope McKenney pushes for this instead of getting grumpy and refusing to work with the chosen site.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #550  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 4:15 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
Look at Google maps: there is no hill between this west edge of this site (Albert/Brickhill) at Booth St (where Pimisi station will be).

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.41442...2!8i6656?hl=en
Yes, Nanny Goat Hill is to the east and south of there. If there is any slope, it is not really that significant. Of course, in order to walk into downtown, you have to walk up a significant slope. I expect that there is very limited public parking nearby, unlike the current library location.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #551  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 4:19 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
I think that location works well. The point about it being basically the only location in the core (both traditional and extended) that has a long term guarantee of abundant natural light is a big factor, considering what the new library is intended to be.

It's very close to Pimisi station (three minute walk for a fit person; five minutes for a senior with a walker) and not that far from Lyon either. More importantly, it could help bridge the gap between Centretown and Lebreton. It's long been noted on here that the war memorial blocks off Rideau Street and the Market from the downtown proper by creating a big dead zone in between the two. A similar problem could easily happen with Centretown & Lebreton, given that there's the escarpment and the Garden of the Provinces creating a similar effect. A significant node of activity, like a public library, could serve to bridge the gap. It's also a nice boost for the residents of Northwest Centretown who suffer from a severe lack of amenities nearby despite the density.

The main thing that will have to be addressed is the messy, pedestrian-hostile Albert-Slater-Bronson-Commissioners intersection. With the Transitway buses being taken off the road in 2018, there's an opportunity to rethink the design. I hope McKenney pushes for this instead of getting grumpy and refusing to work with the chosen site.
True. I have spoken about this before, that even a couple of blocks of emptiness is a major impediment to pedestrians. That is why Lansdowne is working so well. It filled in that kind of anti-pedestrian gap on Bank Street.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #552  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 4:50 AM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
The main thing that will have to be addressed is the messy, pedestrian-hostile Albert-Slater-Bronson-Commissioners intersection. With the Transitway buses being taken off the road in 2018, there's an opportunity to rethink the design. I hope McKenney pushes for this instead of getting grumpy and refusing to work with the chosen site.
Maybe it's time for this idea to move forward? (Note the library site is in the block where the "CO" in "CONCEPT" is written, between Commissioners and Brickhill).



(from http://www.westsideaction.com/civic-gateways-absense-of)

If this was implemented, then what if the 2nd or 3rd floor of the library was built over Albert (where Commissioners Street is now?) You could make an entrance at Bronson & Slater, thereby avoiding much of the hill.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #553  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 2:25 PM
acottawa acottawa is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 16,671
I think this location was inevitable once LAC got involved but it a fairly all-around poor choice. The escarpment is an obstacle for a lot of people, so it isn't really walkable from most of centretown or downtown (which is where a lot of the Library's customer base will be) it is far from where most of the people on Lebreton will live, it is not particularly accessible by car from Ontario (which is how 80% of people in the city get around) and even transit access will be quite windswept and unpleasant except when the weather is really nice.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #554  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 2:35 PM
passwordisnt123 passwordisnt123 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ottawa (Centretown)
Posts: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Notice the link between the Trillium Line and the Confederation Line on the map. I don't remember ever seeing that alignment before. This kind of connection leaves Bayview station intact as presently being constructed.

Previous connections had Bayview station move somewhat east where the lines linked together. Of course, that choice was discarded.

What is the status of the alternative shown on the map? Also discarded?
That alignment was initially proposed in the very early planning documents for the confederation line, back when they were still thinking about doing the ultra-deep "cross country" alignment through centretown under Larry O'Brien.

It got scrapped quite a number of years ago but I guess it's still not fully dead yet because they reserve the right to resuscitate it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #555  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 2:52 PM
AndyMEng AndyMEng is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
Maybe it's time for this idea to move forward? (Note the library site is in the block where the "CO" in "CONCEPT" is written, between Commissioners and Brickhill).



(from http://www.westsideaction.com/civic-gateways-absense-of)

If this was implemented, then what if the 2nd or 3rd floor of the library was built over Albert (where Commissioners Street is now?) You could make an entrance at Bronson & Slater, thereby avoiding much of the hill.
I tend to agree. There's a possibility to fly the building out to the intersection of Bronson-North and Albert, to land gently there. Also to extend far west so that the access is a low-slope, short bike-pathway-esque passage directly to Pimisi Station. Super excited for this. I hope that a design competition shortly follows!!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #556  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 3:13 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
True. I have spoken about this before, that even a couple of blocks of emptiness is a major impediment to pedestrians. That is why Lansdowne is working so well. It filled in that kind of anti-pedestrian gap on Bank Street.
You get it; i get it - why don't our planners get it?

These kinds of gaps, whether accidental as a lot is left vacant for years, decades, centuries, or on purpose as a city succumbs to "open space" fetishism, absolutely kill street life and pedestrian-paced comfort levels. Yet the NIMBY community insists on overly-generous building setbacks, "open space", and so on, that is counterproductive to good urbanism.

The same Ottawans who come back from Europe wondering why Ottawa or other north American cities aren't more like London or Paris or Prague, then activate their Outrage2000 chip the second anyone proposes building or doing anything to Ottawa's built fabric that would make it less North American and a little more old-world human-scaled. It is baffling.
__________________
___
Enjoy my taxes, Orleans (and Kanata?).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #557  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 3:16 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by passwordisnt123 View Post
That alignment was initially proposed in the very early planning documents for the confederation line, back when they were still thinking about doing the ultra-deep "cross country" alignment through centretown under Larry O'Brien.

It got scrapped quite a number of years ago but I guess it's still not fully dead yet because they reserve the right to resuscitate it.
Nice, smooth curves in that proposed realignment.

Nice, smooth, suburban-style curves. So very good for suburban drivers. Will let them continue to drive fast and without due care to their surroundings.

Why does Ottawa keep importing suburban road geometries into the downtown core? This is the exact opposite of what three or four decades worth of planning philosophy has called for. It is antithetical to the goals of the official planning documents, and hostile to anyone who isn't driving a private auto. And yet... it keeps happening.
__________________
___
Enjoy my taxes, Orleans (and Kanata?).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #558  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 3:44 PM
AndyMEng AndyMEng is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Nice, smooth curves in that proposed realignment.

Nice, smooth, suburban-style curves. So very good for suburban drivers. Will let them continue to drive fast and without due care to their surroundings.

Why does Ottawa keep importing suburban road geometries into the downtown core? This is the exact opposite of what three or four decades worth of planning philosophy has called for. It is antithetical to the goals of the official planning documents, and hostile to anyone who isn't driving a private auto. And yet... it keeps happening.
The only edit to the intersection required is to delete the weird triangular island. Delete the island, change over the intersection so that the Northbound Bronson 'road' is bi-direction, with standard left and right hand turns. Keep the eastbound lanes and westbound lanes the same. It would create much less circular, fast paced driving, and confusing pedestrian signals.

One time I was biking across this mess, and I watched a Jeep Cherokee come down the Bronson hill (heading north) go through the intersection veering left onto the SOUTHBOUND Bronson lanes (at which time there is a single 'do not enter' sign on a pole in an intersection of a million other signs). And the truck actually went full speed down the southbound lanes, across Albert without stopping (as there is no signage indicating to stop), and onto Commissioners, taking a jump of about 15 feet in the air. It was pure insanity. There's no signage to slow or stop (other than the green light at the base of the Bronson hill), and its not obvious. I can only imagine what it must have been like inside that truck! lol

But in all serious, the intersection is ridiculous and unsafe. Imagine the truck had broadsided a full bus, travelling at 60km/hr. A complete disaster.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #559  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 5:29 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,774
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Notice the link between the Trillium Line and the Confederation Line on the map. I don't remember ever seeing that alignment before. This kind of connection leaves Bayview station intact as presently being constructed.

Previous connections had Bayview station move somewhat east where the lines linked together. Of course, that choice was discarded.

What is the status of the alternative shown on the map? Also discarded?
Don't get your hopes up. The line eats into the Sens' redevelopment.


As for the proposed library site, it seems the library board tailor-made the evaluation criteria around this site. Seems to be a classic move for governments (anyone take the electoral reform survey? Basically stating that only majority governments work).

Anyway, site is terrible. On a hill, not easily accessible for those with disabilities, an awkward walk from Pimisi station, smack down in the middle of a dead zone, little accessibility by car, far from the central LeBreton development and the CBD. Little visibility. One thing you need with a library is a site with exposure. No one ever walks by that site, and never will unless you plan on going to the library in the first place. My first choice would be the Sens' proposal on the east side of Booth, directly connected to the Pimisi Station. Site is owned by the City and NCC so it wouldn't cost anything, just like the one chosen by the board. Second choice would be Ottawa Tech.

Last edited by J.OT13; Dec 16, 2016 at 5:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #560  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2016, 5:33 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Don't get your hopes up. The line eats into the Sens' redevelopment.
If only there was some way of building things over rail lines.
__________________
___
Enjoy my taxes, Orleans (and Kanata?).
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Downtown & City of Ottawa
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:17 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.