PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X - Page 273

McBane · #**5441** Posted **Dec 22, 2022, 2:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

The Rittenhouse Coffee Shop on Sansom was rebuilt and looks great in opinion. So it can be done and done well.

The actual critique should be about the execution and overbuild at this point.

Agree on both on these. I was actually thinking about the work that SLC did on Sansom Street as an example. The one major difference is that the Rittenhouse Coffee Shop was rebuilt as a distinct building whereas this (still very early and hypothetical) situation is a little different.

Which brings me to your second point. I just don't trust most developers to pay for the type of creativity needed to make this type of thing look good. But yes, this is what will make or break the project.

SEFTA · #**5442** Posted **Dec 22, 2022, 3:00 AM**

I think it's the scale that is important. The street face is what's historic, in a way. The neighborhood scale. The buildings destroyed were very basic and would take little to recreate or played upon.
With a set back tower, I think all could be happy.
After all, that is more the existing scale.
Giving a nod but not limiting it.
Didn't the hole on Jeweler's row have an original design where they mimicked the original buildings?

McBane · #**5443** Posted **Dec 22, 2022, 3:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEFTA

I think it's the scale that is important. The street face is what's historic, in a way. The neighborhood scale. The buildings destroyed were very basic and would take little to recreate or played upon.
With a set back tower, I think all could be happy.
After all, that is more the existing scale.
Giving a nod but not limiting it.
Didn't the hole on Jeweler's row have an original design where they mimicked the original buildings?

You mean to recreate these buildings at street level and then add the tower setback from the street as if it doesn't exist? Unpopular opinion but I hate this! I really dislike this approach where developers attempt to "hide" their buildings from the street level. It's as if there's this collective embarrassment or shame about tall buildings and we just have to pretend that nothing's changed in this city since the 19th century. Let's be proud of our City's progress!

Knight Hospitaller · #**5444** Posted **Dec 22, 2022, 4:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

You mean to recreate these buildings at street level and then add the tower setback from the street as if it doesn't exist? Unpopular opinion but I hate this! I really dislike this approach where developers attempt to "hide" their buildings from the street level. It's as if there's this collective embarrassment or shame about tall buildings and we just have to pretend that nothing's changed in this city since the 19th century. Let's be proud of our City's progress!

I don't think "hide" is an applicable word for a tower. I'd call it street-level "deference." After all, arson is not progress.

allovertown · #**5445** Posted **Dec 23, 2022, 2:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

touched up and restored is one thing, copying the original then displaying it after the original was destroyed, and hoping no one will notice or just saying that the copy is as good as the original, is quite another. you make an argument for maintaining historic buildings, not passing off copies as the original.

You're making it as though there is some type of clear distinction between touching up a painting and rebuilding a facade using original materials. Just because something is disassembled and rebuilt it doesn't mean it ceases to be original.

If someone disassembled a classic car, cleaned and restored each part, and then put it back together, would you really call that car a copy of the original?

Why is the painting more original than the reconstructed building? The touched up painting may no longer have a single original brushstroke from the original artist still visible. The reconstructed building has been rebuilt but if every piece of the facade has been maintained and placed in exactly the same location, you could easily make the argument that the reconstructed building is more original than the restored painting.

There are no definitive answers here, that's why this exact discussion is the subject of a classic millenias old thought experiment: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

At the end of the day, as with most things, taking things on a case by case basis is normally best, but generally if a building deemed historic is destroyed but it's facade can be preserved and rebuilt, that seems better than losing it entirely.

thoughtcriminal · #**5446** Posted **Dec 24, 2022, 3:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allovertown

You're making it as though there is some type of clear distinction between touching up a painting and rebuilding a facade using original materials. Just because something is disassembled and rebuilt it doesn't mean it ceases to be original.

Yes, the building was disassembled - in the same way that Elon Musk's rockets that explode are said to have undergone "Unscheduled Rapid Disassembly".

mcgrath618 · #**5447** Posted **Dec 25, 2022, 3:17 PM**

Merry Christmas SSP!

summersm343 · #**5448** Posted **Dec 25, 2022, 6:51 PM**

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

TonyTone · #**5449** Posted **Dec 26, 2022, 1:07 AM**

Merry Christmas everyone!

SEFTA · #**5450** Posted **Dec 26, 2022, 9:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

You mean to recreate these buildings at street level and then add the tower setback from the street as if it doesn't exist? Unpopular opinion but I hate this! I really dislike this approach where developers attempt to "hide" their buildings from the street level. It's as if there's this collective embarrassment or shame about tall buildings and we just have to pretend that nothing's changed in this city since the 19th century. Let's be proud of our City's progress!

No. I'm saying keep the scale of the street.
It's a mid block building.
In a historic neighborhood.
The Laurel didn't ignore the scale of the street but kept at least an acknowledgement of it. I believe that is considered set back.
It could easily be an abstraction of the originals.
It's what's appropriate for this site.
This is all much ado about nothing.
JUST FILL THE HOLE!
Preferably with a tower!

TonyTone · #**5451** Posted **Dec 29, 2022, 5:28 AM**

by Tony Valuez, on Flickr

DSC04121 by Tony Valuez, on Flickr

mcgrath618 · #**5452** Posted **Jan 1, 2023, 3:17 AM**

Any New Years predictions SSP?

frbrown · #**5453** Posted **Jan 1, 2023, 6:12 AM**

Happy New Years everyone!

summersm343 · #**5454** Posted **Jan 1, 2023, 2:20 PM**

Happy New Year everyone!

My predictions for Philly 2023:

-Penn’s Landing Park finally gets started
-A new 800+ footer is proposed
-1700 block of Walnut hole new tower construction starts
-Walnut is almost entirely re-leased with very few vacancies
-Homicide count finally gets back under 500 but still in the 400s
-New developments proposed down around the stadium

Gatorade_Jim · #**5455** Posted **Jan 1, 2023, 2:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

Happy New Year everyone!

My predictions for Philly 2023:

-Penn’s Landing Park finally gets started
-A new 800+ footer is proposed
-1700 block of Walnut hole new tower construction starts
-Walnut is almost entirely re-leased with very few vacancies
-Homicide count finally gets back under 500 but still in the 400s
-New developments proposed down around the stadium

Couldn’t have put together a better list than that!

thoughtcriminal · #**5456** Posted **Jan 1, 2023, 4:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

Happy New Year everyone!

My predictions for Philly 2023:

-Penn’s Landing Park finally gets started
-A new 800+ footer is proposed
-1700 block of Walnut hole new tower construction starts
-Walnut is almost entirely re-leased with very few vacancies
-Homicide count finally gets back under 500 but still in the 400s
-New developments proposed down around the stadium

I would put these on a wish list, but I don't know if I would predict them to come true.

PHLtoNYC · #**5457** Posted **Jan 1, 2023, 5:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

Happy New Year everyone!

My predictions for Philly 2023:

-Penn’s Landing Park finally gets started
-A new 800+ footer is proposed
-1700 block of Walnut hole new tower construction starts
-Walnut is almost entirely re-leased with very few vacancies
-Homicide count finally gets back under 500 but still in the 400s
-New developments proposed down around the stadium

I'm gonna say no to the bold, but good to be hopeful!

I'll add a few good and bad...

Philadelphia will elect Rebecca Rhynhart as Mayor.
The Jewelers Row Tower will start construction.
A major hotel will be announced in Center City.
Philadelphia's poverty rate will dip below 21%.
There will be NO movement on the Broad & Lombard project, the Durst apartment building, and Market East will fester for another year.

skyhigh07 · #**5458** Posted **Jan 1, 2023, 7:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I'm gonna say no to the bold, but good to be hopeful!

I'll add a few good and bad...

Philadelphia will elect Rebecca Rhynhart as Mayor.
The Jewelers Row Tower will start construction.
A major hotel will be announced in Center City.
Philadelphia's poverty rate will dip below 21%.
There will be NO movement on the Broad & Lombard project, the Durst apartment building, and Market East will fester for another year.

I think having most vacancies filled on Walnut by the end of this year is doable as long as the current momentum holds. Things have picked up steam over the last few months. Rescue Spa, Outdoor Voices, ThirdLove and Free People have all opened within the last month or so. Also, it looks like Saavta, Joybird and Madewell will probably open later this month and many others are apparently in the pipeline. Just wish the handful of vacant larger spaces would be filled quicker.

PHLtoNYC · #**5459** Posted **Jan 2, 2023, 4:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I think having most vacancies filled on Walnut by the end of this year is doable as long as the current momentum holds. Things have picked up steam over the last few months. Rescue Spa, Outdoor Voices, ThirdLove and Free People have all opened within the last month or so. Also, it looks like Saavta, Joybird and Madewell will probably open later this month and many others are apparently in the pipeline. Just wish the handful of vacant larger spaces would be filled quicker.

That assumes no closures too. But things are certainly on the up, so we will see.

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...cx_testVariant=cx_8&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

summersm343 · #**5460** Posted **Jan 2, 2023, 7:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

That assumes no closures too. But things are certainly on the up, so we will see.

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...cx_testVariant=cx_8&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

What else could close? Lol. At this point, Walnut has been almost entirely turned over.

The only space on the 1800 block will be once Barnes and Noble relocates.

The only space on the 1700 block will be the old Ann Taylor space and the empty lot, which hopefully we’ll hear more news on soon.

The only spaces on the 1600 block will be the Alma de Cuba spot (and there have been rumors Starr is planning a new concept here), the Ulta beauty spot, the old Townhome spot and the old Modell’s spot.

The only space on the 1500 block will be the old Taft space, My.Suit space, the Gap space and Club Monaco space.

I would say the 1400 block is in the worst shape at the moment, but hopefully the Bellevue renovations will give this block new life.

Not many spaces left.