Quote:
Originally Posted by Zassk
But it will be impossible for users to understand. We do not have such a complicated network. Your proposed train movement patterns make a simple network very, very complicated.
I see what you are trying to do: reduce transfers for downtown commuters. But in doing so, you are reducing frequencies on most lines, and/or making them less predictable. I would rather see one or two high-volume transfer points, with high frequencies on both of the intersecting lines.
Our network is already overly complicated with M-line trains looping around themselves. This will end in the near future. Evergreen will spell the end of the great M-line loop, and the train movements will finally become logical.
But Expo Line's terminus at Waterfront is the closest point to Hastings Street, and is even pointed in the correct direction to serve Hastings Street with a simple extension, and even has a reasonable right-of-way along the rail yard from Waterfront to at least Main Street.
Millennium is designed to serve Central Broadway.
You seem to be suggesting that more commuters need to reach Hastings than Central Broadway. That assertion seems far-fetched to me. Central Broadway is a very important corridor, and a worthy destination for Millennium Line.
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What I think Logan is getting at is having all of it. Extend M-Line to UBC, Extend Expo Line down Hastings, and then have a connecting spur between the extended M-Line and Waterfront.
This could result in a much simpler routing than what everyone so far has mentioned. You could still do all this with 3 lines.
1) Expo Line: Hastings St <-> King George (or further) via Waterfront.
2) Evergreen Line: Douglas <-> UBC
3) Millennium Line.
The Millennium line could be a line that runs in full loops. Trains could travel Waterfront -> Broadway -> Columbia -> Lougheed -> Commercial -> Waterfront. Then repeat the figure 8 loop. Then other trains would run the loop in reverse full time. This would mean that trains serving the M-Line don't need to turn around anywhere in the middle of other lines. The M-line trains don't need to be dedicated either, when they reach Waterfront they could be shifted to Expo Line service to King George depending on scheduling or demand.
Yes it is more complicated in that riders need to figure out which lines are which and which go where, but it does offer some advantages over turning trains around (riders coming in from Lougheed could single seat ride to Burrard, Granville or even Stadium if desired). Something like this might be required in the future.
Demand into downtown is high, and it is getting higher. Expo line as it is is packed in the AM rush entering downtown, and transfers from the Millennium line to the Expo line can be difficult (to put it mildly). Once the Evergreen line built, there will be more people trying to make the transfer, along with ever increasing Expo Line users. In the near future, making the transfer at Commercial Broadway could be near impossible in the AM peak.
Extending the Millennium line past the Canada Line would be a great help to this. Travelers on the Evergreen line would have 2 options for getting into downtown, depending on where they are going.
But even that possibility might be short lived. The Canada Line is busy today. Even with planned service increases and longer trains/platforms, it might be difficult for the Canada Line to keep up with the crush loads, without having to deal with passengers being dumped off at City Hall. It will work for a while, but eventually it is possible that travel from the east into downtown (the only direction the city is expanding in) could be so great another way in may be needed.
I would agree with the sentiment that the priority should be extending to UBC from the existing track. UBC and the Broadway business district is a top regional destination and could benefit from further densification that Skytrain can bring. This is a fantasy for a world where travel into Downtown ever increases as the regional population grows. Like Logan theorizes, a short connection from around VCC-Clark to Waterfront could be required as a relief line into downtown at a rather affordable price. If Evergreen riders don't have to transfer at Commercial Broadway to get Downtown, it can offer some relief to a sure to be crowded Expo Line, and encourage further Evergreen ridership and growth around its stations. Its not without its problems (like regarding frequency on the Broadway line) but it is one of the better theories about handling Expo Line capacity into downtown from the East that I've heard.
An additional benefit of the connector would be its proximity to the Rail Station. In the future it could be a major transportation hub, with high speed trains departing and arriving from the USA. The station might also be used for SOF commuter rail trains that reach out into the Valley. Having another Skytrain station, even closer to the terminal, might benefit travelers in and out of the city.
To further this Fantasy, I would say you also need a Hastings line. At least a short one through the DTES (preferably at least as far as Hastings Park or even under Burrard Inlet to the North Shore). That way you have a line that Expo Line trains can turn around on without conflicting with incoming Millennium line trains. It would be too many movements in one area if trains turned around near Waterfront. It would also go a long way to encourage growth and gentrification in the DTES and East Van if the line extended through Gastown and down Hastings a ways.
Of coarse there are a lot of other things to do first, like improve transit SoF, Broadway Line, increase capacity on major Vancouver bus lines with high capacity trams, but one day the need might come for some Expo line relief or a DTES catalyst, and this could be a rather simple solution.
And to address deasine concerns, this could create a real meshwork of lines through a large section of relatively under developed downtown real estate, providing the potential for an even denser downtown to expand Eastward, to Strathcona and the False Creek Flats.
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