LRT Stage 3

[J.OT13]

Best way to serve Kanata would be to build transit on the current planned route (rial or buses, wherever) and have a 10-minute frequency bus loop using bus lanes (could be automated) go around the entirety of Kanata using Hazeldean-Eagleson/March-Terry-Fox. For this to work, a transit station would need to be AT Terry Fox, and not a half kilometer away.

Similar concept should be considered for Barrhaven and Orleans, though it would be tougher due to the overall size and shape of those communities. I guess you could do Jeanne d'Arc, Tenth Line, Innes in Orleans and Fallowfield, Strandheard, Woodroffe in Barrhaven.

These don't cover everything, but better than the current Downtown-bound only system.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Best way to serve Kanata would be to build transit on the current planned route (rial or buses, wherever) and have a 10-minute frequency bus loop using bus lanes (could be automated) go around the entirety of Kanata using Hazeldean-Eagleson/March-Terry-Fox. For this to work, a transit station would need to be AT Terry Fox, and not a half kilometer away.

Similar concept should be considered for Barrhaven and Orleans, though it would be tougher due to the overall size and shape of those communities. I guess you could do Jeanne d'Arc, Tenth Line, Innes in Orleans and Fallowfield, Strandheard, Woodroffe in Barrhaven.

These don't cover everything, but better than the current Downtown-bound only system.

I have suggested two way bus loops connected to rail stations in the past, and is something I believe has been implemented in Calgary extensively and also allows for offsetting departures. 30 minute frequency can have departures every 15 minutes from the rail station in alternating directions serving the same general neighbourhood or neighbourhoods. I believe many people will often choose the longer direction on the loop rather waiting another 15 minutes at the rail station. It is the waiting that most people hate about transferring.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have suggested two way bus loops connected to rail stations in the past, and is something I believe has been implemented in Calgary extensively and also allows for offsetting departures. 30 minute frequency can have departures every 15 minutes from the rail station in alternating directions serving the same general neighbourhood or neighbourhoods. I believe many people will often choose the longer direction on the loop rather waiting another 15 minutes at the rail station. It is the waiting that most people hate about transferring.

That could work well. Currently, service is 30 minutes outside rush hour in the suburbs. Depending on where one lives along the loop, they could easily take either direction, whichever comes first, without using up much more time.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That could work well. Currently, service is 30 minutes outside rush hour in the suburbs. Depending on where one lives along the loop, they could easily take either direction, whichever comes first, without using up much more time.

Have we not gone down to 30 minute frequency to many neighbourhoods even during peak periods? This is one of the reasons for people abandoning transit. Outgoing transfers at rail stations have become abysmal in many cases. Nobody wants to wait 28 or 29 minutes and if that only happens a few times, chances are you have lost the customer. With continuing train failures, even the minor ones, it is hard to reliably plan a transfer to the local bus. I heard there was another dead train on the tracks in the last day.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Have we not gone down to 30 minute frequency to many neighbourhoods even during peak periods? This is one of the reasons for people abandoning transit. Outgoing transfers at rail stations have become abysmal in many cases. Nobody wants to wait 28 or 29 minutes and if that only happens a few times, chances are you have lost the customer. With continuing train failures, even the minor ones, it is hard to reliably plan a transfer to the local bus. I heard there was another dead train on the tracks in the last day.

Yup. Delays this morning. We got on the train. A double, but it was packed. Conductor made two announcements about a dead train (didn't get where it was) and let us know there's was an R1 Express available. Wife and I got out, and the train left 20 seconds later. Bus, a packed 40-footer, came 10 or 15 minutes later, and was stuck in rush hour traffic. Not much of an "express".

Yesterday we drove to the office just before 9am, and it took us over an hour. Traffic was ridiculous. Would have been better to drive today and transit yesterday, not the other way around.

[Spoonsy]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

Did you live in GC or Katimavik? I grew up in GC and remember the old 97 that you had to catch at the Town Centre to get downtown. I had moved away by the time the 96 had such a convenient route through K-Town.

GC many long walks in my early teens to the kanata town centre to get to bayshore or beyond!

I guess eventually Stittsville had grown enough that we started getting the occasional 97A coming up Castlefrank/Hazeldean and heading to Stittsville Main St and back - can't remember frequency, could've been just peak periods or maybe once an hour...

I think around 2004-2006 they changed the route number from 97 to 96 and the Stittsville 96A was upgraded to something like every half an hour, might've been around the same time they built the Terry Fox Station at Centrum and replaced Kanata Town Centre as the terminus. Once Terry Fox Stn was built you could also gamble and try to get a 118 (now 88 I think, the Baseline/Gonq milk run) from the Tim Wendy's to Centrum and try and snag a regular 96 from there instead.

Nostalgia!

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Have we not gone down to 30 minute frequency to many neighbourhoods even during peak periods? This is one of the reasons for people abandoning transit. Outgoing transfers at rail stations have become abysmal in many cases. Nobody wants to wait 28 or 29 minutes and if that only happens a few times, chances are you have lost the customer. With continuing train failures, even the minor ones, it is hard to reliably plan a transfer to the local bus. I heard there was another dead train on the tracks in the last day.

I am an infrequent user so could be wrong but there seems to be so much padding of the schedule maybe in an effort to avoid late busses? When you get to the LRT end points especially Tunney's there are reams of idling busses and you wait 15 or 20 minutes for your bus to finally pull around. This might improve the ontime performance of these busses that start there but the cost seems much worse. Especially frustrating when you are going relatively close to the LRT endpoint so the delay really kills any competitiveness with previous busses, an uber, walking, crawling sometimes.

[roger1818]

The problem with the branches to Kanata North is they run along the perimeter of the business park, so don't really serve it very well (the vast majority would have to transfer to a bus anyway). Beyond that, the density is very low with few TOD opportunities.

While I get that running along a highway has its problems, at least the corridor (up to Terry Fox) already has significant density and there is a significant amount of TOD opportunity. It is also a much more central, so people from all parts of Kanata/Stittsville can easily get to the stations. I estimate that the northern route would be worse for about 80-90% of the Kanata/Stittsville's population.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Agreed. I sincerely hope Eagleson and Fallowfield at the bare minimum start after Stage 2 opens.

They need to stop with the equal development nonsense. It is better value to build till at least till Strandherd (if not Marketplace) if going to Barrhaven than it is to continue past Eagleson in Kanata. There's also already a mostly grade separated corridor. It would be foolish not to use it. That's not the same case in Kanata.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

They need to stop with the equal development nonsense. It is better value to build till at least till Strangers (if not Marketplace) if going to Barrhaven than it is to continue past Eagleson in Kanata. There's also already a mostly grade separated corridor. It would be foolish not to use it. That's not the same case in Kanata.

One could make the opposite argument. Barrhaven already has a functional transit corridor. Does it need to be converted, causing years of detours, headaches and Billions of dollars for an unneeded capacity improvement? In Kanata, there is no corridor, so building something is better than the status quo, and if we're starting from zero, might as well go rail right off the bat.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

One could make the opposite argument. Barrhaven already has a functional transit corridor. Does it need to be converted, causing years of detours, headaches and Billions of dollars for an unneeded capacity improvement? In Kanata, there is no corridor, so building something is better than the status quo, and if we're starting from zero, might as well go rail right off the bat.

I get your point. But I'd argue the deadheading saved and the development potential alone justifies getting Strandherd. Looks at the mess the network becomes if every bus in Barrhaven has to terminate at Fallowfield. Much easier if it's Strandherd or Marketplace.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

They need to stop with the equal development nonsense. It is better value to build till at least till Strandherd (if not Marketplace) if going to Barrhaven than it is to continue past Eagleson in Kanata. There's also already a mostly grade separated corridor. It would be foolish not to use it. That's not the same case in Kanata.

Kanata has an unused, fully grade separated corridor between Eagleson and Terry Fox. When the Kanata Ave. overpass was built, they built a second overpass (on the other side of the off ramp) for a future Transitway. Similarly when they rebuilt the pedestrian overpass, it was extended to pass over a future Transitway.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Kanata has an unused, fully grade separated corridor between Eagleson and Terry Fox. When the Kanata Ave. overpass was built, they built a second overpass (on the other side of the off ramp) for a future Transitway. Similarly when they rebuilt the pedestrian overpass, it was extended to pass over a future Transitway.

Didn't know that. That should improve the business case for any extension.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Kanata has an unused, fully grade separated corridor between Eagleson and Terry Fox. When the Kanata Ave. overpass was built, they built a second overpass (on the other side of the off ramp) for a future Transitway. Similarly when they rebuilt the pedestrian overpass, it was extended to pass over a future Transitway.

Could you show us the streetview? Now I’m curious too.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Could you show us the streetview? Now I’m curious too.

It's under the street, so you can't see it on streetview however, you can see on the map that the Kanata Town Centre pedestrian bridge and Kanata Avenue Bridge span over a protected corridor.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ka...NWRq?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ka...NWRq?entry=ttu

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Could you show us the streetview? Now I’m curious too.

These extra spans are easily seen using Globe View mode of Google Maps:

[J.OT13]

Don't know how I didn't think of Global View mode.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Didn't know that. That should improve the business case for any extension.

That is why I have always said when extending to Eagleson, it is trivial to continue on to Terry Fox. This is shown in the EA as the Moodie to Terry Fox leg is the cheapest per km of all the Stage 3 legs.

[Richard Eade]

There are still a number of issues that need to be considered when extending Line 3 from Moodie to Terry Fox.

• Two track-sets needs to be squeezed between the LMSF and the 417.
• There needs to be grade separation over the existing rail line and MUP.
• The tracks need to get over ‘The Ridge’ – which might require a lot of rock excavation to make the track grade reasonable.
• There is a complicated grade separation required at March, and a new pedestrian overpass from the park & ride lots south of the interchange to the new train station on the north. (It might turn out cheaper to keep the line elevated from ‘The Ridge’ and go over March; but then, can it drop fast enough to go under the MUP bridge. I don’t know.)

Just because there are already a couple of quite old structures already in place, extending the line to Terry Fox is not a ‘cakewalk’. I also imagine that those old structures may need to be refurbished so that a 30-year maintenance agreement can be met.

[Spoonsy]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

now that weed is legal the teens of kanata can be convinced to give this back for transit use