Winnipeg James Armstrong Richardson International Airport

[Myst]

By far the most important route addition would be United or Air Canada to Chicago. As a connecting gateway, business destination, and to expedite what has become a tedious journey. And UA/AC because frequent flyer loyalty would be zero for AA.

Everyone likes the idea of more routes, but in terms of making it easier to get places I would say not to overlook something else - more flights and larger aircraft to MSP. It is one of the best airports to connect at, and more choice of schedule might actually be better than cramming the terminal with one or two more destinations but everything leaving at 7am.

The Virden oil industry wouldn’t be enough to drive a Texas flight - that’s much more connected to Calgary. And American has not done much in Canada for quite some time. And international to South America being covered by ATL, I don’t see it for some time.

Detroit is a decent airport to connect at, but I’m not sure it does anything MSP doesn’t. Not too long before Northwest merged with Delta there was a limited seasonal DTW service and a short lived SLC route. I don’t think either route is necessary - we are better served with LAX and ATL.

I would have preferred if ATL was operated by Delta. And WestJet doesn’t exactly have the right fleet for a lot of routes. But have taken my first YWG-ATL flight, and was pleased it was full the day I was aboard.

An added MSP frequency operated by WestJet would also be interesting, because for midday flights the turnaround would have the northbound later than the southbound, which would be a better schedule. But I think WestJet wants a bigger piece of the pie than the short hop to feed DL. It would be smart to just find the best way to serve customers, but often business strategies are not flexible to that.

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by Myst

By far the most important route addition would be United or Air Canada to Chicago. As a connecting gateway, business destination, and to expedite what has become a tedious journey. And UA/AC because frequent flyer loyalty would be zero for AA.

Everyone likes the idea of more routes, but in terms of making it easier to get places I would say not to overlook something else - more flights and larger aircraft to MSP. It is one of the best airports to connect at, and more choice of schedule might actually be better than cramming the terminal with one or two more destinations but everything leaving at 7am.

The Virden oil industry wouldn’t be enough to drive a Texas flight - that’s much more connected to Calgary. And American has not done much in Canada for quite some time. And international to South America being covered by ATL, I don’t see it for some time.

Detroit is a decent airport to connect at, but I’m not sure it does anything MSP doesn’t. Not too long before Northwest merged with Delta there was a limited seasonal DTW service and a short lived SLC route. I don’t think either route is necessary - we are better served with LAX and ATL.

I would have preferred if ATL was operated by Delta. And WestJet doesn’t exactly have the right fleet for a lot of routes. But have taken my first YWG-ATL flight, and was pleased it was full the day I was aboard.

An added MSP frequency operated by WestJet would also be interesting, because for midday flights the turnaround would have the northbound later than the southbound, which would be a better schedule. But I think WestJet wants a bigger piece of the pie than the short hop to feed DL. It would be smart to just find the best way to serve customers, but often business strategies are not flexible to that.

Agree and disagree. As nice as MSP is to connect through, we should not be restricting ourselves to that airport as our main connection point. The connecting routes there are okay, but other airports offer more choices. WAA should be aiming to set up as many hub destinations as possible, not just MSP. I would love to see Chicago back, along with Dallas and one of Boston or NY as well. This way we will have a plethora of options to chose from in connecting flights. It sets us up as a city for connecting to the world. Also, I would like to see a European route here as well, towards the end of the decade at the lastest. As we will likely be a CMA of 1M plus by that time, there will be more demand for an international connection hub. London, or maybe Iceland would be a great connecting point for Europe.

But it's not just about connections hub. More seasonal destinations to places like Nashville, San Francisco, San Diego and destinations in Central America would be great adds. Having more direct service from your city is about having a better quality of life, reducing travel time and focusing more on your holiday destinations.

I'm confident most if not all of this is on the horizon. Travel from WJARIA will look a lot different in the 2030s with much more selection and choices that Winnipeggers deserve.

Edit-again, I don't know how that stupid sad faced emoji made its way into my post haha

[Myst]

It’s not entirely a question of OR instead of AND. But it partially is.

The Palm Springs route seems relevant. I haven’t looked if it is back this winter. And it served a certain market. But LAX is far more important to connectivity and economy. If PSP bleeds away any LAX traffic, then supporting LAX needs to be the focus. And getting it to full daily schedule.

I don’t want my only choice to be MSP, but hear me out. A significant percentage of my flying has ended up connecting in YYZ or YYC on at least one half of the trip. Because of schedule and availability. I would have preferred to support US service to MSP. If Detroit simply offers another routing option to Cleveland or Baltimore, and not a lot of new destinations and little other international carrier linkups, then having a choice of 7am MSP flight or 7:30 DTW would mean I’m still stuck going through Toronto a lot of times. Before the pandemic I was on the late MSP arrival often enough I still remember the flight number at the time (2650) but valued any time I could take the earlier arrival. Overnighting a second aircraft with an earlier arrival time would be an improvement to making it easier to get here.

If we need 1000 or 1500 seats per day to the US, it is relevant to ask how does that get split up?

We have a lot of seasonal less than daily flights. To Mexico, Caribbean, Florida, and the southwest. It serves a market. And it’s not all bad to have some of the low margin traffic bled away onto low cost operators. But I would fear that too much more of that pulls traffic that we need building daily year round service.

MSP+ATL+LAX is not a bad basic starting point. DL and WS are kind of half competitors, half partners, but we need another competing option from a network carrier.

I used to like flying via Denver. I’d like to see it return. But LAX is more important, and PHX is well enough established that I don’t know that there’s enough space to split that regional market into another pie piece yet.


As in North America, equipment is relevant to Europe. The A321LR would be fairly well suited to a route like Dublin or Keflavic.

[Justanothermember]

WS has actually increased the number of flights to Palm Springs this winter in comparison to last winter, going from 1-2 flights per week to now 3 to 4 flights per week, all with the LA flight présent. Same for Orlando. Service to PHX has been extended from end of April to end of June. WS doesn't appear to believe that the new-ish ALT or LAX flights have impacted traditional seasonal routes. People were crying that the ATL would take away from the MSP flights, well that doesn't seem to have happened either. There seems to be this ingrained fear that we can only sustain one or two large year-round connection destinations south of the border, and that any additional destinations would somehow shatter this illogically perceived balance. So far that has proven not to be the case. There is demand for travel from this city, and as mentioned before, with the growing population will come a growing destination options base. It will happen, but things have been slower to bounce back post-pandemic for a multitude of reasons, most of which are now in the process of being addressed in order to keep up with the demand.

On a side note, the Flair website shows that the Ottawa, London, Kelowna and Victoria flights have been removed for next summer. I called Flair to get more info on this, and they told me that these destinations are still planned for YWG for next summer, but haven't been uploaded yet, so hopefully those make a return next year. I did dummy booking for those routes when they were active last year and the flights seemed pretty booked up, again showing there is demand, alongside with the WS flights to these centres.

[Myst]

I know it’s strange that I have mixed feelings on PSP. If it builds the market, good. But it does nothing for connectivity. And if it splits traffic - well, we need essential daily service. I’d wish the increased frequencies were LAX, as routings via YYC and YVR will persist unless it gets to daily. And for the route to be treated as part of WS’s core network, not an opportunistic nice-to-have.

There’s an irony - even if YWG-ATL has a better load factor than YYC-ATL, it will still be the one that is more tenuous, because of hub strategies. That is even more true for LAX.

There is a logical argument. US passenger counts are still 35% below 2019. Domestic are 2.5% higher. The loss of ORD and DEN have not yet been made up for. I look forward to seeing next years summer schedule.

Looking back at my flight log, out of my last 20 trips, about 30% of them had a YYZ or YYC stop on at least one direction that I very much would have preferred MSP (or ORD or DEN).

If I set the priorities - and obviously I don’t - I’d like to see:
1. ORD return
2. Another MSP frequency
3. LAX daily
4. ATL and LAX scheduled a bit later to allow Sask or Thunder Bay connections

That would make a good year, and DEN or an Atlantic route next.

Time will tell.

[Justanothermember]

TBH, it is a bit strange to continue thinking that way when the both the airline and passengers number say otherwise, showing a lack of confidence in the markets ability. But that is okay, you aren't the only one. People in this city still exert a self-depreciating attitude, thinking that too much change will result in bad things and the sky falling down to the ground. There is a real chance that the CMA will reach 1M by 2027, and 1.2M by 2030 assuming continued population growth levels. This equates to more travellers, and more travellers require more non-stop options, again as part of the quality of life factor I've previously stated. As such, I can easily see the LAX and ATL flights going daily in the next year or two. I also see such seasonal flight like Halifax and Victoria also becoming year round flights.

I only see more routes being added in the near future, be it connection hub, business or leisure destinations. I'm excited for the future, and with a hopefully more positive attitude from governing bodies, things will really take off around here

[Myst]

I’m actually not a native winnipegger… and I’ve said since I moved here that the city has an inferiority complex. We need to celebrate some things rather than apologize for them. We have 4 seasons - that’s good. We have great cultural pursuits. We need to get better at selling what we’ve got. And we have a population that does get out and about in the world.

If WS is successful on PSP, good. But as far as numbers - US passenger numbers are still down 35% from 2019. That indicates an opportunity. Crew shortages, and the lack of right-sized aircraft for potential routes are real issues.

There’s a saying in racing that “horsepower sells cars but torque wins races.” I’m not being down on things - I am saying that announcements and bragging rights of number of new destinations isn’t what drives the numbers - it’s the workhorse / baseload stuff.

We also need to celebrate that our well diversified economy means that no one sector drives things. Have you ever watched connecting flight screens when arriving elsewhere? The diversification is also a challenge, as no one destination is a focus.

[Justanothermember]

Well it appears as though 'Fortress Calgary' isn't as much of a fortress as everyone thought for WS with the airline now expanding/re-introducing European service from Halifax, St.Johns and Toronto. This give a bit of hope for cities like like Winnipeg to be able to land a London flight, even if seasonal, in the next few years. WS did have a summer flight to London back in 2019, prior to COVID grounding all flights, so it's definately possible we would see this again at some point.

[Myst]

I think it is good news for another reason - if the final summer schedule is timed right, connecting in Halifax will be a decent option. And incremental YHZ traffic could support making YWG-YHZ daily. With a little bit of potential for WS to offer YWG-YHZ-Europe fares at a low price to fill Europe seats, which would also make a case for nonstops.

Equipment is relevant, though. If WS operated A321LR’s then this announcement might even have been here. But the 737max has shorter legs by a few hundred critical miles. I don’t entirely dismiss AC, but as expensive as LHR slots are, it is a lot harder to see that happening. And it’s hard to see another airport AC would serve.

[Justanothermember]

If I'm forced to connect in Canada, Halifax would be my preferred option until we get a London flight for ourselves. I believe both scenarios will pay out over time.

[Justanothermember]

Taken from the Canadian Airport Thread


YWG added 3 more months of pax stats: https://www.waa.ca/assets/pages/Webs...-Q3-2023_1.pdf

Here's September 2023 and YTD:

Sector / Sep-22 / Sep-23 / % Change
Dom: 287,772 / 338,395 / +17.6%
TB: 11,444 / 24,975 / +118.2%
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 299,216 / 363,370 / +21.4%

Sector / YTD 2022 / YTD 2023 / % Change
Dom: 2,015,450 / 2,790,225 / +38.4%
TB: 109,046 / 226,150 / +107.4%
Int'l: 36,279 / 119,626 / +229.7%
TTL: 2,160,775 / 3,136,001 / +45.1% - YWG is on pace for ~4.07M pax so neck & neck with YOW for #6

Month-Over-Month Change
Sector / Aug-23 / Sep-23 / % Change
Dom: 408,602 / 338,395 / -17.2%
TB: 25,144 / 24,975 / -0.7%
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 433,746 / 363,370 / -16.2%
Avg/Day: 13,992 / 12,112 / -13.4%
% of month's avg daily pax vs full year 2019 (12,286 avg pax/day) = 98.6%
YTD TTL vs YTD 2019 = 90.9%
2019 Avg Sept pax/day: 12,159
% of month's avg daily pax vs the same month in 2019 = 99.6% - big difference between YWG and YOW here - shows how much Ottawa-Toronto day tripper traffic has been lost to Zoom/Teams.

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2021
Dom: 3,570,495 / +199.0%
TB: 282,010 / +1,235.2%
Int'l: 153,835 / +1,866.9%
TTL: 4,006,340 / +227.6%

[Myst]

Crunching that data, I like using Q3 data because it flattens out the fluctuations, and Q3 is mostly clear of seasonal routes. Hope I added right:

Q3. 2019. 2023
Domestic. 1,045,108. 1,133,769
US. 112,113. 71,933
Total. 1,157,221. 1,205,702

I don’t recall if there was any LAS nonstop this summer? And I didn’t pay.attention to exact aircraft used on LAX. But 2x daily A319 + 3x weekly 737-700 would give a capacity of about 58,872 in and outbound seats. Obviously I didn’t add the ATL seats in September. And I may be misremembering - was it A320’s through part of the season? Or where did I miscalculate?

In any case, one daily A319 or 737-700 adds about 8000 in/outbound seats per month. The 737-800 is roughly the same with 5 days operating. Meaning that the ATL route plus one more mainline aircraft flight or 2x daily 70 seaters basically gets US traffic back to where it was.

[Myst]

Incidentally, I looked at the WS press release today. The aircraft they took away from Calgary-Gatwick looks like it will be used to operate more Calgary-Tokyo.

Given that the eastern expansion to Europe I think was 4x daily total (I presume 737’s), I think it was a strategic choice. But one does wonder - chicken or egg? Was the LGW slots moved to support the eastern strategy, or is YHZ/YYT somewhere to park those slots while the 787 is freed up for NRT? But I guess that’s not YWG related until they get more aircraft…

[Justanothermember]

With yet more WestJet network expansion announcements this month, this time in Regina, I'm do hope they will share the love for us with the anticipated route expansion here before the end of the year. It would be a nice little Xmas gift to the city they are supposedly focusing on for hub-like expansion.

Here is hoping Kattiffs predictions come true sooner rather than later

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

With yet more WestJet network expansion announcements this month, this time in Regina, I'm do hope they will share the love for us with the anticipated route expansion here before the end of the year. It would be a nice little Xmas gift to the city they are supposedly focusing on for hub-like expansion.

Here is hoping Kattiffs predictions come true sooner rather than later

Maybe this will mean a 2nd daily Regina - Winnipeg flight. With some increases in flights to both cities may make sense to have an afternoon q400 flight too.

[bomberjet]

How about changing the Winnipeg-Regina flight from noon, to another time other than noon. Really terrible for timing.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Jammon

I was looking at flight options to PV in January. I can't believe how poor the choices are right now. Lengthy layovers and the direct flights were ridiculously expensive. And I checked Toronto and Calgary and the options there were not much better. Why don't we have more direct flights down there?

R.

I think the challenge with more flights from YWG to PVR at this point is the PVR end seems to be near capacity. Due to renovations immigration and customs is running about 2/3 capacity. There are some reports online of it taking inbound passengers 2+ hours on the ground in the airport currently. WS is also flying 787 planes from most other western cities to PVR so perhaps upgrading from the current 737-8 would be a possible option if demand is there. I also know mid-afternoon slots in PVR seem to be at a premium currently with a fairly tight stream of inbound flights.

Which brings up the next point, on Sunday I had something I don't ever recall happening before at YWG, a ground hold for CBSA! Our flight landed about 20 minutes ahead of schedule and we were put in a ground hold until our expected arrival time. The pilot claimed they were waiting on a gate but with five gates capable of receiving cross-border flights this seemed more like a staff and capacity issue of the processing area than a gate issue. Not a big deal as it is a positive thing to have happen as it means the airport is busy.

[Johnny199r]

I wish the Halifax to Winnipeg flight was year round.

Flying direct during the summer is great.

Having to fly through Toronto at xmas (or anytime outside of May-October) to get to Halifax is hell.

[Biff]

Tell me about it. I can fly pretty much anywhere from Toronto to Vancouver for about $400. I need to go to Halifax the first week of Jan and the best I can find right now is about $1500.

[drew]

^ did you try Porter?