What is it like to come home to Canada?

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

^ This vision is hard to accomplish in a country where to some extent national unity, or at least a semblance of universal quality of life, is achieved by the federal government using the power of the purse.

Though isn't that effort duplicated in a sense since there's already an equalization mechanism in place?

It's never made much sense that the federal tax brackets is 15% to 33%, but then Ontario would only get to tax the same income in the 5 to 13% range. At the very least it should be 50/50, since there's only one taxpayer at the end the of the day.

I agree that the large cities should also get a few taxation points to tax income, similar to the arrangement in NYC.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Really, the feds are doing to the provinces what the provinces do to municipalities. Here's the question though. How many people would actually vote for a federal party that said they were doing to scrap the Canada Health Act and scrap equalization and just let every province fend for itself.

Given how quickly the healthcare systems are deteriorating in every province, we are close to the point where voters will have to face the music, and we're going to have to reform and adopt two-tier healthcare and move away from the Canada Health Act.

If the politicians have foresight, we would transition to a more sustainable two-tier healthcare model akin to Germany, Switzerland or Singapore.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Given how quickly the healthcare systems are deteriorating in every province, we are close to the point where voters will have to face the music, and we're going to have to reform and adopt two-tier healthcare and move away from the Canada Health Act.

If the politicians have foresight, we would transition to a more sustainable two-tier healthcare model akin to Germany, Switzerland or Singapore.

Other than obvious ideological considerations of allowing privatization, I think a concern that isn't often recognized is universality. It's easy to say you're okay with private healthcare living in the GTA where you know any private service will offer lots of options and competition. The situation is likely to get different in Halifax, let alone say Cape Breton. At seeing level, I think federal governments (regardless of jersey colour) are concerned about such disparities.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Other than obvious ideological considerations of allowing privatization, I think a concern that isn't often recognized is universality. It's easy to say you're okay with private healthcare living in the GTA where you know any private service will offer lots of options and competition. The situation is likely to get different in Halifax, let alone say Cape Breton. At seeing level, I think federal governments (regardless of jersey colour) are concerned about such disparities.

But at the end of the day, our healthcare system in the current state is only sustainable if we can fund it properly. We are getting close to the point (if not already) that we need private funding to help keep the system afloat.

Right now so much tax dollars are already tied up in other social entitlement programs, that there's really nothing left to redirect to healthcare without a massive tax increase, given how the Canadian economy is not growing anymore on a per capita basis to increase the state's fiscal capacity.

Of course, as even kool maudit mentioned before, our income taxation levels aren't far off from Sweden and there's no political will to tax Casper's beloved real estate, so there's really not much room to increase taxes either.

[someone123]

I wonder a bit why dentistry seems to be fine for the majority but if you have some basic medical issue it can be a total disaster where you can't make appointments and be seen in a timely way.

I'm skeptical of this Halifax example. I don't have strong opinions on NS healthcare but it's a pretty big cluster for healthcare demand (around 700k people living in that region and for some services people go there from around Atlantic Canada which has 2.6 million people or something) and a large proportion of the population lives in areas like that or larger. Remote areas do seem special but there doesn't have to be a one-size-fits-all national healthcare approach. Healthcare is a provincial responsibility; ON and NS don't need to have the same systems.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I would argue that it's provincial governments that are superfluous. Most of the services I interact with daily are delivered by my municipal government and most of the services delivered by the provincial governments are regionalized anyway and could be delivered by municipal governments. But, for a whole bunch of historical and cultural reasons, it's hard to imagine Canada as a unitary state.

Really, the feds are doing to the provinces what the provinces do to municipalities. Here's the question though. How many people would actually vote for a federal party that said they were doing to scrap the Canada Health Act and scrap equalization and just let every province fend for itself.

There might be something to be said for replacing provinces and instituting a system of "districts" to replace them. The major metropolitan areas can be their own districts ("city-states" if you will) and then the rest of the country can split up into regional districts. In Ontario, for example, the GTA, Ottawa, Hamilton, London, KWC/Guelph, and Windsor could be city-state districts and the rest of the province could be split up into Northern, Eastern, and Southwestern regional districts.

A lot of people have brought up that the GTA would be better managed as a self governing entity. On the other hand, as an Ontarian who lives outside the GTA, it feels like GTA issues get way too much attention at Queen's Park and the rest of the province is almost an afterthought. Breaking up Ontario in this manner would work better for all of us, I think.

I think you're correct in saying that most provincial matters would be better handled at the local/regional level instead of provincewide. A system like this would basically achieve that. Goodgrowth had a point when he brought up that the provinces made a lot of sense 100 years ago when Canada was a mostly rural country with small cities. It's less logical in the modern age when the country is centred on major metropolitan regions.

The two solitudes issue could be addressed within the scope of this reform as well. Quebec could still exist, refashioned into an "autonomous region" while the ROC is split up into the district system.

[Truenorth00]

People think the feds do too much. I understand where that sentiment comes from. But it's pretty ridiculous to have 13 different subnational governments with substantial powers for a population of 40M. Does it really help us to have 13 different sets of rules for everything from finance to building codes to trades licensing? Heck, we can't have a single national securities regulator in this country.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm not worried at all.

1) Reneging on current commitments is exceptionally rare and unlikely to be done, simply because it would cause chaos for the business community (which the CPC cares about) and investment uncertainty. At worst, they'll avoid committing to new projects. But that's a long time away.

2) Neither the federal or provincial governments have anything to do with 15 min cities. Not once has Poilievre complained about zoning liberalization. And he's said he'll make transit funding conditional on cities doing so. I don't see how one can be against 15 min cities and support higher density and looser zoning at the same time.

3) Ontario is budgeting $7B per year through to 2033. If they have to spend $8B because of Poilievre or stretch the schedule to 2034, it's not the end of the world. Shows what a provincial government focused on building transit can do.

Current projects are safe (but we do have the example of Mike Harris to know they are not completely safe) the Transit winter will come with lack of federal support for future projects.

Even the Trudeau government doesn't support every transit project brought to them, such as the Hurontario LRT line and the Gatineau LRT but they have let the money flow several levels above any other federal government.

Poilievre has already said he will withhold funding if cities don't do as he wants so I can easily see that this will include transit money.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Nite

Current projects are safe (but we do have the example of Mike Harris to know they are not completely safe) the Transit winter will come with lack of federal support for future projects.

Even the Trudeau government doesn't support every transit project brought to them, such as the Hurontario LRT line and the Gatineau LRT but they have let the money flow several levels above any other federal government.

Poilievre has already said he will withhold funding if cities don't do as he wants so I can easily see that this will include transit money.

This is classic FUD.

But we're now at the point where the Ford government is entertaining the idea of spending $2B on a tunnel along Main St in Brampton just to appease wealthy NIMBYs just to win a few votes. I'm not sure a "Transit Winter" is necessarily a bad idea beyond the current slate of projects when we're at this point. Though, like I said, when the province is spending $7B/yr, federal spending is not setting the agenda. Federal spending could be zero and $7B/yr would still be significant enough that there will be no "Transit Winter".

[craner]

Originally Posted by Nite

Again here is the money the Trudeau government has spent on transit funding in Canada to enable the greatest transit expansion in Canadian history:

Ontario Line (4.0 billion from the Trudeau government)
Eglinton Crosstown West Extension (1.9 Billion from the Trudeau government)
Yonge North Subway Extension (2.2 Billion from the Trudeau government)
Scarborough Subway Extension (2.3 Billion from the Trudeau government)
Vancouver Langley Skytrain Extension (1.3 Billion from the Trudeau government)
Vancouver Broadway Subway Extension (0.9 Billion from the Trudeau government)
Montreal REM (Réseau express métropolitain) (1.3 billion from the Trudeau government)
Montreal Blue Line expansion (1.3 billion from the Trudeau government)
Calgary Green Line LRT (1.5 billion from the Trudeau government)
Edmonton Valley Line West LRT (1.0 billion from the Trudeau government)
Quebec City Tramway (1.2 billion from the Trudeau government)
Winnipeg Transit Projects (0.5 Billion from the Trudeau government)
Kitchener-Waterloo ION Rapid Transit (1.1 Billion from the Trudeau government)
Hamilton LRT (1.7 Billion from the Trudeau government)
Mississauga Transit (0.7 Billion from the Trudeau government)

Just catching up here and wanted to clarify that the $1.5B Federal contribution to the Green Line in Calgary was committed by the Harper government in July 2015.

Makes me question if crediting the funding for all these other projects you’ve listed to the Trudeau government is legit.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by craner

Just catching up here and wanted to clarify that the $1.5M Federal contribution to the Green Line in Calgary was committed by the Harper government in July 2015.

Makes me question if crediting the funding for all these other projects you’ve listed to the Trudeau government is legit.

Same with the claim that the Trudeau government pitched in $1.1 billion for the KW Ion lrt. Never happened. By the time Trudeau took office, the ion LRT was well under construction. The Harper government gave $265 million in 2010.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

People think the feds do too much. I understand where that sentiment comes from. But it's pretty ridiculous to have 13 different subnational governments with substantial powers for a population of 40M. Does it really help us to have 13 different sets of rules for everything from finance to building codes to trades licensing? Heck, we can't have a single national securities regulator in this country.

Imagine if the Feds were in charge of building codes? There would be a team of 40 doing gender based analysis on drywall. There would be three years of indigenous consultations They would spend 100 million developing a building code app.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Imagine if the Feds were in charge of building codes? There would be a team of 40 doing gender based analysis on drywall. There would be three years of indigenous consultations They would spend 100 million developing a building code app.

You couldn't have picked a worse example. The feds do write national building standards. The provinces mostly copy-and-paste that. But then add their own little tweaks. Just enough to make it a hassle to work between provinces.

[ssiguy]

^^^^ Sad but true.

If I may add one more thing......he would hire a few thousand more civil servants to ensure that all "Trudeauville" tent cities are represented by all socio-economic groups, sexual & gender minorities, racial & ethnic groups, and new comers to the country.

Then he would put out to tender a 4 year review on which gov't connected business will win the contract for the Pride coloured blankets while ensuring they are owned and run by lesbian immigrants of colour.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Though, like I said, when the province is spending $7B/yr, federal spending is not setting the agenda. Federal spending could be zero and $7B/yr would still be significant enough that there will be no "Transit Winter".

Actually, if Poilievre does like Harper and chooses to transfer some GST to the provinces, Ontario could use this new Poilievre money to increase transit spending beyond $7B/year.

His “transit winter” schtick is fear-mongering bullshit.

Also, all his arguments are always about total, not per capita. That’s disingenuous. By his logic, Russia has more indoor plumbing than Norway. There’s a reason infrastructure is always looked at on a per capita basis — it’s what matters.

With 41 million people (and counting), it’s normal that we have more infrastructure than before — that alone does not suffice to constitute a success. Having more infrastructure per capita, now that would be something.

[Truenorth00]

Ontario. Spends $7B per year on transit development.

Federal Liberals: Commit to $3B per year nationally, of which Ontario is entitled to about $1.2B.

Apparently there will be a "Transit Winter" if the feds (under Poilievre) cut 15% of the combined federal-provincial funding spent on transit development in Ontario. Just imagine, Ontario might have to stretch out their existing plans over 12 years instead of a decade as currently planned. This is apparently "Transit Winter".

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Ontario. Spends $7B per year on transit development.

Federal Liberals: Commit to $3B per year nationally, of which Ontario is entitled to about $1.2B.

Apparently there will be a "Transit Winter" if the feds (under Poilievre) cut 15% of the combined federal-provincial funding spent on transit development in Ontario. Just imagine, Ontario might have to stretch out their existing plans over 12 years instead of a decade as currently planned. This is apparently "Transit Winter".

Sure your math in this case makes sense. But we don't live in magical unicorn land. There is no easy answer. Less spending means less for some people. The Liberals weren't spending for some evil purpose. Hopefully it can kick start some productivity and investment. But those gains are medium term.

I don't think we are as bad off so I think largely the natural return to mean for inflation and economic growth will return. Some marginal gains on housing will hopefully help. And lots of beneficiaries of government largess will have to tighten their belts. Tax cuts for those doing well which help growth again. How dramatic all that would be depends on how serious PP is about change. I tend to believe him for better or worse.

[casper]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Imagine if the Feds were in charge of building codes? There would be a team of 40 doing gender based analysis on drywall. There would be three years of indigenous consultations They would spend 100 million developing a building code app.

Actually we do have national electrical codes and building codes. That is the reason when you go into a hardware store you can buy an electrical fixture that is certified for installation in any province.

These codes are mostly written by NRC in combination with industry.

Every few year each province pass a low adopting the latest version with some local variations.

National standards are something the feds are good at. From building codes, to electrical to regulating drugs or autos.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Nite

Current projects are safe (but we do have the example of Mike Harris to know they are not completely safe) the Transit winter will come with lack of federal support for future projects.

Even the Trudeau government doesn't support every transit project brought to them, such as the Hurontario LRT line and the Gatineau LRT but they have let the money flow several levels above any other federal government.

Poilievre has already said he will withhold funding if cities don't do as he wants so I can easily see that this will include transit money.

What I am more concerned about is the National Infrastructure Bank. PP has said he wants to wind it down. That has been a major mechanism for financing green projects in Canada. Existing projects are not at risk. But these are the types of project we need:

https://cib-bic.ca/en/investments/

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Sure your math in this case makes sense. But we don't live in magical unicorn land. There is no easy answer. Less spending means less for some people. The Liberals weren't spending for some evil purpose. Hopefully it can kick start some productivity and investment. But those gains are medium term.

I don't think we are as bad off so I think largely the natural return to mean for inflation and economic growth will return. Some marginal gains on housing will hopefully help. And lots of beneficiaries of government largess will have to tighten their belts. Tax cuts for those doing well which help growth again. How dramatic all that would be depends on how serious PP is about change. I tend to believe him for better or worse.

It's not that I think the Liberal spending on transit was bad. I just think the idea that we'll have a "Transit Winter" in Ontario, if Poilievre is PM, is rather ridiculous. The majority of our transit spending is funded by the province and municipalities. And for the most part, our provincial government is committed to building this stuff regardless of federal support. They'll just finance it differently if they get less support. I doubt federal support goes to zero. But if it did, the current list of projects will just be spread over 12 years instead of 10 years.

That said $3B is less than 1% of the federal budget. It's actually a line item that is rather easy for Poilievre to maintain. He can just freeze it at $3B/yr and let inflation eat at it. He can reduce the current federal contribution to 20-30%. And as long as the feds put in a few dollars, the local MP still gets to go to the ribbon cutting, for something that will be more than 70% provincially and municipally funded.