Burnaby Updates

[Lexus]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Got a card in the mail about this - BC Parkway Enhancement Project



The survey is open until April 28.

This is the dumbest idea to put the park beneath a very loud skytrain, all they need to do is a nice pavement, and improve crossings for example at Willington Avenue. Perhaps do some lighting, and install trash cans

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Lexus

This is the dumbest idea to put the park beneath a very loud skytrain, all they need to do is a nice pavement, and improve crossings for example at Willington Avenue. Perhaps do some lighting, and install trash cans

...and that's some of what they're asking people.

FYI Plaza 88 / Shops at New West Station are way closer to the Skytrain and people congregate there. Aside from not talking right when the train is overhead, it's not really that loud.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Sheba

...and that's some of what they're asking people.

FYI Plaza 88 / Shops at New West Station are way closer to the Skytrain and people congregate there. Aside from not talking right when the train is overhead, it's not really that loud.

Pretty much like hanging out at Creek Side Park in downtown Vancouver.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Pretty much like hanging out at Creek Side Park in downtown Vancouver.

Or people hanging out at Pier Park in New West when a train is rumbling along right next to it.

Yeah I don't think people are going to have a big issue with noise from the Skytrain. I've hung out with a friend over by Patterson Station and it was fine - over by Metrotown it was louder but we'd just stop talking until the train went past us. Even over by Royal Oak (where this survey ends) it doesn't seem to be that loud.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Lexus

This is the dumbest idea to put the park beneath a very loud skytrain, all they need to do is a nice pavement, and improve crossings for example at Willington Avenue. Perhaps do some lighting, and install trash cans

I think you're thinking very narrowly about a "park".

There are plenty of uses that would be great fits underneath and alongside the guideway, including playgrounds, sports courts, community gardens, skate parks, a farmers' market, a food truck fair, etc.

Some traditional park features, like benches in quiet areas for sitting, may not seem like a great fit but the Parkway stretch between Willingdon and Patterson is actually very quiet thanks to low vehicle traffics. I would happily spend time in a linear park along there.

One of Metrotown's biggest needs is a hardscaped public gather space. Civic Square is nice, but with its grass it is not a good fit for foodtrucks, pop-up art spaces, or impromptu social gatherings. The space around Metrotown Station should be hardscaped with lots of active, loud uses. And the rest of the Parkway is severely underutilized, and has potential to be a great third place.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I think you're thinking very narrowly about a "park".

There are plenty of uses that would be great fits underneath and alongside the guideway, including playgrounds, sports courts, community gardens, skate parks, a farmers' market, a food truck fair, etc.

Some traditional park features, like benches in quiet areas for sitting, may not seem like a great fit but the Parkway stretch between Willingdon and Patterson is actually very quiet thanks to low vehicle traffics. I would happily spend time in a linear park along there.

One of Metrotown's biggest needs is a hardscaped public gather space. Civic Square is nice, but with its grass it is not a good fit for foodtrucks, pop-up art spaces, or impromptu social gatherings. The space around Metrotown Station should be hardscaped with lots of active, loud uses. And the rest of the Parkway is severely underutilized, and has potential to be a great third place.

I find the areas outside the Metrotown section (basically Willingdon to Imperial) to be fairly quiet and would be a good fit for the activities you listed. That's why when I added markers to their map I spent more time adding stuff there and less in the Metrotown section (where there were already a bunch of markers).

Hopefully they start doing the section past Royal Oak soon (I asked about that previously and they said it'll be a separate project). There's a lot of open space from Royal Oak to Gilley that could be put to good use - also a potential brewery district.

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I think you're thinking very narrowly about a "park".

There are plenty of uses that would be great fits underneath and alongside the guideway, including playgrounds, sports courts, community gardens, skate parks, a farmers' market, a food truck fair, etc.

Some traditional park features, like benches in quiet areas for sitting, may not seem like a great fit but the Parkway stretch between Willingdon and Patterson is actually very quiet thanks to low vehicle traffics. I would happily spend time in a linear park along there.

One of Metrotown's biggest needs is a hardscaped public gather space. Civic Square is nice, but with its grass it is not a good fit for foodtrucks, pop-up art spaces, or impromptu social gatherings. The space around Metrotown Station should be hardscaped with lots of active, loud uses. And the rest of the Parkway is severely underutilized, and has potential to be a great third place.

Agreed with all of this. The negative space under a guideway can be used very positively. Plenty of other cities have turned this into great-opportunity.

Not sure if able to link, but this article highlights some examples of activating these sorts of spaces. https://archive.curbed.com/2017/1/9/...ss-park-public

If taking the art-scape route, a very colorful example here: https://www.shine.cn/news/metro/2102064410/

[Zepfancouver]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

...The negative space under a guideway can be used very positively...

That's where all the picklball courts should be, or has that activity died out, a passing fad, I don't here of it on the news anymore.

[ecbin]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I think you're thinking very narrowly about a "park".

There are plenty of uses that would be great fits underneath and alongside the guideway, including playgrounds, sports courts, community gardens, skate parks, a farmers' market, a food truck fair, etc.

Some traditional park features, like benches in quiet areas for sitting, may not seem like a great fit but the Parkway stretch between Willingdon and Patterson is actually very quiet thanks to low vehicle traffics. I would happily spend time in a linear park along there.

One of Metrotown's biggest needs is a hardscaped public gather space. Civic Square is nice, but with its grass it is not a good fit for foodtrucks, pop-up art spaces, or impromptu social gatherings. The space around Metrotown Station should be hardscaped with lots of active, loud uses. And the rest of the Parkway is severely underutilized, and has potential to be a great third place.

The portion of Central Park just north of Patterson seems ripe for a public space that's more social - Farmer's market, food truck etc. Other than a softball field it's basically a dead zone that no one uses. Put a playground in, pave a bit more of the parking lot for a bigger farmer's market/food truck area, maybe even a small building that allows for some permanent retail like a bakery/coffee shop.

[BaddieB]

The Royal Oak plan is in the works!

It has been revised to comply with new Provincial TOD legislation.





The zoning maps are pretty good, however, I take a big issue with the plans for cycling and bus routes.

According to Figure 14 below, there are no plans for bike lanes on Royal Oak because "On character streets, there will be limited dedicated cycling infrastructure, encouraging slower cycling speeds", which is a straight up line considering there will be four lanes of 50km/h car traffic instead.



Worse, there are no plans for bus routes on Figure 15 on Royal Oak. Royal Oak Station and Avenue are very underserved by buses. Royal Oak Avenue really should have a north-south bus route, everything funnels at Metrotown it seems.



Another issue is a lack of expanding commercial space. There should be commercial zoned on every corner. It doesn't have to be big, just cafes and bodegas such would greatly benefit the neighbourhood. Walkability isn't just about density.

I encourage everyone to read through the document, and email Email
[email protected] is you have any problems with it.

https://yourvoice.burnaby.ca/royal-o...TY1My42MC4wLjA.

[Lexus]

I also waiting/ curious to see what will happen near Burquitlam station west on North Rd.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by BaddieB

The Royal Oak plan is in the works!

It has been revised to comply with new Provincial TOD legislation.

......

I couldn't agree with you more on most of these points.
It's a great start for the plan - with the increase of density zoning in the areas close to Royal Oak Station and even the old Safeway site, that got a major bump up to up to 30 stories.
But it could be improved a lot in the areas you pointed out.

Originally Posted by BaddieB

Worse, there are no plans for bus routes on Figure 15 on Royal Oak. Royal Oak Station and Avenue are very underserved by buses. Royal Oak Avenue really should have a north-south bus route, everything funnels at Metrotown it seems.

What's ironic about this, is that Royal Oak is already frequented heavily with buses.
But it's just buses that are either leaving the depot to start their routes in the morning, or heading back to there at the end of the day.

It's just that passengers can't use them
So it's not like the street can't handle bus traffic, because it already does.

I guess they feel the Darts are suffecient enough, but their frequency sucks - Especially for people who live on the south slope.

Originally Posted by BaddieB

Another issue is a lack of expanding commercial space. There should be commercial zoned on every corner. It doesn't have to be big, just cafes and bodegas such would greatly benefit the neighbourhood. Walkability isn't just about density.

I encourage everyone to read through the document, and email Email
[email protected] is you have any problems with it.

......

Another great point.
There's a dire lack of commercial and retail options even for simple home groceries in the area.
Made even more so worse with the closure of the Safeway several years ago.
I hope whatever development gets to occupy that site programs or allows for some decent sized grocery or food store space.

Between Kingsway to the north and Rumble to the south where you can then find the likes of the Buy-Low Foods at the Rumble and Royal Oak junction and strip mall, there's almost nothing.

The one small family grocery at the Royal Oak station corner and that's about it.
It's great to see that the new residential developments just north of the Royal Oak station have included retail options at ground level, - including the Rental building that's just coming up just west of Royal Oak, and the BCGEU development on Palm should also help a bit once that get's built out - but the area really needs more.

Especially south of Royal Oak and before you get all the way to Rumble.

Mixed use/Commercial zoning at corners would be a great help in this regard.


Part of the big problem with Royal Oak and being the Royal Oak neighbourhood is that everyone pretty much defaults to Metrotown and the mall as being their destination for grocery and major commercial needs.
So the area has generally always been greatly under-served in this regard.

They should really start looking at it as its own growing and independent neighbourhood with more and more people going to start living around there in the coming years as these developments get built out, and as such prepare for the needs they'll have such as better retail options WITHIN the area, along with the other things you pointed out like the walkability, biking routes (with biking being a very popular and common activity in the area, to be fair) and better intergration with the green spaces, urban parks, the planned brewerey district and linear park.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

Not sure if able to link, but this article highlights some examples of activating these sorts of spaces. https://archive.curbed.com/2017/1/9/...ss-park-public

Thank you for sharing. There are some great ideas in that article.

I think in general the Skytrain guideway and ROW are very underutilized in Metro Vancouver. Some sections are space constrained (Millennium Line from Gilmore to Renfrew) or are inaccessible (Grandview Trench), but there is a wealth of opportunities to improve the CVG and BC Parkway into true linear parks in several areas.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by BaddieB

The Royal Oak plan is in the works!

It has been revised to comply with new Provincial TOD legislation.





The zoning maps are pretty good, however, I take a big issue with the plans for cycling and bus routes.

According to Figure 14 below, there are no plans for bike lanes on Royal Oak because "On character streets, there will be limited dedicated cycling infrastructure, encouraging slower cycling speeds", which is a straight up line considering there will be four lanes of 50km/h car traffic instead.



Worse, there are no plans for bus routes on Figure 15 on Royal Oak. Royal Oak Station and Avenue are very underserved by buses. Royal Oak Avenue really should have a north-south bus route, everything funnels at Metrotown it seems.



Another issue is a lack of expanding commercial space. There should be commercial zoned on every corner. It doesn't have to be big, just cafes and bodegas such would greatly benefit the neighbourhood. Walkability isn't just about density.

I encourage everyone to read through the document, and email Email
[email protected] is you have any problems with it.

https://yourvoice.burnaby.ca/royal-o...TY1My42MC4wLjA.

And people say Burnaby loves its SFHs. All I see is even their "Village" plans are way more ambitious than Vancouver's commercial/town centres, including some parts of downtown. For a suburb bedroom community this speaks volumes.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

And people say Burnaby loves its SFHs. All I see is even their "Village" plans are way more ambitious than Vancouver's commercial/town centres, including some parts of downtown. For a suburb bedroom community this speaks volumes.

People said it, because it was true. Burnaby have produced the new plan because the provincial government introduced legislation to require density around stations. Vancouver will have to do the same, where they haven't already adopted plans like the Broadway Plan that allows greater density around those stations.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Vin

And people say Burnaby loves its SFHs. All I see is even their "Village" plans are way more ambitious than Vancouver's commercial/town centres, including some parts of downtown. For a suburb bedroom community this speaks volumes.

Didn't the Province make them issue this area plan for TOD?

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Changing City

People said it, because it was true. Burnaby have produced the new plan because the provincial government introduced legislation to require density around stations. Vancouver will have to do the same, where they haven't already adopted plans like the Broadway Plan that allows greater density around those stations.

Ah nice - appreciate the post! I have not been keeping track and wasn't 100% sure. I don't care who is making these changes as long as things get built myself.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Didn't the Province make them issue this area plan for TOD?

That area is way more than the Province's requirement. The up-zoning area looks way beyond a transit station. Compare this to, say, Marine Gateway or Broadway Stations, and you will see how vast it is. They really go all-out.

Originally Posted by Changing City

People said it, because it was true. Burnaby have produced the new plan because the provincial government introduced legislation to require density around stations. Vancouver will have to do the same, where they haven't already adopted plans like the Broadway Plan that allows greater density around those stations.

Hahaha.

Burnaby is way ahead of the Province. They already have had so many high density neighbourhoods around quite a few of their train stations, and by that I mean downtown-style densities. Nobody is acknowledging that?

The new Village plans are just a continuation of that trend, and the Royal Oak area is simply a continuation of Metrotown eastwards.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Burnaby's previous zoning plan for Royal Oak only replaced the walkup apartments and industrial areas, and didn't as much as touch the detached homes; Mike Hurley and Council were elected on the promise of halting rapid development and consulting residents, to the point that they weren't even willing to consider laneways until recently.

CC is correct: any expansion into the SFH areas is entirely thanks to David Eby and the BCNDP stepping in a few months ago... whereas Vancouver has already been doing this stuff for the last ten years.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Vin

That area is way more than the Province's requirement. The up-zoning area looks way beyond a transit station. Compare this to, say, Marine Gateway or Broadway Stations, and you will see how vast it is. They really go all-out.

I admit I'm only looking at this with one eyeball and I might be missing something but the Royal Oak TOD area plan has heights and metres from the station that resemble the Provincial TOD bill to a T. The Provincial TOD policy goes 800 metres out from a station.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/ho...categories.pdf

EDIT: Vin, you're right, Portland Streets looks to be about 850 metres from Royal Oak Station. It might just be easier the way the city of Burnaby planned it out - more practical maybe.